I know my parents are toxic. But I wasn't prepared for this and I don't know what to do.

[kardashianklone]

I'm sorry, this is long. I've tried to put in paragraphs to make it a little less trying. I don't have a good relationship with my parents. Any relationship, really. Full on narcissistic mum and enabling dad who are very controlling, petty, spiteful and prone to temper tantrums. I try to have as little to do with them as possible because every single interaction is just horrible and upsetting and nothing positive ever comes from it. I have read 'Toxic Parent's by Susan Forward (amazing book) and they are textbook.

I have tried to tell them how I feel, they don't care or don't listen. And the cycle endlessly repeats itself. I have gone NC before, but them one or the other of them has some serious health related drama and as an only child I am expected to fix all of their problems. They also don't seem to notice when I go NC and just carry on, regardless. We had a horrible Christmas 2017 where they said terrible things (by text) and when I responded back it was just silence. They ignored it, waited a few months, then carried on.

Previous gems include telling me I was a mistake baby but they decided to 'love me in the end', and being told "you should look at yourself and ask what went wrong", that I am "no daughter of theirs" (because I wouldn't use my annual leave to go and run their business whilst they went on holiday), and when Mum faked a heart attack (she'd coughed a bit too hard and strained the muscles around her ribs) that it was my fault for not visiting them enough. Also Mum telling me that she will probably die soon and that again will be my fault.

Late last night, I had a text message out of the blue (they won't call me, email me, and only Dad text messages me. Mum won't answer the phone if I call and won't respond to any of my communications). The message said that this month is their anniversary month (they were married years before I was born), and if I "forget what this means to your mum and dad (he speaks in the 3rd person) we will never speak to you again so try to not be a selfish child. Dad". It's not a joke- that's how they talk. Emotional blackmail, passive aggressive, temper tantrums. The viewing me as a child, not an adult, so it's all about control, the setting ridiculous responses in overblown dramatic fashion...it's so exhausting and distressing.

So now I have a dilemma. On one hand...they've made it easy for me, I would happily never talk to them again. On the other hand, I could just send a card (as I do every year) but I know it won't be enough. It will be, why didn't you send a present, or visit us, or make our day special? (they don't do anything to celebrate it themselves). I also resent being 'forced' to send them a card because of a threat of 'or else'. Once, about 10 years ago, I did forget to send a card, and Mum refused to speak to me for 6 months, and when she did, she called me a slut. So, what should I do? Send a card, not send a card?

I would not give the aunt any attention here whatsoever by responding.

Right, OP, just stop communication with anyone in your life who might at some point have been asked by their parents, whether they know what is up with you, because said contact turned them all into flying monkey zombies. Totes the healthy 'getting my life back' reaction.

asked by your parents, obvs

Attila was right.

I texted my aunt, because I felt sorry for her and I do like her, and I hadn't wanted to go NC with her. Just said 'Sorry I missed your calls, very busy, hope you are well'. She messaged back and said 'Would love to meet you when I next pay a visit, could you meet for lunch? Your Mum is very stressed and not sleeping- worrying about you. Dad apparently spoke with your boyfriend recently and was v impressed'.

I find that quite weird. 1. Yeah...he spoke to my DP UNASKED and by STALKING him and calling him out of the blue to ask about me. It's not like I was formally introducing them and they were having a chat over tea and cakes. And 2. OF COURSE it is all about my mum and how she feels and how badly she is responding and how EVERYTHING IS ALL MY FAULT EVER.

That's really all I need to know. She is the center of all worlds.

Speechless. I don't know what to say to you. Surely there is no coming back from this; but I'd tell your Aunt the truth.

is your Aunt, by any chance, contacting you because of your parents wanting to know about how you are?

@crimsonhair well...yes...that's exactly why she's contacting me. I think we last spoke in late spring/early summer 2018. My parents have obviously told her to call me (hence the 'flying monkeys' comment). Which I understand, and is predictable and obvious, and I knew would be their next move. But it now puts me in the difficult position of having to explain to my Aunt. And also, they've clearly fed her a load of complete rubbish, which isn't 'my truth' at all.

I don't have any other family, so she is their one and only option.

be polite and not let that lunch to happen, she is sent to find out about you, she is on their side, despite of being nice and fluffy, she may be bullied by them, but that is not your problem to sort out.

OP - you did really well to not answer the phone TWICE.

Also being really alert to DA flying monkey status and how she will report verbatim back to your DPs shows how much insight you have and power you currently hold.

That long held, hard fought power and control over your own life dissipates the minute you engage with DA. Your DP are going down every cliched avenue to provoke and drag you back into punching distance. They are using your DA to do this.

At this time specifically it is really important to hold firm and not engage right now. Do not get into FOG regarding your DA. She is 100% doing as she is told by your DPs. Even if you contact her to say you will not discuss it with her you are still giving her something to bring back to your DPs - and then you can expect her to be sent back time and time again to you as they know they have a chink of light.

You need to decide how important DA is in your life. If she is peripheral and poses too much risk then drop communications.

However if she is very important to you and finally leaves you alone you right now, you could consider contacting her in a few weeks / months time if you want to and this is what you would normally do - eg birthday etc? But set firm boundaries upfront “calling for a general chat / I do not want to hear anything about DPs / I don’t want to know your opinion of the situation / I won’t be discussing or explaining the situation to you - so that topic is off limits / and I would appreciate that you do not share the content of this call or the fact that we have been in touch with them” But you will need to assume that she will tell them you have made contact and will share all content - so either just ask her about herself but do not give her any info at all about yours.

This is likely to be the toughest time, the phone calls at home, the phone calls to your DP work, the letter, the flying monkey.....you have done brilliantly to bat these away. You should feel proud and strong.

But be ready for them might doing all of these things again and then other avenues.

So keep vigilant and strong.

I’d be tempted to respond with

‘Lovely to hear from you and it would be great to meet up soon. I’m no longer in contact with my parents and as such I won’t be discussing this with anyone. I hope you’ll respect this and not bring them up in my company again. Looking forward to seeing you’

If she mentions them again simply ignore, if you do meet up please stress that she is not to invite your parents, if you think this may happen

Cross posts with you OP.

No more contact with DA right now - she is high risk.

She will have gone back to your DPs who will instruct her to get that lunch booked ASAP.

You need to reverse out of this one quickly.

I agree lunch is too much but I am still inclined to not automatically assume the worst about the aunt. I would use the opportunity to give out a strong 'everyting is fine, thanks' message. Probing questions could be deflected with 'to be honest, I really would rather not discuss it or get you involved, lets talk about xx instead'

What's the betting that the abusive parents would just happen to turn up to that lunch along with DAunt?

Sorry, but DAunt is definitely a flying monkey and I don't think you should be feeling sorry for her at all. You've clearly tried to talk to her in the past about how badly your parents have treated you, and she hasn't wanted to hear it. She would rather turn a blind eye to the abuse and pretend that everything in the world is fluffy and lovely. That's not a good person at all, and definitely not one that you can trust.

Sorry, but I think her number may be another one that you need to block. If she only contacts you once in a blue moon anyway, then hopefully this isn't a relationship you'll miss.

You are going to have to cut ties with your aunt now. She was never at all interested in what you have to say and remains well in your parents sphere of influence.

I don't get it? It's their anniversary not yours, I don't even know my parents anniversaries. I think they've misunderstood the day...

I would assume the worst about said aunt because their conversation turned very quickly to the subject of OPs parents.

The timing of these calls was no coincidence either. They could not get directly to the OP so went for what they perceive as the weaker link to her i.e. her partner. When that did not work as planned OPs mother used her sister, a relative who is probably very nice but gets something out of a relationship with her toxic sister and therefore easier to manipulate.

Flying monkeys do not want to hear the other wide of the story here so their opinion should be roundly ignored.

People are going to see what they want to see. If they’re believing in the narcissist, the naive just don’t get it. They just don’t see it and you trying to convince them of the truth is not going to help.

Can you just say "Of course it would be lovely to see you but I am extremely busy at the moment. Let me know when you are next coming this way and I will see if I can make any time."

Do not respond to or mention anything to do with your parents.
Do not offer a firm commitment.

I wonder if there should be concern that if you were to meet your aunt for lunch that your parents would turn up?

I read this response to family members who don't really understand what's happening on another thread which might be helpful.

Is that what she/he is saying about me these days? I guess it might be worth following this sentence up with saying that you are no longer bothered by what they say or do.

I know you felt sorry for your aunt so it was great that you managed to give yourself some space and time to decide on how to handle this new development. That's a real positive way forward. Eventually all your choices will be about what you want to do rather than what you feel you should do.

In fact, I would add to my text:

"All very well here, thanks. Of course it would be lovely to see you but I am extremely busy at the moment. Let me know when you are next coming this way and I will see if I can make any time."

to make sure she can relay that you are A-OK and nothing to worry about and that is ALL she can relay.

“hi Aunt. I am no longer in contact with them after years of their abuse to me. I don’t want to discuss this at all with anyone. Hope you can respect my wishes and we can keep in touch in the future”

Then block your aunts number on your phones so she can’t be used to get to you. At least in the short term while your parents are in ‘attack mode’

In terms of your social media presence for work, again can you block your parents from viewing it?

Something you could ask your flying monkey aunt if you were to further engage with her (I would not further open this pandoras box):-

"Why are Nmom's problems more important than anyone else's?"
"Don't you think we should be concerned about plastic in the oceans, world peace, Donald trump etc?."

"Since you know Nmom and dad abuse me, are you asking me to return to an abusive relationship? Do you think that is healthy for me? Don't you want me to be free from people who treat me badly? Wouldn't it be better to spend your efforts convincing them to treat me better?"

"Don't you think it would be healthier for me to be free of people who criticize, demean or belittle me, even if that person is related to me?"

"Don't I deserve the same respect and treatment than Nmom does?" (If not, then why?)

"Why are you expressing concern about NMom's unhappiness now, but never have expressed concern about how I have been treated all these years? Why have you never spoken up about how I was treated when X happened?"

"You do realize that forgiveness isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card, it is only given to people who have expressed that they are truly sorry for their actions. Is my mother prepared to freely and readily admit she was wrong and make amends for her actions?" (If they say no, "you know she will never do that", then why should I forgive her?)

"Lovely to hear from you and it would be great to meet up soon. I’m no longer in contact with my parents and as such I won’t be discussing this with anyone. I hope you’ll respect this and not bring them up in my company again. Looking forward to seeing you"

^^ What BeefStew says is perfect. There is no need to go into details (ie mention the abuse) with Aunt. It will be relayed to your DP and result in them giving her an earful about you, which she will want to relay to you to hear your 'defense' which she will relay to them, ad infinitum. Much better if all she can say is "Klone just says she isn't speaking to you, she didn't/won't say why". Dead end.

IF you do decide you'd like to see her/maintain a relationship with her, it needs to be at your home. Anywhere else and you risk your parents showing up. Even if you tell her that mustn't happen, it probably will. Aunt can't control them anymore than you could before you broke free.

but DA only maintains contact if she is to tell OP's parents about her!

DA is not an ally or friend! she is a spy (and easier to think of her fluffiness as a disguise to her job) and her absence from OP's life is a positive, so no friendly messages just acknowledgement and in a few days time without any obligation as in "let's meet for lunch"

Don't mention your parents to your aunt, unless you want what you say relayed back. Just be bright and breezy "all fine thanks, would be great to see you but I'm a bit busy, I'll be in touch and hopefully we can arrange something". Anything else is feeding the drama. If you meet her at a later stage, try not to get drawn into the whys and wherefores. I've been in this exact situation and there's no point engaging, there really isn't, you just look mad and your parents get the satisfaction of having riled you.

Beefstew's response is perfect.

if she does bring them up, then you could say calmly (calm is the key here) that there are two sides to every story and you don't wish to discuss it any more. If she carries on then "Aunt, I really don't want to discuss this" and if she then keeps on going "Aunt, it's better if we speak soon again about other things, but it's better if I go now". Remember, she might be bringing it up out of mistaken kindness but she is being impolite in not respecting your very clearly stated wishes.

Op, what does the "or else" mean to you? If it has no bearing or consequence on your life whether you see or speak to them again, then frankly, they deserve nothing more than stone cold silence.