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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another man whingeing about his sexless marriage

186 replies

ArthurKing · 22/07/2018 23:07

Good Evening,
Would appreciate a different perspective on an issue that has been going on for some time in my marriage.
Been married for 22 years, 3 kids, one with special needs and chronic health problems, oldest is 18, youngest is 14.
Basically my wife and I haven't had any intimacy since she learn't she was pregnant with our youngest. When I say intimacy I mean no sex, no proper kissing (I get that kind of duck faced peck you normally get from an ageing female relative), cuddling or hand holding. Yes I have tried to talk about it, she shuts me down and storms out of the room. I haven't had an affair, I didn't and don't take her for granted and I defy anyone to tell me I don't do my share around the house, particularly with our son, I get up at 5:30 every morning to deal with his feeding pump, change him and put him back down then up again at 7 to put his feed on, get him ready for school and give him his breakfast. I organise "date nights" and all the holidays, liaise with the hospital and the school and do all the driving and see to him when I get home from work.
I will be honest, I am not attracted to my wife any more, I have been knocked back so many times I feel like my role was provider only (kids, money etc). My wife asked what I wanted for my 50th, I said nothing, just you, she walked off and didn't speak to me for a week. If I leave it will mean leaving my family and losing everything I have worked so hard for when I have done nothing wrong. All I want to know is why? I know my wife isn't having an affair, its like she came into our marriage with a plan that had noting to do with me, only what I could provide and once she got it she switched off, we were a great team once. If there was some underlying issue, even if it was she finds me repulsive, I'm sure we could work something out. Any kind of insight would be helpful, really just want closure. Thanks Arthur

OP posts:
ArthurKing · 24/07/2018 07:33

Helen, I only joined MN on Friday. Could it possibly be there are 2 men of a similar age in a similar situation in the entire country?

OP posts:
ravenmum · 24/07/2018 07:51

When I read your title I thought it was not quite right, as there have been several men lately bemoaning their situation, but not all sexless I don't think. What they have had in common is that they all underlined what good, dutiful husbands they were, and that they didn't want to split up because they felt that image would be shattered.

Kingkiller · 24/07/2018 08:28

If men come on MN with this problem and don't immediately make it clear that they pull their weight at home, they are greeted by a barrage of "Well you're not saying what you contribute in terms of support, childcare and housework! Your wife is probably rightfully resentful!". Whereas apparently if they do make this clear, they are showing off about their dutifulness.

Also, the OP said he was reluctant to leave because he didn't want to lose his home and family. Not because he wanted to maintain his image as a dutiful husband.

There are plenty of entitled, selfish arseholes out there, but nothing about this OP gives the impresdion he's one of them imo.

Maidsrus · 24/07/2018 08:57

I agree with king you sound like one of the good guys. But you deserve better.

Get your ducks in a row. What are your practical options? Could your wife do the daytime caring if you were to leave the home? Could you still do the morning caring before work if you lived nearby? What benefits would she get if she stayed in the marital home? Or could you live together as caring partners but separate as a couple - sounds like that’s what you have anyway.

You need to put your foot down though - not about sex but either to get some counselling to improve your marriage, or separate. There is a better life for you, and you deserve it Flowers

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 24/07/2018 09:25

ravenmum

I think when men come on here seeking advice they have to make it explicitly clear what their contribution is to the relationship and household is or risk getting shot down on the first page. Even then you get certain posters who will bend over backwards to deliberately misinterpret the OPs testimony in order to find fault and blame.

LadysFingers · 24/07/2018 09:41

Maidsrus

There is another option, the wife could say that she would prefer to leave and OP can care full time for DS - she has had enough of caring for other people, wants to go and live in a flat by herself, work in her career as a nurse and be by herself! OP could have to give up work and live on benefits, as a full time carer? Look on the SEN boards - lots of mothers have to give up work, because they can't cope with caring full time (all the appointments, the meetings, the correspondence....) and working!

MO, OP needs to improve communication, emotional connection and empathy with his wife. Not once, has he ever looked at the situation from her point of view (except to be contemptuous). Even when those of us, who are full time carers to sn DC have pointed out that she may be all touched out by bedtime, has he taken that on board - he went on to say that he is a not bad looking guy!

Its like going into a restaurant when you are starving hungry, and they put on a fashion parade. You say, I need food and they say, but look these are clothes by Christian Dior!

ArthurKing · 24/07/2018 10:13

Point out where I said I'm a good looking guy? I said I'm in not bad condition for my age and I said that to preempt comments I have seen on other threads in response to similar queries such as "Have you let yourself go OP?" "Have you stopped trying?" "Do you smell?" If you want to know I think I'm very average looking.

OP posts:
FuckMeIsThatEarlGrey · 24/07/2018 10:22

Arthur, I just want to say again that I think you sound like you do a fantastic job in a really f*ing difficult situation..

I'm not surprised you're angry. I'd say let yourself be.
(And it's great that the anger isn't directed to your wife, who's also likely struggling). I hope your wife will talk to you more soon. Other than that, I don't have advice. I just want to sympathise and say: shout away here, if you feel like it.

Branleuse · 24/07/2018 10:43

I like that tantric article. Very interesting and insightful

User183737 · 24/07/2018 10:46

You need to leave.
One point though-in her situation i would see date nights as another form of work which i wanted to get over and done with as soon as possible. It would lessen, rather than increase, the chances of intimacy.

itshappened · 24/07/2018 15:19

I have read this, and it really resonated with me, as i watched my parent's marriage disintegrate into a sexless, loveless marriage as i grew up. My parents stayed together for the sake of the family and home, but I know how desperately sad and lonely it made my dad over the years. We did not have a sibling with SN though. Also my mum seemed bitter about the life she had found herself in and almost used sex and affection as a power game as she withdrew from the relationship with my father; whereas your wife has seemingly stepped back from her emotional life as a consequence of the stress and strain of having a poorly child, so the reasons are more understandable.

However, the outcome is not that different... my parents were married for 40 years, with probably 30 of them being sexless, sleeping in different bedrooms etc. Neither of them were happy, and us as children were aware of it and at times actively encouraged them to separate. Sometimes they hardly spoke to each other, other times they had ferocious arguments, but then they also they did on occasion seem to enjoy each others company and our family life. But as far as i was aware, my father craved having a proper relationship with my mum, whilst he did what he thought was the honourable thing and stayed and was in fact our primary carer a lot of the time. She however, seemed incapable of really allowing herself to love him or be intimate with him. Whilst I believe my mum initiated the problems in their relationship for reasons I don't think I'll ever truly understand, in the final years of their marriage I saw my father start to change... after all the loveless years together, I think he snapped and the resentment built until he drank too much, made snidey comments, was impatient and inconsiderate to my mum, lost his job, forced my mum to be the primary bread winner and was even cruel at times to me with the things he said. I actually felt sorry for my mum and struggled with this change in him. In fact once we had all left home, I honestly think they hated each other but felt too old to start again, and I hated watching it so visited less frequently.

Then my dad got ill... and during his illness, i was so surprised but my parents found each other again. My mum cared for him, they talked for hours, they laughed and cried together, held his hand, kissed... it was so beautiful and tragic at the same time. When he died, I think they were more in love than they'd ever been. I'm sharing this with you, as I guess what I'm trying to say that you need to make some big decisions before its too late, but that it is possible to repair a relationship like yours. Just don't leave it until you don't have time to enjoy your life together again.

Your wife as other people have highlighted, needs to find a way of dealing with her grief around your son. I think therapy and potentially antidepressants might be a good start. But in the meantime, I think you need to leave or decide that you will no longer allow yourself to feel bitter and instead be positive and work hard to try and rebuild your friendship... maybe a way to start would be to do things outside of your usual responsibilities, to try and brighten up her day. Maybe a bunch of flowers, vouchers for a spa day, a lie in, breakfast in bed; share funny stories about your day, leave notes around the house telling her how much you appreciate her and everything she does for your family, buy her favourite biscuits or wine, tell her about a boxset / tv show you'd like to watch with her so you have something to talk about etc. Do all this without expecting anything back. And don't stop. Be persistent, even if it feels futile in the beginning. I think slowly but surely she might actually start to look forward to reading your notes, the massage you've booked for her, the book you've bought her to read because you think she might like it etc. Think small gestures, not big over the top things which will make her feel pressurised. Try to bring some joy and happiness into the home. Would a pet be conceivable around your son? I have found animals a wonderful way to bring light into a sad home. If you want to save your marriage, then you are going to have to fight for it. But if you find your friendship again, I think your wife might start to engage with you again, and hopefully it might bring some affection back to your relationship. Patience will be needed, but you've been patient for 14 years, so you know you can wait a bit longer for the sake of rebuilding your marriage one step at a time.

HelenaDove · 24/07/2018 15:24

Arthur the guy that posted 7 years ago had 3 kids and had had no intimacy with his wife for 7 years so now it would be 14......thats why i asked.

When a woman posts about the same situation on here she doesnt get asked about if she pulls her weight in the home but she does get asked if shes put ON weight Every Time. so yep double standards.

Ive been in my situation for 22 years so much longer than you. And yes my appearance did change I LOST ten stone No one advises you to put it back on though Funny that. It made no differance DH has always had a low libido. 1996 was the last time we were intimate. In 2003 i hit 30 and id lost ten stone and had an affair with a work colleugue which lasted 4 and a half years. which brings me to my next double standard. You are being advised to find someone else even if its behind your wifes back. I got absolutely fucking roasted on here for my previous affair and going on a "date" back in 2014 despite the fact that in 2014 DH had agreed to open if thats what i wanted Double standards indeed.

Like you Arthur i never got hugs either. And i am now a full time carer. DH had a heart attack in 2006 which left him with disabilities including COPD He has to use a mobility scooter Hes 68 im 45.

I also feel im better off where i am DH is not a bad man at all..........just not a touchy feely person........his words. Reading the dating threads on here...........ugh too much hassle and too many expectations.

Somebody suggested you post on reddit. Before you do have a look for my username on there and the way they take the piss over DHS mobility scooter. Our HA threatened to take it and destroy it and they took the piss and said i was talking bollocks despite me having screen shots. Im not a Reddit poster or member i found my user name on there after i searched on a hunch. They might be a bit more sympathetic with you though as its your child with disbilities and not your spouse. There are some nice posters over there but there are some fucking snide ones as well.

Arthur i also did the crying myself to sleep at night. I dont now I get a bit wistful sometimes thats all. a read of the dating threads on here and all the hassle i see them go through soon sorts that out.

Good luck I hope you find a solution.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 24/07/2018 15:34

Oh poor OP it sounds a terrible situation to be in. A bad relationship that is hard to get out of is like a mental prison.

You need to leave for your own sanity. Yes it will take out a while to iron out things with your DC but it’ll be worth it because the way you’re living now is no way to live.

And ignore the blamey posters. The automatic assumption when men post such things is that they’re lazy around the house (which is often the case) so you were just covering your back.

Good luck Flowers

Purpleisthenewblue1 · 24/07/2018 15:34

Find a lady who loves you with a nice house, job done.

LadysFingers · 24/07/2018 16:36

OP - you said on page 2:

"I don't think I'm a bad looking guy for my age (but I guess that's not for me to say), I look after myself, I do yoga and martial arts but I'm not looking for anyone else."

I don't know what is going on with your wife! She could as pp have said, be suffering from any of:

  1. ptsd after a bad birth
  2. hormonal problems
  3. chronic fatigue due to undiagnosed ME, diabetes, anaemia, vitamin deficiencies, under-active thyroid gland, etc
  4. low libido
  5. compassion fatigue....

However, you asked for advice from a woman's perspective; I have been a carer to sn DC and I have listened to countless parents of disabled children, although mainly women talking about their situation - none of them have been perfectly happy, because the grief of wishing DC was "normal" is lifelong! If they talked about the strain on their marriage, talk about DH being a good provider or his looks never came into it!

ravenmum · 24/07/2018 16:50

I think when men come on here seeking advice they have to make it explicitly clear what their contribution is to the relationship and household is or risk getting shot down on the first page.
You're right, that's true. In fact, thinking about it, it's not just on Mumsnet, is it? It's the male/female clichés: women are supposed to be gentle, kind, sensitive, family-oriented, weaker and emotional (and thus more likely to be victims) while men are meant to be bigger, stronger, tough, unable to express themselves and focused on their work (and more likely to be aggressors). So we have to stress how feisty (yuck) we are, while men have to stress how harmless and family-loving they are.

As I mentioned on another thread, when I read these stories I think of my nice stepdad and how I'd understand if he wanted to leave my mother - it will never happen, though. It's sad to think of these men who won't even consider separation because of some sense of duty or not wanting to be thought of as a bastard.

LadysFingers · 24/07/2018 17:32

ravenmum - it works both ways. Some women end up in a sexless marriage for years, because their DH is too embarrassed to seek help for ED!

SomeKnobend · 24/07/2018 17:34

You told her you were going to get sex elsewhere? How did you think that would make her feel? Why did you say it. You said it was an "empty threat" - what kind of arsehole makes a "threat" about getting sex elsewhere because their wife doesn't want to have sex? What did you hope to achieve, that she would open her legs and say "good point, come on then, lets go" or "Oooh, I love a good threat, I'm in the mood now"?

You go on about how she owes you an explanation for not wanting sex anymore, but you don't fancy her, don't want sex with her, see her as someone who uses you as a "provider" of money, but don't appreciate her as provider of care for the children and household and until last year income as well from her nursing job. You seem to just see her as the woman who should be having sex with me but isn't, and isn't even explaining why or being apologetic about it.

She doesn't owe you an explanation. But if you want one, she obviously doesn't feel very sexual. You don't enjoy the kisses she does give you, why would she feel like giving you more? She feels as rejected as you do. She knows you don't find her attractive, she doesn't want sex and doesn't want to be a wank vessel for youwhile you think about someone you do want to have sex with. You have told her you would find sex elsewhere which is a cruel and unnecessary rejection.

If you want out after so many years of no sex get out, leave. How fucking dare you stay in the marriage you have told her you have no intention of respecting just so you don't lose out financially or in terms of quality of housing, and at the same time think of her as being the one using you.

SpeckledDot · 24/07/2018 17:49

ArthurKing it sounds like it might be time to end the marriage.

Why would you have to end up in shared accommodation?

Anyway we all have to gown down before heading up. That is why people can be scared to break up. But with the right attitude, you'll end up on your feet. It's a risk you have to take, if you want more from life.

User183737 · 24/07/2018 17:58

Excellent post by knobend

mirialis · 24/07/2018 18:52

Excellent post by knobend

Have been trying to be gentle as it's Relationships and not AIBU but I largely concur.

Thing is, OP is going nowhere and neither is OP's wife.

There's been a lot of sympathy for someone who says "its like she came into our marriage with a plan that had noting to do with me, only what I could provide and once she got it she switched off" about a woman who has had to give up her professional nursing career (not something she can do with the SN 16 year-old son) due to stress.

OP will not leave.

AgathaF · 24/07/2018 18:57

Dreadful post by SomeKnobend.

HelenaDove · 24/07/2018 19:00

I really really dont think that OPS DW planned it at all.

Her plate of life has got a lot on it and there are bound to be some bits that drop off onto the tablecloth.

I once said similar about DH because i was feeling hurt and confused and working through it in my head. But obvs DH didnt "plan" it either.

I think OP may possibly be doing the same..........working through it in his head while typing it on here.

As for "bait and switch" Horrible misogynistic term and never said about men.

mirialis · 24/07/2018 19:06

my wife gave up her nursing job due to stress about a year ago

My wife has every day to whatever she pleases from 8 until 3

mirialis · 24/07/2018 19:06

Sounds supportive???!