Another man whingeing about his sexless marriage

[ArthurKing]

Good Evening,
Would appreciate a different perspective on an issue that has been going on for some time in my marriage.
Been married for 22 years, 3 kids, one with special needs and chronic health problems, oldest is 18, youngest is 14.
Basically my wife and I haven't had any intimacy since she learn't she was pregnant with our youngest. When I say intimacy I mean no sex, no proper kissing (I get that kind of duck faced peck you normally get from an ageing female relative), cuddling or hand holding. Yes I have tried to talk about it, she shuts me down and storms out of the room. I haven't had an affair, I didn't and don't take her for granted and I defy anyone to tell me I don't do my share around the house, particularly with our son, I get up at 5:30 every morning to deal with his feeding pump, change him and put him back down then up again at 7 to put his feed on, get him ready for school and give him his breakfast. I organise "date nights" and all the holidays, liaise with the hospital and the school and do all the driving and see to him when I get home from work.
I will be honest, I am not attracted to my wife any more, I have been knocked back so many times I feel like my role was provider only (kids, money etc). My wife asked what I wanted for my 50th, I said nothing, just you, she walked off and didn't speak to me for a week. If I leave it will mean leaving my family and losing everything I have worked so hard for when I have done nothing wrong. All I want to know is why? I know my wife isn't having an affair, its like she came into our marriage with a plan that had noting to do with me, only what I could provide and once she got it she switched off, we were a great team once. If there was some underlying issue, even if it was she finds me repulsive, I'm sure we could work something out. Any kind of insight would be helpful, really just want closure. Thanks Arthur

Do you know what? I have absolutely no idea. Will ask her tonight.
Thanks for that Spaghettijumper!

You have an almost businesslike arrangement at the moment.

It sounds miserable. I wonder what your other DC see in your marriage. No affection ...no signs of love between you.

I understand how you feel used...because she was fine whenever she wanted to conceive.

I've seen other threads were women have admitted to be into sex before marriage to secure their man... and once kids came along...they longer engaged in a sexual relationship.

So it's not farfetched for you to feel used.

Honestly if you don't want to leave and your wife won't talk then reality is nothing will change. I have a friend whose in almost exactly the same situation ( however the children are early twenties still living at home). He won't leave either and he's so sad and lonely. I just can't understand why he stays to be fair neither he or the wife love each other and there's no intimacy at all. Soul destroying if you ask me. Changes could be made but neither will make the move because of splitting the assets. I'd rather live in a shack with nothing than be in a nothing relationship like that.

This isn't meant harshly at all - but do you think that if you did say 'I would really like a hug' she would think 'he wants sex'?

wow, I don't know how you stayed in that situation for so long tbh. If she won't even speak to you about it then I don't know what option you have if you ever want to be happy except leave

I think you guys need relationship therapy, or you need to say we need to talk but I don't want you to walk off or ignore me for a week afterwards

You said you go on date nights. So, say if you went to a restaurant together, had a glass of wine each, then just took her hand as you were walking out, do you think she would pull away, or go with it?

Maybe you've already tried that and maybe she's pulled away, but if not, perhaps give it a go. Start small, away from the home and don't go any further. Maybe she wonders why you're not affectionate to her?

I'm not blaming you in any way, just to be clear. I just wondered, since you said you didn't mention it for ten years (did I understand that right?), if it was something that has just gradually fallen out of her mind and if a few gentle and non-confrontational prompts might make her think about it again?

That sounds so hard. I imagine you feel very rejected. We had a problem with this (me!) after I had PTSD relating to childbirth injuries. I struggled to even discuss it as I was embarrassed and feeling unlovable. Thankfully we did keep talking and we are now a normal couple and I’m very glad we came out of it together.

I would say that mentally, although functioning well in other areas I was actually so afraid of sex that I needed my husband to (lovingly and gently) push the conversations. It took a lot of conversations before we could really address the underlying issues. I just wanted to put my head in the sand.

Sharing this in case it helps. Our problems only lasted two years but I can see how it could become more entrenched.

Don’t assume that your wife doesn’t love or find you attractive. It’s very likely more about her than you given what you have shared.

My husband helping me see I was utterly adored and cared for was the key for us. I dismissed his affections because I was afraid of pain and rejection deep down.

When I read your posts OP they do sound a bit like ‘I go to work, she does nothing in middle of day I help out at home I deserve more’
It’s easy for others to agree she used you as a supreme donor. I disagree with this. I don’t have a sn dc but my dd takes up a lot of my time. She makes mess that just didn’t exist before she was here. I no longer work because of stress. That’s not reusing to work that’s being unable to work. I hate being a sahm. I wish I could go back to work. Work was such a nice break from this. I am in my home 7 days a week and it feels like a prison. I resent my dh going off to work then wondering what I have done in my ‘spare time’
He doesn’t even notice I wasn’t stressed before dd. What’s causing my stress? Dd! Do I get a break? No. As a mother I care for my dd but I wish I felt good enough to go to work. If my dc had sn I imagine this is so much harder. Sex is probably the last thing on your dw agenda.
14 years is too long to go with no affection but that’s not all her fault is it OP even if you paint the picture of the hard done by spouse.

See a solicitor with an aim to see if there’s an arrangement you could come to that both of you are set free from this life of misery. I doubt many women stay for purely financial reasons, they may be too stressed to tired or just think their dh are going to fight to leave them with not much after years of contributing to the family home. Most people after 14 years would be just as unhappy. It does not appear from your posts either of you are happy.
Even now as the ‘victim’ you are too reluctant to make a decision as to what should be done. Only you can decide if you stay or go. No one else. You sound like you’ve stayed for the last 16 years whilst dw cares for sn dc. Sure you get up and help. So does my dh. That’s not bearing the brunt of all the organising involved in dc day to day lives. Your dw does that. It doesn’t come across as if you see it that way OP.

Sperm donor ! Unless you consider yourself otherwise

I think it's horrible that pp have suggested that your dw used you as a sperm donor and even mentioned 'bait and switch' which is a real mra mindset. We don't know you op but it is safe to assume that your wife loved you when she married you and envisioned a family life including love and sex. That is what most people assume when they embark on a relationship. But it has gone wrong for some reason, and the main problem is that your wife won't talk about it or try to fix it. Either she doesn't like sex, doesn't like you, or there is some other reason, medical, emotional, mental, who knows, your dw might not really know herself. But you can't live like this it's not fair. I mentioned earlier that my marriage is on it's last legs, and while I don't want to make this about me, I will just say that whenever we had our difficult periods I couldn't talk to my dh about it. I am not good at talking about my feelings, and I had so much resentment built up that I felt if I said anything i would explode and let out all the stuff that would devastate my dh and I would never be able to unsay. I was content enough to live as you do, no intimacy, just co parenting. It wasn't what I wanted, but I felt that it was better, less hurtful, to keep quiet. This may not be at all how your dw feels, I am just giving my perspective, and even if it is I think it's too late after 14 years to fix it. You have to tell her you have come to the end of the line, and you have to mean it. Could you write down how you feel, in a letter or an email, if you find it difficult to talk to her, that works for some people. As for the house, custody, that can all be sorted out, but you need to start living your life, for you.

You are clearly unhappy. You can still be a parent if you are divorced. Have the courage to leave, what are you waiting for ? Clearly nothing has changed after so many years.

You need to go to marriage counseling. Ask you gp to recommend someone really good for you both and keep going.

It’s the only thing you can do now. This is nobody’s fault, it just happened, but good marriage counseling could really help you both understand each other.

Your situation sounds desperately sad really, and you may be an even better parent if you have a fulfilling, happy personal life. It sounds as if you will only find this with someone else. Everyone deserves to be happy and sometimes that means making brave decisions to prioritise your own happiness. Sometimes it takes a real threat of losing the relationship to make the unwilling partner review their behaviour and make positive changes.

Oh dear OP, you are not really in this together are you?

You come across as self-pitying, resentful and contemptuous. You say that you don't find your wife attractive, have no real desire to re-establish a sex life with her, do not object to her being described as someone that used you (for sperm and money and practical 'help'), complain about the lack of physical intimacy but then say you don't want sex driven by duty etc. What do you want? Her to beg? After all, you work out/do martial arts?

Do you think that your level of contempt does it for your wife? Or is it just about what you want? You don't want to have sex with someone who loves you but is motivated by compassion but you expect your wife to have sex with someone who doesn't love them or even fancy them?

Why don't you separate but with you as the main carer - you'll be 'free' to work between 8-3 after all - then you won't lose your kids or house? Your wife can live in a bed sit (bliss to someone who has borne the responsibility of caring for so long), go back to work and maybe find a nice bloke who appreciates her? Maybe she will even find time to work out and care about teenage shit.

What were your opinions on a discreet affair op? Normally I would never condone this but you seem to have tried everything else and you are not prepared to leave your wife, despite the evidence of the past 14 years showing you that you are not compatible in a fundamental way.

Keepon what a nasty post, are you reading the same op, he doesn't expect his wife to have sex with him, it's been 14 years fgs. And as for contemptuous and resentful, no one else is picking up on that, so either the rest of us can't read, or you are projecting your own issues on here.

It sounds like communication has broken down entirely and that's horrible for both of you. Can you suggest counselling together? It provides a non-threatening setting for the conversation you want and she doesn't. It would be difficult for her to say no to it without admitting she didn't want to make the marriage work anymore, and at that point you have bigger problems. Good luck, I feel for you.

If she won't have a conversation about it how about writing a letter?
She needs to know you need intermacy. If she doesn't (it does seem she doesn't) you could somehow tactfully say you want to get it elsewhere. That doesn't necessary mean splitting up.

The thing that stood out for me the most was you declaring that you are not attracted to your wife .
Why do you want sex with her if you aren't attracted to her ?
Does she know that you are not attracted to her ?
You do a lot for your son but are you kind , loving and emotionally connected ?

Actually keepon has a point . There's nothing in your post that suggests you love or even like your wife . The only feeling you've expressed for her as a person is a negative one . I'm sure there's a lot more to this .

You ask how you could talk to your wife. I'd like to suggest a way that could make her more likely to answer, fingers crossed :) Don't see any of this as critical of whatever approach you currently use; I'm just trying to imagine how you could get her to open up.

I'd suggest chatting after a meal and a glass of wine. No distractions. Speak slowly and give yourself time to think between comments. Try to sound thoughtful, not annoyed or defensive.

1. Imagine/think about the fact that that your wife is someone you really care for deeply, are worried about and that all you want to do is try to make her feel better. Set aside your issues for this entire conversation.
2. Say "I'm sorry you have felt so stressed lately, is there anything I could do to help you?" / "Is anything bothering you?" / "How are you feeling today?"
3. Listen to what she says and try to memorise the answer. Then say "So what you mean is..." and summarise what it is she just said in your own words. For example (imagining your wife is not in a great mood):

Wife: Nothing.
You: So what you mean is, you don't need any help?

Wife: Stop pestering me for sex.
You: So what you mean is, all I ever do is ask for sex?

When she speaks, always try (subtly) to paraphrase her response, so that she knows you are listening and have/have not understood.

1. Do not (for now, sorry) try to defend yourself, set out your side of any argument or disagree with what she says; your aim is ONLY to get your wife to tell you stuff. DO NOT tell her stuff instead.
2. Continue by asking "I guess you feel [emotion] about that?" / "So do you feel [emotion] when that happens?" and/or nodding thoughtfully and looking at her face as if you expect her to continue.
3. Leave a pause in which she could speak, don't keep filling gaps.
4. If she clams up, don't press it. Try again another time.
5. Don't try to bring the conversation round to the subject of your sex life. See if she mentions it herself, or says anything that might be a clue!

Do you really want to live with her? People always paint such a shitty picture of what it is like after a divorce. I'm in a little flat, but it's not all seedy and grotty, and I don't spend all my time sitting in it alone. I still see the kids. But I have my own space and can meet people and do things I like.

You wouldn't "just" be splitting up because she wasn't "putting out". You'd be splitting up because she refuses to discuss the subject.

I would guess she won't talk because she feels bad about being "frigid"; the nasty way that word is used tells us that it's seen as very negative not to want sex. Even though there can be many understandable reasons for it, like depression, pain on penetration, or hormonal lack of libido. So when you say "All I want is you", meaning "All I want is sex with you", it's as if you are taunting her by saying "You are no good in bed."

What happened to your daughter, Arthur?

Dead - I am not being nasty. I think that the OP would be better placed to post on the SN boards where posters truly understand the impact of being a carer for a child with SN and the fantasy of being free, opting out and being 'selfish' and the imagined ease of blaming the other parent. It is hard for the couple, both parents, but in different ways. You can't escape it - I think OP realises this but wishes things were different. I bet his wife does too but is focusing on not rocking the boat and getting through the day with a painted on smile.

I think that a lot of replies bracket this and this is a mistake. The impact is huge on the whole family and is not an issue of simple personal fulfilment and happiness in a self-centred way that focuses on the man or woman or sex. Posters are critical of the lack of a plan, of taking action and say DC are nearly adult so are not a factor but don't understand the sense of responsibility and gut-wrenching guilt.

Try to find compassion OP - neither your wife or you chose this. 💐

"What do you want? Her to beg? After all, you work out/do martial arts? "

KeepOnKeepingOn1 do you think OP is being selfish doing things for himself such as martial arts and he should instead be spending most of his spare time helping out around the house and with the kids? I would disagree. His wife could do with a bit more help, but I doubt if OP giving up all his own interests would make much difference.