DH having rages - advice please?

[bonitabonita]

I want to tell you a situation that happened last night and hear your opinion on it, if you could be so kind. I have NC for this but have posted about my marriage before and the advice I've received has been incredibly helpful. I really apologise for the length - I want to give factual account, not 'my' version.

I am the main earner and have done over 60hours a week for the last 10 weeks due to a staff illness so am very tired. I am also having other problems - someone crashed into me and wrote my car off, we are on a spring water supply that has dried up so we are having to carry a lot of water around, my pet has been unwell and needed daily treatment, lots on with DC at end of school year etc. We've got a lot on.

I am taking DC away Tues - Sat for a break in London, DH has to work as he is on fixed holidays - I am self employed. Yesterday DD wanted to watch Coco. I agreed it looked great, we all did. I was working 8-6.30pm today, during the day DS14 did a lot of chores - hoovered whole house, swept and steam mopped kitchen, changed his bed, cleaned his room, emptied all the bins, sorted recycling loads more. DD12 had a sports event came home and made dinner - a Thai curry and stirfry. DH was pottering in the garden all day so when I got home I sorted the washing, changed the beds put everything in the kitchen away etc.

When I came down DC has organised everything and even poured me a glass of wine and put it where I like to sit (I drink maybe 2x per week 1/2 glasses wine). Food ready, film on, everyone happy. If you know the film, you'll know the bit I mean, but about 45 mins in a character appears and I said "oooooo look, do you know who that is meant to be?"

DC "No"
Me "It's Frieda Kahlo"
DH "It might not be based on her"
Me "I think it is"
DH "You think you know everything"
Me speechless

3 mins later

DS "It is Frieda Kahlo"
Me "I thought it was, she's very famous. I don't know anything about her art thou." at this point I could see DH glaring at me and said "Sorry" quietly
DH "I said you knew everything, you make me feel like shit, I feel like shit"
DH Storms out to his greenhouse for 45 minutes.

DC upset and cross with me saying "why did you say that"
me "what"
"That you thought it was her, you should just be quiet"
"why?"
then look confused "don't know"

Eventually I went out to try and find out what was going on. I was totally calm but confused. As I walked over he said "for gods sake" and slammed the shed door in my face. I knocked and said "what are you doing, please can we watch the film with the kids and we can talk later if you're upset"
DH "Fuck off"
Me "stop being horrible, I haven't done anything wrong"
DH "leave me alone, you always follow me and make me feel like shit, stop fucking hassling me, leave me alone"
At this point I was really frustrated "Fine, stay out here. But unless you come in, apologise and watch the film I am locking up at 9 and you can stay out her"
DH "fuck off and stop calling me names fuck off, go back to mainlining wine. Power drink your wine" (I had had maybe 1/2 glass of wine by this point and had certainly not called him names)

So I went in and after 30 minutes he comes in, watches the rest of the film and ignores me. DC went to bed and he refused to discuss it, sat with his head in his hands for over an hour.

This morning he slept until 10 then came outside to where I was feeding our pet and stood staring at me.

Me "what was all that about last night"
DH "I don't know"
Me "It was ridiculous. I want you to think about why you became so angry, it doesn't make sense"
DH "you wind me up"
Me "no, I didn't"
DH "you do wind me up deliberately and you wont shut up you go on and on being right all the time, you alway have to be right"
Me "that's not true. I get things wrong all the time. Remember during the England match when I said there were 13 men on a football team and you all took the piss of me and I thought it was really funny. I am happy to admit when I am wrong"
DH "You're always right aren't you"
Me "no, but I don't blame the person who is right when I am wrong, I am glad they have taught me something. What do you want? Last night the children said I shouldn't have said anything, I should never say anything. Is that what you want? To be like your dad"
DH angry "don't mention him!"
me "well watch out, you mother sits there in silence when he says ludicrous things, we don't see him, think what you want. I want to be told when I sound ridiculous or am wrong and I will not live with someone who behaves like you did last night"
DH "leave me alone"

He went out then and I am sat here wondering what the hell is going on. His mother is an alcoholic and his father has an extremely controlling personality. DH had an extremely unhappy childhood - alcoholism and violence.

I know that I am an annoying person. I am 'chatty' and have a very open relationship with DC so we talk about things DH would probably rather not listen to - news topics, injustice, books we read, films dissecting the plot - DH has been known to say this 'ruins' things, but can't explain why.

I just feel confused by it all. Sorry it is so long, advice much appreciated on what is going on, what I am doing to rile him so much. I am very tired and realise I am an irritating person, but why storm out and spoil the DC evening after they've been so kind/worked so hard? It seems so petty and immature.

Sorry it is so long - I wanted to give verbatim so it wasn't 'my' account. Thanks for any advice you can give. My head hurts thinking about it.

...pity party for his bad childhood...He has excelled in courses and not pursued things, he has wasted opportunities. I am tired of him.

I can't shake the feeling we were married to the same guy!

I have earned 90% of what we have had since we were 18

Like my XDH lived off his first wife and all subsequent women apart from me: I was pregnant and then SAHM of a young baby, and if it hadn't been for housing benefit and tax credits we would literally have starved. He drank all 'his' money and would have drunk 'ours' (i.e. the benefits) if I hadn't hidden all that from him. Your future with your DH will look somewhat like this, should you become unable to earn; the only difference is that there was a proper welfare safety net back then. You need someone who will have your back in a crisis, not someone who has a meltdown watching Jumanji and blames it on you! Don't feel bad about dumping him, he's probably got another decade of using his looks and charm to live off a succession of women, and he won't be your problem any more.

Has anyone had success at making someone see their own unreasonable behaviour?

There was a case study in the book 'Men who Hate Women and the Women who Love them' where one of the men did stop his rages after counselling, but his DW had already put up with decades of abuse. If the couple were real, they would have been of my grandparents' generation. These days it would be easier and saner to get a divorce. I do admire your tenacity but I don't think the strategy of waiting for him to change, with or without counselling, is probably worth it. The game isn't worth the candle.

My partner is grumpy, moody etc too so I understand some of your frustration. I agree with much of what has been said above but just wanted to add that counselling may be unravelling some things for him that may throw him off before they get better (that was my experience of my own counselling anyway). Sometimes it can come in waves before resolving. I’m not trying to excuse his behaviour though. How long has he been seeing someone and does he feel like it’s helping at all?

You and your kids sound amazing! Honestly! Well done. Sorry this is happening. I agree with the advice to read Lundy Bancroft and go on holiday without him. Might take a bit of explaining to the kids - but I suspect it will be good for them to see you putting your theory into practise for a change.

What's going on? Well, there's this ...
His father was an alcoholic until mid 40s when he ‘found god’. His mother is still an alcoholic.
I had a controlling violent father
His behaviour seems totally unrelated to me and I feel it is a pantomime of something he saw when he was little but he refuses to discuss it.

People often - even usually - carry their parents' relationships into their own adult lives, and find partners whose carried-over issues are 'compatible' with theirs. Looks like you two did: both hoping to rewrite the drama of an overbearing man with his long-suffering, clever wife. (Was his mum clever before she got drunk?) The fact that DH has similarly overhauled his life - cutting out booze, friends and hobbies - at around 40 - is a pretty depressing sign that he is reprising his father's role. Accusing you of drinking too much - like his mum - is evidence of this.

He's seeing a counsellor, but doesn't seem at all engaged with the real issues. I'm afraid you both need a long rethink, and I'm not betting on his ability to break out of these patterns.

While I'm being an internet psychologist: you don't seem to have noticed how much you put yourself down! Did your mum " get you a scholarship" all by herself, or did you have to pass some sort of exam? You're obviously lively, well-read and intelligent as your high-achieving teenagers like getting your input. While you're sorting things out, do something about your self-esteem, please!

Your DC told you that you should just be quiet.
Can you see how wrong that is? It’s just wrong. Really really wrong. Stop tying yourself up in circles trying to logic your way through all of this. There is something wrong with your DH. Very very wrong. If what you are telling us is true about your interactions etc then you need to get rid of him. You risk ruining your relationship with your DC otherwise. He’s running it by bad mouthing you. He’s obviously contemptuous of you and has zero respect. Your marriage is dead in the water. Make him stand on his own two feet and forge your own happy life without this horrid negative dead weight weighing you down

MsForsteir When did you realise your father had problems?

The thing about being annoying is that we're all flawed and those who love us know it and don't hold it against us. If your dh claims to be finding you such hard work it's his responsibility to define his boundaries. Making sarcastic and hostile comments is not constructive, it's just childish acting out, and abusive behaviour is never acceptable. So op, even if you were the most annoying person in the world (whatever that means) this would not be the natural and normal outcome.

This thread is so sad. You and your kids sound lovely and hardworking and brimming with potential.

Your DH is what? A charming pretty boy by the sounds of it. Are his sports model looks starting to fade? Is he realising how little he has achieved with his life? These are issues he can only work out for himself.

Seriously, don't sacrifice your kids mental well being on the altar of his toxic mid life crises.

He sounds miserable and awful. Damaged by his upbringing, that’s clear, but how long does he get to keep dragging you down?

We do have all the ingredients to be very happy, we should be happy, if only I could relax. I feel very happy when I am with DC on my own and am excited about being in London next week with them. DH has a strop because we bought tickets to a show and booked a restaurant (treats requested by DD and DS for excellent reports), so I asked if he expected us to have sandwiches at the premier inn and watch tv all week and he couldn't explain himself only say "I'll be here on my own". Well yes, but I am at work on my own 6 days a week and he is at home with DC, I miss so much because I am working and I encourage him to take them out and do things when I am working - why is he so angry and jealous of me?

That is a very kind point re my scholarship, yes I passed a very hard exam when I was 8. I remember it all very clearly and without DM I would not have passed. She was secretive and we used to sit in the car in a lay-by to do buy prep work so my father wouldn't get angry about it. My mum was 19 when she had me, and I am the second child. She is a very clever woman and she gave me financial independence and the ability to set my heart on a goal and work towards it. She was a flawed mum, but I know she fought very very hard for my education. My father didn't believe in education for girls so she really had to dig in, and then as a working class woman who'd left school at 14, she took me to that school where everyone looked down their noses at her youth, her accent, her clothing her hoard of kids etc and she stuck up for me. I remember it like it was yesterday her standing there and telling the head how clever I was and how the school would benefit from me being there and then telling them she needed money for my uniform etc. It is a very happy memory for me. That changed my life.

DH mother was university educated and a bright well read woman but I've never known her sober, she is quite addled - slurs etc. It's hard to see. DH father is a nasty piece of work. Very hard faced cold man, devour catholic and uses religion to punish and condemn everyone. I haven't seen him or spoken to him except at weddings/funerals since he pushed me over when I was pregnant with DD.

From the outside looking in it appears that I am a bossy demanding workaholic and he is the poor downtrodden husband. He has chosen not to contact friends etc and I tried to keep the relationships going by sending xmas cards etc but it resulted in his oldest friend getting angry with me and saying I was stopping DH contacting him and being controlling. Nothing could be further from the truth. I didn't know how to respond to that so I left it and our families haven't spoken since.

I have had counselling several times. The therapists have said, in summary, that my anxiety is caused by his erratic unpredictable behaviour and that I need to look after myself and work less.

I have little support as DM emigrated and everyone else sees me as the source of advice/support/help not someone who needs it. For example the trip to London next week is with a friend who is a single mum and struggles with her teenage DS alone for holidays as he gets bored. She has already text me asking if I can talk to him about his school work, his girlfriend and his relationship with his dad as he wont talk to her and we get on very well. I am glad I can help, I want to be there for my friends and family but everyone sees me as having the perfect life and my heart hurts at the moment.

Sorry for all these long posts, it helps to get it all out.

I have downloaded the book by Lundy Bankcroft
Thank you

Your children sound lovely!

It reads as if he feels angry and inferior compared to you and your children. Could he be having issues else where that he is projecting into Home situations?

Just reading the posts. Thank you all so much.

He is definitely not drinking at all and hasn't ever had a dependency on alcohol. BIL is an alcoholic and a drug addict and DH has always been careful. He gave up bar work when he was 21 because he found himself having a beer when he finished and it made him feel bad.

Previous therapy has not been productive as he obviously has a very different take on what his happening. For example he came home on one occasion and sat me down and said I had to stop calling him names as it was damaging his self esteem. I asked what names I was calling him and give an example. He said I had called him 'stupid' a few days earlier. I pointed out that I hadn't said that, he has said it - conversation went something like:

Me "Did you put the washing on?"
Dh "yes why"
"You've put my bra in and its ruined, its hand wash only"
DH "For fucks sake, I didn't know, do your own washing"
me "I'll happily do my own washing"
he storms off

So I relate this to him and he says that I made him feel stupid. I then ask if he would rather me not tell him about mistakes he makes, because everyone makes mistakes and I would rather be told so I can learn from them. Again, just says I make him feel stupid. I point out that he has just fixed the oven and I could never do that and how grateful I was. He says "yes, but you could pay someone to do that" and storms off.

Its all so exhausting and a waste of time and energy.

I wonder if it is my hormones and I could love him completely when I was broody and wanted the kids but now I feel sick of him. Is that unfair? At Xmas he was really nasty and I said if he didn't stop he had to leave. He turned round and accused me of using him as a sperm donor so the kids would be good looking :(

They are very good looking, so at least I've got that (weak attempt at a joke)

The therapists have said, in summary, that my anxiety is caused by his erratic unpredictable behaviour

No sh*t Sherlock!

You and your kids and your mum sound great. It's a shame she's no longer living locally and that you don't have enough support in real life.

He hates his job
He hates his father and brother
he has no friends
he loves his hobbies but pretends they are 'work'
he is over rewarded for the small amount of work he does in my business where he sometimes doesn't follow instructions and critiques me to staff
he apologises to DC when I tell him he must but never to me and often the apologies to DC are "sorry you had to hear that" not "sorry I was so unkind"
He has never organised a day out or a holiday
He has taken me on one date since we met - that was on my 40th birthday when I specified - no presents, I just want to be taken out one night I have not arranged.
he frequently ignores me and refuses to speak to me
He gets angry if I campaign politically and says I am 'try hard'
He said I was not allowed my pets but when I got them he took over
he says minor things like a verruca I have are 'disgusting' and makes a horrified face if I do something like cough. He has told me I am disgusting for farting in my sleep before, and been angry about it.
he dominates the television and I do not watch anything I like without a huge fuss
He is angry if I do things things with DC without him, whilst not wanting to come himself

It's pretty fucked up when I write it all out.

I am pollyanna and I do act like everything is great and put a brave face on. I need to think. I need to accept this for what it is.

So sorry for the walls of text. I know it is self centred but I think I need to think this thru and not roll over again.

'We do have all the ingredients to be very happy, we should be happy, if only I could relax.' You can't relax while you're being abused though, these two things are incompatible. In this case your anxiety is caused by actual danger. Abusive relationships are dangerous. And 'we' can't be happy while your dp is so clearly not happy. You can't fix him.

'The therapists have said, in summary, that my anxiety is caused by his erratic unpredictable behaviour and that I need to look after myself and work less.' Describing his behaviour as erratic and unpredictable (and addressing your work situation) is unhelpful in a 'rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic' kind of way; it is predictable in that he is abusive.

Approaching this as a relationship problem seems unhelpful. It sounds like abuse and it might help to start framing it that way. I hope the LB book is helpful to you.

Your chuldren sound so fab op.
Your husband, on the other hand, sounds such hard work.
I would be considering whether this is how you want to spend the rest of your life. I don’t believe that people change fundamentally.

Please get rid of him

This is not something I would wish on an enemy

He's a massive cunt

When I last had therapy was when I had lost my temper a couple of times and felt very vulnerable. I learned a lot and am calm and strong now. I think he preferred it when I would fight back and then we both had to apologise and make up. Now he thinks I am taking the moral high ground, when in fact I am just staying calm and not getting dragged down to his level.

This is a damn site better therapy than all I have paid for thou.

Sounds like he has an internal conversation going on in his head which does not bear any resemblance to what is actually happening in real life.

I would tell him that he can not and will not ruin this holiday for your children. And he can come if he can behave, any stropping, shouting and swearing then he will not be coming.

Hello bonita, I’m so sorry you have such a lot going on right now. I err, well, I know you’ve named changed, and it’s ok, not going to say anything more except . You sound lovely and I think you’ve hit the nail on the head when you said it’s not even about you.

Your dp seems to be re-enacting his parents life and force fitting you into the role of his mother no matter how different the reality, hence the weird accusations which make no rational sense.

I guess it gives him a strange kind of comfort to have those roles playing out rather than be free falling in reality... and the reality is:

• the only thing stopping him being happy is himself
• the only thing stopping him being successful is himself
• the only person destroying the wonderful people and family around him, is himself

That’s a deeply unpleasant reality to face. Much easier and more comforting to trap yourself in the dynamics of your past. And pretend they are the reality around you. Pretend hard enough and you can force reality to bend into that shape, or near as damn it.

And then you get to be excused.... we’ll, when I say ‘you’, I mean him. He gets to be excused. He gets to be the victim, he gets to say ‘it wasn’t my fault’

I’m so sorry my love.

At the end of the day, you cannot force someone to live a nice life. Even if it’s surrounding him... but he can pull it down around your ears. Destruction comes easy to some people.

You cannot force someone to step out from the prison they’ve made for themselves if they don’t want to.

That’s the hard lesson I had to learn. I made life so bloody perfect for my husband. I took away all his fears and woes and barriers and they were massively big ones... and he got given so many opportunities. That he threw back in people’s faces. Again and again. And I sacrificed so much to try and help him. But, he didn’t want to live a good life, or maybe he didn’t know how, maybe it was too scary for him. I don’t know. But I do know that I couldn’t pull down the walls surrounding him. Because after we got rid of the ones life had put in the way, my stbxh put up prison walls of his own making... anything so he didn’t have to live life easily and with fun and warmth and laughter.

You have to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice. Because I think your holiday will be screwed if you let him near it... he’s ramping up to tear it down for you and everyone else. He’s signalling that a mile off, I’m sorry.

He sounds very familiar to me. My ex was similar and constantly manipulated people (including several therapists) to think he was downtrodden and that he was the victim and not the perpetrator of the abuse. Have you talked to a solicitor about possible separation and his status as SAHP?

When England won a World Cup match DS was beside himself - giddy and a bit wild. DH has always been a huge England fan and watched all the matches with DS. I was at work and DS sent me a text of him dancing in his England shirt, I was so pleased for him I managed to finish early and raced home via a take away so we could have a fun evening and celebrate. By the time I got back DH was in a rage because DS hadn't hovered the porch when he'd done the house that morning. I said "come on, it doesn't matter, lets enjoy the moment" and he just wouldn't stop. He insisted on emptying out and cleaning the porch. I went in and we had the take away and tried to relax but its impossible with a huge man throwing stuff around in the next room.

I also have a joint problem and if I am every in pain DH shouts as me and repeatedly tells DC I am 'In a mood" - they know now and just say "no her knee hurts' and ignore him but no matter how many times he cant see the difference between me being in pain or scared and me being angry. Its a lot of projection and you are all right, I dont want to live like this anymore.

He does have many redeeming features thou, and I am very weak. And tired.

Please, please read Living with the Dominator by Pat Craven. It is excellent and written for women like me and you who have to find a new way forward.

Bonita - please please do yourself and your kids the biggest kindness and leave your husband. Better still, get him to leave. Your posts are so sad, to have to put up with just a tenth of his shit would test a saint.

Please stop saying you’re annoying. No one deserves this and you’re not responsible for his shitty behavior. Why not take some practical steps like talking to a lawyer about what would happen if you split up. That could help crystalise a course of action for you.

Best of luck. You and your children sound lovely and deserve much much more.

Your husband dislikes you, probably actually hates you. That's all there is to say. You can't spend your life with someone who hates you.

The thing about looking like you're doing jobs when he comes in is worrying. My Mum was highly abusive and couldn't stand to see us not doing anything. We always leapt up and got busy for her arrival too. That's very tough on you and your kids.