Questions for other woman

[TheMonkeyMummy]

Asking for a friend, but if you have one chance to ask (non aggressive, no one wants a shouting match) questions, what would you ask?

I can't think beyond was it worth it, what did you think the outcome would be and did you ever think about your families.

I really really resent that word 'bitter'. Its actually gaslighting as it makes cheated on spouses feel that they are wrong to feel as angry as they do (usually, after the initial shock on behalf of their children). It's used to try and shut down threads like this where betrayed spouses tell the truth about the damage cheating causes. And because that's a very uncomfortable truth they are written off as bitter. Every single situation is different, some marriages (including mine, with hindsight) were better off ending. It may have happened that new person came onto the radar whilst the marriage was still intact but it is never OK to overlap. It's really fucking simple.. Even if the feelings developed for the OW /om are what prompts a spouse to leave. OK fine, leave, but don't overlap and don't shove your great new 'normal' down everyone throats hoping they'll forget the truth that you cheated. If its true love it will survive a few months decency waiting.

No, it isn't that fucking simple. People get confused, and wrongly accuse. I got into a relationship with someone who left an abusive marriage. The divorce wasn't finalised when I became involved with him, but he had absolutely left the woman, and the house, and the marriage.
She has told everyone and convinced herself that it must have been an affair, and she is angry on behalf of the children, and tells them often how horrible and selfish he is for leaving 'them'.
Basically, she has made up a lie because she feels shit. But also, he felt really shit in the marriage becaus ehe was screamed at, spat on, kicked and hit..so no, not simple. not for him, not for her, not for the children.

Life isn't simple, I once thought all cheaters were shit evil people too. I've only had one partner OH who has been emotionally abusing me for years, thank god he's working away. I've focused on myself it's not right me and OM, but I love him, it's given me the strength to get things in order to leave OH not for OM but myself.

@HugeAckmansWife

It isn’t star crossed lovers shit. We had feelings for each other for slightly more than a year before anything happened. My DH and I tried to break it off but we couldn’t and he choose to end his marriage. I didn’t ask him to leave he made that choice as he didn’t want to stay with a woman he no longer loved.

I felt incredibly guilty as he had a daughter but my love for my now DH superseded that guilt.

We are still crazy about each other, have our own family and I love his DD as my own so ultimately it was worth going through the pain at the beginning.

oh yes, and the ex wife who now accuses him of cheating also gaslighted him as part of the abuse. But becasue she has told everyone that she really loved him, and was so hurt by hime leaving, he gets called a cheat and a bastard. And I get labelled 'OW' by the type of short sighted gullible quick to judge types that think there is a simple right and wrong. In my case The ex's story is that he is a cheat and had an OW. But there is a completely other story that is just as, if not more, valid. My point is, you do not know the truth of the OP's friend's situation, no one does, not even OP, unless she was actually talking about herself. And in that case, she only knows her truth and all the other people have just as valid a truth. Whether male, female, adult or child.

It always shocks me a bit, all the misogyny lumped on ow. How they are home wreckers, the lowest of the low, etc. I have never been the ow (knowingly at least) but I don’t think that they owe some random woman an obligation to police her husband. People have affairs for all sorts of reasons - some last, some don’t. Some random woman you don’t even know has no obligation to you. She hasn’t betrayed you. If your husband has cheated, take it up with him.

@MistressDeeCee didn't bail out. I fell asleep. It's bedtime!

I'd worry about what the OW would be getting out of meeting the wife. It's unlikely that the meeting will make the wife feel any better- either the OW will feel guilty and want the wife to make her feel better by forgiving her, or the OW will want to justify her shagging a married man, by pointing out all the wife's faults, real and imagined.

buddhababy123. Exs aren't automatically bitter gaslighter either. And has it ever crossed your mind that the truth you get through him may be far from it? You assume you're the OW. If you became involved with him only after he had already left his wife I wouldn't be so sure.

constantstruggler I did not mean to imply that all exes are bitter or gaslighty. I am not bitter about my ex and he is not of me (as far as I know).
Maybe I did not explain my point very well...I just meant that one side is never the whole story, because of different experience and perspective according to different subects. The ex of the man I'm involved with is thoroughly convinced I am an OW who must have lured him away, I think because she really does not believe that the hitting etc. was reason enoguh for him to leave her. Because they were married, and in her mind marriage meant forever, whatever.
Re truth...I don't really believe in one truth or another. I just really like him and did from when we first met.
I am not OW, because he had left the marriage. But many people in this little village have been told I am. And are quick to believe it and judge, just like many people here.

Questions I would ask:

Did he tell you we weren't having sex?

Did he tell you I was crazy?

Did he tell you he did all the housework/childcare etc?

Did he tell you all I cared about was his money?

Did he tell you that it had been over for ages, and we were just together for the kids?

I would ask how it started.

I honestly think you should show your friend this thread. It will show her that everyone had their own version of the truth.

I know my exh was verbally, emotionally and finacially abusive. The OW sees him as the victim of a bitter ExW.

Speaking to me isnt going to suddenly let her see my truth. The other more sinister option is she knows what he is like as after three years i imagine his true nature should be appearing.

She could be as damaged as him. As selfish, self centred and blinkered to her own needs. My ex is a diagnosed narc. I doubt hes told her this.

Thats his truth, he truely believes he is the victim.

Affairs are not black and white. It evolves conplex human emotions. BUT what is black and white is my ExH put his needs before his childrens. His truth is he had no option. My kids truth is a lot more heartbreaking.

Their dad chose to move an hour and half away because dad missed the OW more than them. They will always love him. They have to as he is ther dad. OW might leave him if he didnt move. This is their truth as told to them by their dad.

Affairs are heartbreaking. Their consequences last years. Well after the affair parties think life has gone back to normal and people should have moved on. My kids still struggle but they should be happy for their dad.

Me speaking to OW wouldn't change this.

The OW in my case. She knew me and my kids. we had to move far away from my husband-kids health and work. He insisted we join him at his work place where he was going through a very stressful time (to be with us to help etc). I refused because it was best for the kids . She saw how good a i and father he was. She was also going through a lot of problems. He helped her a lot (he helps a lot people). She was (is) a professed staunch feminist anti patriarchal Lesbian and yet she did all the dirty tricks in the book to get him. (I don't absolve him . When she passionately kissed him in the street he felt flattered and told himself why not have a little "shot" affair I would not know about. The fact she as not his type and that she was what I described feminist etc probably added spices to the affair.) He would break off and she would go after him. Wherever he was. She would say:"I never loved and will never love anyone like you...nothing compared to you bla bla she would create situations where he felt "morally" (haha) obliged to go and help..in short she the strong feminist antipatrirchal woman played the part of the desperate damsel and my husband with a twisted sense of chivalry joined in-even though he was unhappy.. (I remember how down and sad he felt at that time). Anyway there are consequences to his affair. Not on my kids. They love him. Forgave him. They say" It made him more human...he always loved and still love you a lot mum-more than you love him...he really regrets it...he was sick during the affair and even now he is sad by it etc etc" Anyway the OW lies about it (i got letter and other docs) all. Shr is in a same sex relationship and continue to play the champion if women rights ..

Arum51

Yes
Yes
Kind of (he paid for a f/t nanny and daily cleaner)

Yes
Yes.

It was all true.
Forgot to mention that she had been shagging OM for at least 8 months before he left her for me.

But he left her. So the narrative became 'evil bastard leaves wronged wife for conniving slut/whore/husband thief. '

Without a doubt, by far the biggest reason for affairs are to do with child custody. I have yet to meet a person who is 'persuaded away' from a happy and satisfying marriage. The cheating occurs when one party no longer loves the other but separation from the spouse means separation from the children. Majority in this situation are men.
This is why majority of women will leave an unhappy marriage with 'nothing to go to ' because the children will inevitably go with her - and why men have affairs , only leaving when desire for OW and dislike of existing spouse , subsumes the guilt of leaving dcs.

A default 50/50 expectation of child contact on separation, would decrease the percentage of cheating. I doubt it will decrease the percentage of separations.

Thanks to all of those who positivity participated in my genuine request for guidance.

It has happened, my friend got the information she needed from OW, and has confronted the lying H, who then admitted to everything that OW told her.

So, in this instance, it did help. It helped her to gain more clarity and stopped her for being strung along/gaslighted further. She has told them they are welcome to each other and walked away with her head held high.

I haven't shown her this thread but maybe I will, if it is needed in the future. I'll keep it in reserve.

I am sure the next couple of years are going to be awfully rough for her and the kids, and she is in so much pain now, but I think now she won't be spending time wondering about the massive holes in the H's story (as there were many).

OK, I can see the point of that, MonkeyMummy, though she was lucky that she did actually get something informative, and incredibly lucky that he admitted it so she knows it is probably the truth.

Seems I missed a lot yesterday night! Don't think I'll bother reading it, will just be the usual :)

My husband had an affair last year. I found out about 9 months ago. They had sex once but a lot of texting/calls/kisses etc.

I knew the woman and her husband. And her 2 children. She still works with my husband’s company. It’s all a farce.

I bumped into her one day in a shop. I let her have it both barrels. I wanted her to realise she had fucked with the wrong woman and I could make her life a misery if I wanted, much like her actions had done to me. I wanted her to know I was smarter, more attractive and an all round better person than her.

I got some relief and thought that would be the end of it. I thought she would have the good sense to piss off, find another job and let me have the headspace I needed.

That was almost 3 months ago. She has done absolutely fuck all and actually the knowledge that she heard it directly from me and has continued to disrespect me, sends me into an absolute rage.

So OP I agree with PP, your friend will probably never get the answers she wants. The OW in my case is a master at manipulation, turns on the little girl lost act (she’s the same age as me by the way so not a little girl!) at the drop of a hat and will do just about anything she can to weasel her way out of anything and I know for a fact she will have completely rewritten history and minimised everything to suit herself (I have spoken to her husband so I know how little she has told him)

The only good thing to have come out of it is the knowledge that she is petrified of me (I know this for a fact) and her dawning realisation that she is a much, much lesser person than me.

I have seen her social media and she has continued life completely unaffected. She doesn’t give a fuck about any of us.

It’s a struggle every day for me to maintain my cool and move forward, but I know when I do, it will be real and not her made up version of ostrich-ing which is surely so much better.

I wish your friend every success but would counsel against questions.

Djnoun; if just because yo7 like someone older gives you no ground to go for a married man. For all you know the wife is very happily married with no problems s and he's just being a selfish bastard? That poor women will probably ly find out and even if he is more to.blame than you (hell if it wasn't you it would be someone else....) you are still responsible for your actions.. you just sound very selfish

In the case of the OW involved with my ex.
she got her comeuppance by been seen as a bit of a clown by their colleagues (they worked together) as she had boasted to people how my ex was going to leave me for her. When he didn't (we gave it another go but divorced two years later, without bitterness) he cut her off completly , blocking all her attempts at contact. She persisted for months , convinced he was the love of her life and would come back to her.
We are both happily remarried now and the OW is with another married man!
What a fool!

fontofnoknowledge Agree re children and fear of losing them, this was the reason the man I know did not leave his ex sooner (slightly diff as he did not leave for another woman...), despite physical attacks starting years before he left.
For him, he thinks he would have ended up attempting suicide had he stayed, was on antidepressents etc for years in the marriage.
The narrative is hard to shake, and I am sorry for the man you know being labelled as such. It is so damaging esp for children if one (or both) of their parents are badmouthed in this way....as so often happens when people feel outraged on behalf of their children.

Budd but that's your story. Mine is very different. To lable you as the scarlet woman would be the same as labling me as the bitter ex.

I made him leave. I rejoiced when he left as i could stop the counselling he had sent me to.

When id asked a few months before i found out the truth if he was having an affair he gaslighted me so much that he arranged and paid for counselling to help me get over my irrational jealousy.

Thats my truth. As i said affairs are not black and white. What is black and white is truth and lies and no matter what is happening in your relationship respect and the truth should be expected as a minimum.

@Motherofpooch

I do believe he and his wife are happily married and I'm glad that is the case. He speaks of her with a lot of love and affection. However, she ended their sexual relationship several years ago. He and she are both quite a bit older than me. He has had an affair previously, which was not discovered. And again, I don't want to go into any revealing personal details, but I am almost certain she wouldn't discover the current arrangement.

Yes, I do understand that I am acting selfishly. But again, I don't think he should leave an otherwise happy relationship because of this particular issue. And there's no malice on my part. I see it as a convenient arrangement that fulfils a need on my and his part.

chuckle - happy for you that you are out of that one, gaslighting is horrible. Father of my children also accused me of irrationality and jealousy when I questioned him about all the affairs...told him I wasn't jealous, I just didn't want to be lied to. And similarly, I was so much happier out of that relationship.

There is some interesting psychology around truths and lies though and false memories are a real thing. Studies in eye witness testimonies have strongly suggested that we are even able to fool ourselves into believing something that did not happen...and vice versa, and everything in between.
I did, looking back, have some interesting conversations with a few of my ex's OW (pl) and none of them were awful people. all of them were as human as I am, no more and no less. One would hope for truth and respect in any relationship, but in reality maybe i wasn't completely respecting myself by staying in a relationship where someone was unable apparently to be monogomous, which is something that means a lot to me.
There is a book I really enjoyed about moral psychology (The righteous mindby J Haidt), which I'd recommend to anyone interested in why people sometimes seem to behave in completely immoral/unethical ways.

@LuckyStar1

I bumped into her one day in a shop. I let her have it both barrels. I wanted her to realise she had fucked with the wrong woman and I could make her life a misery if I wanted, much like her actions had done to me. I wanted her to know I was smarter, more attractive and an all round better person than her.

I suppose that is what you want to believe but if you really were an all round more attractive, smarter and better person your husband wouldn’t have wanted to shag her would he.

The only good thing to have come out of it is the knowledge that she is petrified of me (I know this for a fact) and her dawning realisation that she is a much, much lesser person than me.*

Well that is contradictory as before you said she continues to disrespect you therefore how is she petrified of you.

Maybe stop giving the OW so much headspace then you can move on.