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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Being the other woman/conniving in deception/dropping the trapdoor

310 replies

Smudge100 · 09/06/2018 20:08

Six years ago I came home from work to find my then husband had thoughtfully changed the locks on the house before eloping with the woman down the road. When I finally gained entry, I discovered that they had everything useful and even my poor dog.

It’s a common enough story. However, the lady in question was someone I felt close to. She had successfully posed as a friend to both of us, so successfully in fact that I never had an inkling that she had having an affair with my husband for eighteen months. I was later to learn that they had planned their departure to coincide with her reaching pensionable age (at 50, I might add), so that they could both retire to the area where my then husband and I had for years planned to spend our twilight years. Every detail had been carefully put in place. I was left to discover over the ensuing few months not only how methodical and comprehensive their planning had been, but how heavily it had relied upon my ignorance of it. I still struggle with the scale of that duplicity and the extent of my own wilful blindness.

In the intervening years I have given considerable thought to the steely nerves and the sheer brazenness it must have taken for her to maintain that equaniminous demeanour of unruffled nonchalance whilst pursuing a project that she knew would rob me not just of my future, but my faith in human nature and in my own judgement. I’m not suggesting that she owed me a duty of loyalty – far from it - she owed me much less than my equally devious ex-husband. But strangely, I have actually wondered more about her role in it than his. My question is not: have you ever been the Other Woman? There have been plenty of threads in that particular well-worn vein, though I certainly wouldn’t want to discourage anyone with that particular experience from posting, in fact I’d be very interested to hear your point of view. It is however rather, have you ever been a party to the carefully-planned and protracted deception of a third party, particularly someone you knew well? If so, why? Was it for personal gain? Did you despise your victim? Feel they deserved what they got? Ever feel a tinsy bit guilty or the need to justify/rationalise it to yourself? What were your motives exactly? I’m not here to judge anyone, I’m long beyong that now, I’m just still curious about the psychological dynmamic of cheating, the whole process of misleading, placating, dissembling before another person, of not being yourself, of not showing your true face and the strain that places, if any, on the person practising deception. Please feel free to be brutally honest. If only they had been.

OP posts:
Blackbirdblue30 · 14/06/2018 14:44

I had an experience as an 'other woman' but in that case I was lied to as well. I was best friends with a guy and friendly with his wife too, and their kids. I knew for a fact that they were quite free sexually. They'd had a threesome for example and she had explored a thing with another woman before. (That was true)

However my best friend lied to me for over a year (think grooming if you like) about other things. Random things. Things he'd done, people he'd been with etc. About his wife. I didn't have a clue and meanwhile we'd the kind of friendship which was physically affectionate anyway and we used to have a bit to drink and a laugh. Turned into sex twice and he told me that his wife was cool about it and thought it was erotic and had used it in her own solo fantasies. (I know, I know..)
Anyway. They had other marital problems and one night he confessed it to her in a row, badly. Obviously, she didn't know.

She was livid and I don't blame her. I'd have been the same. It transpired that my friend had lied to her, to me, to another mutual friend, lied about all of us to each other as well and it was a complete mess. We haven't seen each other since. They got counselling and I think they're doing ok.
What has cut though is that I lost my best friend to this. And her too. I was deceived too. My trust was broken too. As a woman (even though I was single) I got roughly 90 percent of the blame as some kind of whore, not the married father fucking pathologically lying man. I was made a pariah by the above mutual friend and some others.

Such a mess for the sake of a few episodes of crappy drunken sex. I will never be so naive again and I no longer trust what even the closest people in my life now say to me.

nhnhnhnh · 14/06/2018 16:39

@ICESTAR

Most (many at least) people who find themselves on this situation have previously believed that their partner isn’t like this.
And then - either an opportunity arose, or something else transpired.
Relationship doesn’t need to be struggling for the curiosity to have different sexual experiences to drive people to exploring sex outside of their primary relationship.

ICESTAR · 14/06/2018 17:04

Hi @nhnhnhnh oh yes sorry I know that. I've been cheated on before a couple of times. Once by my so called two friends in one night with an ex. My current partner is the only one I've ever been able to say that about. We've both had people express their interest in us during the relationship and we've told each other as it's funny. Maybe flattering even but I feel comfortable enough to tell him. I do know where you are coming from though. But I really believe he wouldn't.

BonsaiBear · 14/06/2018 19:47

Not an affair but yes to the planned and meticulous betrayal..for me was a family member.

It took over a year for me to accept that the series of actions this family member took was in large part to harm me. Some of it was about their own gratification and selfish goals but a good deal of it was a direct kick in the cunt along the way.

Why did they do it? I believe they justified it as their due because of their own insecurity issues going back decades. I think they had to believe it was the only way to 'win' feeling good about themselves.

Funnily enough they don't seem particularly happy even though they got everything they went for. As for me? I am polite If I have to interact but essentially a close family member is dead to me. The level of betrayal and underhandedness combined with the emotional cruelty of what they did finally made me understand that they actively hate me. It was very hard to accept it and the hurt and sense of injustice has been strong but I'm getting there.

In terms of the future I've thought about if I would ever behave the way they did given a chance. The answer is no...but gone are the days I put myself second for them as I have done our whole lives.

Essentially it's freed me to pursue my own life. If they hate what I do in the future then good. I'll probably think it's deserved. But I won't act specifically for that outcome. I just won't consider their desires as playing any role in my decisions any more.

So I guess betrayal helped me in a way. Helped me to value myself more and learn some tough lessons. Some people really are that selfish and determined to try and crush others. I think they're the true weak ones.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 14/06/2018 23:05

@startoftheyear thanks for your comments! It’s a deep, devastating pain, that of betrayal by the one partner you’ve chosen to base your future life on. I can see why the wronged partner can feel so broken, doubt themselves, and be wary for years that someone might be lying to them again. It’s a form of abuse.

TwentySmackeroos · 15/06/2018 00:36

My marriage broke up because of an OW.

Two years later, I bumped into an ex of 20 years and got chatting. He was now divorced. We exchanged numbers, went for dinner. Ended up in bed. It was amazing. I'd last been with him when I was 19, and it seemed we had reconnected.

A week or two later, we were chatting in bed when he mentioned that he couldn't wait until his house renovations were finished.

'Wait,' I said, 'where do you live now?'
'With my girlfriend, but I don't see it really going anywhere.'

I got up, got dressed and left. Afterwards I agonised and messaged him, but what he considered okay and what I considered okay were so many miles apart, I just thought he was an uttter shit and no way in hell was i going to indulge any sort of 'special connection' with someone who was in a LTR. I was so disappointed in him. Our paths in life are littered with choice; there was no way I was going to be party to the destruction of someone else's relationship, no matter how orgasmic the sex was.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 15/06/2018 09:00

@twentysmackeroos that’s horrible for you. What a sly Ex! He lied by omission to get you into bed. Good for you for walking away though.

TuTru · 15/06/2018 09:12

My xs ow was my bff from school and had done a similar amount of plotting.
I put it down to them both being scum and am well rid of them. They’re not together now, I’ve no idea where she is. He’s married to someone else.
I told her what I thought of her, how much of a friend she was(n’t)
She was obsessive, wanted to be me, have my life, my partner and child etc etc
Some women are jst weird like that.
And some men are weak idiots.
Nomfp anymore xxx

TuTru · 15/06/2018 09:14

FTR I don’t have an amazing enviable life, she was just a bit mental. I lived in a council flat and worked shitty shifts to fit round my partners self importance. Lol

GertieMotherwell · 15/06/2018 10:30

ICESTAR

I could have written your post 5 years ago.
Guess what ........

0lwen · 15/06/2018 11:25

what??

nomoreheroesanymore · 15/06/2018 11:50

@GertieMotherwell

Exactly. Very pleased that @ICESTAR is in a strong relationship, but I suspect that most of us also thought we were. It literally can happen to anyone.

PurpleTrilby · 15/06/2018 11:57

Irregularchoices: Well I like your style and your honesty. Like you say, the men were in the wrong, you were single. I'm quite envious actually, I could have done that when I was younger!

ICESTAR · 15/06/2018 12:28

@GertieMotherwell I totally get where you are coming from. I've seen it on here time and time again. I've been cheated on multiple times so I honestly do get where people are coming from.

But we can't just assume everyone is capable of being a cheat otherwise I would trust no one. He's never given me cause for worry in that regard. Like most people we have had our ups and downs in life and he is by far from being angelic. But he is a trustworthy person in that regard. If I don't trust him what's point? Until if he would ever do anything then I shall cross that bridge if I ever came to it. But I just don't believe he would. I feel lucky that we both still feel in love 12 years down the line. Still doesn't mean that he isn't a damn pain in the arse lol. I don't want to feel jaded towards him because of my past experiences when he has done nothing wrong.

Dobbythesockelf · 15/06/2018 13:31

This thread is just depressing. Obviously the OW in most cases isn't betraying anyone so is not at fault like the men doing the cheating. However they more not be at fault as such but it says a lot about their morals if they honestly think it's ok to shag a married man.
As for the crap about it being the wife's fault because she was too homely, motherly, nagged to much etc that is a load of rubbish. The man chooses to cheat, he will tell the OW anything to convince her. If the relationship isn't working then you should address it and try to work things out or leave. You do not need to start an affair.
I have been with my husband for 10 years, we do domestic things together and I don't always look my best but if he chose to cheat tomorrow it would not be my fault. It is not my responsibility to keep him on his toes etc.

AynRandTheObjectivist · 15/06/2018 13:41

Of course shagging a married person is dishonourable and you shouldn't do it. But that doesn't mean other people's marriages are your responsibility.

How would you feel if you found a letter your husband had written to someone else, telling her he was desperate for her and if she ever changed her mind all she had to do was tell him and he'd come running and fuck her brains out? That all was OK because the other woman had rejected him and therefore he hadn't shagged her?

diamondsandrose · 15/06/2018 15:46

Ice star your I found your cliche comment a bit hurtful. People on here are just discussing experiences and I was finding it helpful.

I would have written your post a few months ago. I had 21 years with the same person from the age of 21. The perfect husband and father or so everyone thought including me. He had his little faults as we all do , but cheat and lie and have sex with another woman, a stranger he barely knew? And lie to my face about it? Never. But he did.

Don't be " a smug married", you might regret it later. Enjoy your relationship for what it is as it sounds great but be very careful of saying "he isn't like that"

I thought that too, I'm not stupid and it's not a cliche , it's utter heartbreak and families with young children being torn apart.

HazelBite · 15/06/2018 15:53

Twice in my life i have been seeing someone and found out that they were married.
I finished both relationships as I considered them both very untrustworthy.
One of the men I was very attracted to and felt a real connection with, but the discovery that he considered that I was only good enough to be a "bit on the side" put me right off, as did the lack of mentioning his marriage when we first met.

nhnhnhnh · 18/06/2018 15:47

@SilverySurfer

You posted on another thread, but the reply fits better here....

There are different kinds of affairs. And not all are the kind where a lonely single woman seduces a married man and waits around hopelessly for him to never leave his wife.

Plenty of married people have affairs with other married people, by choice. Sometimes those are exit affairs, when the relationships are ending their natural life. Other times - these are just arrangements that work for the both parties and solve whatever issues, or give whatever escape people are seeking.

So - no low self esteem is needed for most of the affairs.
And both parties participate willingly.
So - no - I don’t feel guilty for making the man I am seeing make the choices in his life.
He made them before he met me.
And vice versa.

Life isn’t black and white as MN tends to want it to be.

RainySeptember · 18/06/2018 18:46

nhn, Its a mad idea but, honestly, what's wrong with just going through life with a general philosophy of not hurting other people in any way if you can possibly help it?

People who trot out 'it's not black and white' are usually shits trying to justify shitty behaviour ime.

ApolloniaC · 18/06/2018 20:25

Twice I've been the ow.
The first one was in 2006. We met, I was 23 and he 26. We had a lot of fun together, he was in the military stationed overseas. I had not an incline he had a wife. I remember once his phone went off and the caller was named "greatest woman on earth" he told me it was his ex. We carried on seeing each other. He must have got orders to leave and didn't tell me. He didn't say goodbye. I literally got thrown on the tip. I was heartbroken. About a year later and I join fb. I search him. Find him. Send him a message. I get a reply from his wife who he had married 6 months before meeting me. It was a nasty response, sent from him but I could see it had come from her iykwim. I was furious. He had spread sick rumours about me. Last week I contacted his wife on FB again and told her her husband is a filthy, lying piece of a scum. I contacted her anonymously and she had to play a guessing game on which OW i was. We had a really long talk. She said they'd be married 13 years and she's been contacted by various women he has messed with. She said she can't just up and leave as he won't let her take their young girls. I feel a sense of relief. I told her her husband did not deserve to walk away from this consequence free. She thanked me for getting in touch with her. That bastard ruined my reputation within a small community and left me for dead.

nhnhnhnh · 19/06/2018 01:24

@RainySeptember

It’s nice if the life unfolds in a way of a Hollywood movie. Love conquers all, problems get resolved, happiness for all is possible.
(This is for me the Black/White world)

However, I don’t know anyone who lives in this world.
Where I am at this point - not hurting anyone isn’t possible.
Between not hurting my kids, myself and my H - I, for now, chose the kids.
And I stay in the marriage that is dead, for me that is. It’s crushing my soul every day to be there, but I stay. Because for now - it’s best for them.
It’s not easy and I am not made of steel. I can be depressed and catatonic, or try to be a happyish human.
I chose the latter.

Seeing my married man - gets me a dose of happiness, a bit of reprieve from my life. So that I can come back to it and be the parent my kids need.

It is that for him too - for different reasons. And then he goes back home too.

So - I don’t live in black/white worlds. Maybe you do. Maybe you got lucky.

RainySeptember · 19/06/2018 04:08

I don't live in a Hollywood movie either. Plenty of tough breaks and uncomfortable choices here. So far, I have managed not to widen the misery net to encompass another family.

In your situation, I would leave because that route causes the least suffering.

Your choice disrespects your dh, demonstrates a shit relationship to your kids, runs the risk of making everything a million times worse when the affair is discovered, and colludes in hurting your mm's wife and kids too.

You have managed to convince yourself that the most selfless choice is, what a surprise, what you want to do anyway. Don't kid yourself it's better for anyone, except you.

If you think things are bad now, wait until everyone you know, including your kids, find out about the affair.

GertieMotherwell · 19/06/2018 07:22

No, nhnhnhnh is doing this for her kids.

The magic comment that absolves you from blame. Obviously a good person. Shagging one of our husbands for the sake of her kids.

nhnhnhnh · 19/06/2018 10:11

I am staying in the marriage for the kids. When they are older - and I can see that the time is right - i’ll leave....
My H is an adult and free to live - I am not responsible for his happiness. I am also not holding him chained to this marriage.

I didn’t find and trick my MM somehow. We met somewhere where married people come and meet other married people. So - equally I am not responsible for his life and his happiness.
His W found out about MM and I - but wants to keep him at any cost, including opening up the marriage.
There are no kids. So - it’s her choice. And his.

In some other version of my life - I married someone I loved and we lived happily ever after.
Didnt happen that way.

So - I am just living it. Once a week I meet a man who gives me something I need. And vice versa.
And then live goes on.

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