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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Being the other woman/conniving in deception/dropping the trapdoor

310 replies

Smudge100 · 09/06/2018 20:08

Six years ago I came home from work to find my then husband had thoughtfully changed the locks on the house before eloping with the woman down the road. When I finally gained entry, I discovered that they had everything useful and even my poor dog.

It’s a common enough story. However, the lady in question was someone I felt close to. She had successfully posed as a friend to both of us, so successfully in fact that I never had an inkling that she had having an affair with my husband for eighteen months. I was later to learn that they had planned their departure to coincide with her reaching pensionable age (at 50, I might add), so that they could both retire to the area where my then husband and I had for years planned to spend our twilight years. Every detail had been carefully put in place. I was left to discover over the ensuing few months not only how methodical and comprehensive their planning had been, but how heavily it had relied upon my ignorance of it. I still struggle with the scale of that duplicity and the extent of my own wilful blindness.

In the intervening years I have given considerable thought to the steely nerves and the sheer brazenness it must have taken for her to maintain that equaniminous demeanour of unruffled nonchalance whilst pursuing a project that she knew would rob me not just of my future, but my faith in human nature and in my own judgement. I’m not suggesting that she owed me a duty of loyalty – far from it - she owed me much less than my equally devious ex-husband. But strangely, I have actually wondered more about her role in it than his. My question is not: have you ever been the Other Woman? There have been plenty of threads in that particular well-worn vein, though I certainly wouldn’t want to discourage anyone with that particular experience from posting, in fact I’d be very interested to hear your point of view. It is however rather, have you ever been a party to the carefully-planned and protracted deception of a third party, particularly someone you knew well? If so, why? Was it for personal gain? Did you despise your victim? Feel they deserved what they got? Ever feel a tinsy bit guilty or the need to justify/rationalise it to yourself? What were your motives exactly? I’m not here to judge anyone, I’m long beyong that now, I’m just still curious about the psychological dynmamic of cheating, the whole process of misleading, placating, dissembling before another person, of not being yourself, of not showing your true face and the strain that places, if any, on the person practising deception. Please feel free to be brutally honest. If only they had been.

OP posts:
Understampable · 10/06/2018 20:10

This is something I wonder about:

For those people who think infidelity is always evil and indicates flawed character... in terms of willpower, how do you think it compares to, say, not sticking to a diet you really need to stick to for the sake of your health (and, therefore, a family's wellbeing)? How many people have ever failed to do that? Surely illicit sex can be much more tempting, and lust more addictive, than chocolate cake? Do we think eating the cake indicates a flawed character?

NotMyFinestMoment · 10/06/2018 20:20

@irregularchoices

I think the reality of the situation is THEY were not interested in you long term. They already had wife material at home. You were just something to do when they were bored.

RainySeptember · 10/06/2018 20:26

Understampable, I suppose all of your examples show weakness and a lack of willpower, but only one involves lying to someone you once loved in the most disloyal, cruel and humiliating way.

MrsPNani · 10/06/2018 20:27

I did it, we worked together, were good platonic friends (so I and I think he thought originally) and he had a young baby with his fiancée. I was young, naive and fell (so I believed at the time) head over heels in love. I was literally drowning in my emotions and at times suicidal. Our behaviour was terribly selfish and unjustifiable but I really believed it was meant to be at the time. It wasn’t, it went on for 8 months with him letting me believe we would be together “properly” one day. I eventually snapped, realised the reality of the situation and finished it, although he hounded me for years after (having married his fiancée and had more children along the way) - even though once I’d seen his true colours I found him repulsive, and told him so too. I think we both fell in love and were happy to tell ourselves that it was impossible to stay away from each other, which is in hindsight a load of shite as we never really tried. I’m genuinely ashamed and in no way defend my behaviour and I pray karma never gets me, although I know I deserve it.

I do believe you can’t help who you fall in love with, but you can certainly choose the least cruel path to happiness from that point forward. I know people who have done this and although there is the inevitable fallout they at least tried and as years go by people recognise that.

Although if it ever happens to me I’m sure I’ll feel very different!

GnomeDePlume · 10/06/2018 20:33

From what I have read on MN is that often the OW/OM just don't want to think about the cheated on partner. They have their fantasy bubble, reality doesn't come into it. Until it does - pregnancy, STI, being found out. Then reality in all its squalid details bursts the bubble.

diamondsandrose · 10/06/2018 22:12

My Dh'S OW when confronted was most indignant that there was a possibility she had also been lied to!

Hadn't crossed her tiny mind. She genuinely thought he had only lied to me. Thought she was the special one

Was happy to clear that up for her

ShamelesslyPlacemarking · 10/06/2018 22:49

You have both entirely missed the point. You are thick. I am not some performing seal. It's the other way around. I have a cleaner so I'm not exhausted. That's the whole fucking point. I don't have sex on demand. I do as I wish. I don't have self esteem issues. That's why i have a successful relationship. He knows and I know that I could easily get someone else. That's the point. I look fantastic. I am feminine. I am not afraid of losing him it is the other way around.

You don't get it and I can't help you. I don't give a fuck about you or your lives quite honestly. Find another thread to harass!

It's not that nobody gets it. I'm sure everyone here would be a load more relaxed in their lives and have more energy for their relationships if they had a daily cleaner and no financial worries (and possibly no kids, it's hard to tell from your posts).

It's that whatever your set-up is, it's clearly an uncommon one.

At least some of the poor, put-upon cheating husbands that you are so willing to believe are lumbered with wives who are nagging, frigid bores probably actually had wives who were doing their best to juggle family and their own lives with little to no input from the man who was meant to be their "partner", but who was instead off treating himself to the life he believed he was entitled to, ie the life he had before he willingly took on the responsibilities of marriage, home ownership and parenthood.

I think the truth is, as you say, you just don't give a fuck about anyone's life but your own. It doesn't require seeing people as possessions to have a sense of compassion for spouses who are being cheated on – just the ability to imagine those spouses as real people with complex lives of their own, not just trite stereotypes that are convenient for your own narrative.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 10/06/2018 23:27

I’ve never been the OW.

However my Ex cheated on me and it was a complete eye opener. I always thought that people cheated because they were unhappy, and because they had a lack of affection.

I spoke to a few of the women Ex cheated with me on. Some did not know I existed. Some did and those were all convinced that my poor Ex was trapped, unhappy, and not having sex with me. My Ex convinced himself that he was not able to ‘be true to himself’ with me to justify it, and gaslighted me and twisted it to seem that I was far too delicate to know the truth and poor him, he was lost and just needed a way out.

In reality we had a very full sex life, no problems, I was a pretty lovely wife! He did it because he could and because he has a ruthless selfish part of him. The women did it because they felt very special, thought this man who had a great job, high earner, family man, was their Prince Charming, they were a bit lacking in esteem or just didn’t care.

When I left my DH was devastated and still is. He wasn’t trying to escape. He was loving having his cake and eating it.

OP I’m so sorry for you. But I think your OW, by pretending to be your friend is just vile and selfish. Your DH is an utter fool.

Although I did see some research to say that men strayed because they could, women because they were unhappy. Obviously a generalization.

What my experience taught me is that it is 99% the cheater, their selfishness and the opportunity being there. Not about your relationship.

Huskylover1 · 11/06/2018 07:46

Bananasinpyjamas11 I could have written your post. My first husband was also a high flying career guy, plenty of money, family man, bla bla bla. I was the perfect wife, to quote irregularchoicess I was good looking, feminine, petite, I did all of the work around the home, gave him 2 lovely kids and we had a good sex life. This did not stop him cheating, at every opportunity.

I don't know what crap he fed his OW, no doubt he told lies about our home life.

And that's the thing irregularchoicess, if your Partner does cheat on you in a few years when maybe you don't look so fantastic anymore you have no idea what lines he will feed to OW.

Whereas you say that you have a daily cleaner, you don't do chores and you keep him on his toes, and he never thinks he's "got you", this would be twisted in a line to the OW as :

"She was so lazy, we even had to get a cleaner in every day, she was emotionally unavailable, she was vain and she was constantly telling me that she could get any man she wanted"

See how different that sounds?

The narrative would be twisted, to suit the receiving ear. And wham bam, her knickers are down. And you are the old husk, who was never nice to him.

diamondsandrose · 11/06/2018 08:29

Husky lover ditto everything here too

People can't believe my husband cheated on me, they are gobsmacked

Your post is spot on

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 11/06/2018 08:48

@husky and @diamonds completely agree with you. It’s such a shock. Until you experience it yourself, it’s really difficult to imagine such a ‘good guy’ could be able to be so ruthless.

A guy that can twist his home situation to make OW feel sorry for him has some scary personality traits that believe me, are not compatible with love in any shape or form.

Think about it. That person is able to take all the love, exclusivity and loyalty and trust from another human being, his wife and know he is secretly not giving any back. He willl still make love to her, look into her eyes and laugh with her, stroke her hair, be at her side when her parents visit, send little texts and hold her hand when she’s worried or just to feel close, cuddle her and their children. Then walk into another room to send a text to his lover saying how much he misses them. And a minute later kiss his wife with a big smile on his face.

That’s seriously messed up!

My DH, when the scales fell away even from himself, told me he wanted to take that side of himself who could be so cold and shoot it. He despised himself. Then he did it again a few months later.

AynRandTheObjectivist · 11/06/2018 08:52

Surely nobody really believes that men cheat because their wives are fat and boring? Beyonce? Halle Berry? Tiger Woods was married to a Swedish supermodel!

If being rich and beautiful were all it took, Hollywood marriages would be the firmest in the world!

MargoLovebutter · 11/06/2018 08:59

My ex-H and father to my two DC had an affair and I kicked him out 15 years ago, so I know how awful it is and the pain felt.

However, I think it is a BIG mistake to focus any attention on the OW. The person in the wrong here is the cheating spouse. They are the person who made the vows, made the promises, made the commitments and they are the ones who are absolutely and utterly in the wrong here. I am not an apologist for anyone who gets involved with married men, but they are not the ones at fault here and as long as we carry on addressing them, we are completely missing the point of what has gone wrong & who is doing the wrong thing.

Smudge, I appreciate that you feel doubly betrayed, as the OW in your case was someone you thought was a friend, but actually you hadn't made any promises to be faithful to her, you hadn't agreed to support her through thick or thin, to be her partner through life and all of that. Your betraying, arsehole husband was the person you said all those things to & he said them right back to you. Focus your rage on him.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 11/06/2018 09:02

@understampable
Do we think eating the cake indicates a flawed character? yes! At least a ruthless and selfish character! see my post above! My Ex DH broke me, I became physically ill, my son went through the trauma of his parents divorcing because of... his Dads desires put way above even his own child’s basic security. I’d call that flawed.

FreeHotDrinkAndCake · 11/06/2018 09:14

bananas I think that question was about literal not metaphorical cake eating

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 11/06/2018 09:28

@free the poster asked whether infidelity was always a flawed character as surely the temptation is comparable to the temptation of cake on a diet. My argument, well more like painful experience, is that the betrayal of succumbing to sexual infidelity is attacking the bond of trust. It’s affects are devastating.

Although I can see the similarities with finding out your partner had a serious drug addiction too. Although the sexual and love exclusivity would not have been torn apart, the serious lies and huge implications are comparable.

It’s another level entirely from cake so not comparable in any way in my book!

reeldoop · 11/06/2018 09:40

wow, interesting thread. Interesting to hear what people really think. I can see both sides, in some cases, but I just wanted to reassure you OP that it is a personality thing. I can be as manipulative, calculating and self-centred as the next person, and would and have cheated on partners before in drunken one night stands. But I can honestly say I would never behave the way the OW did with you and your then husband. I just don't have that ability to lie and deceive for months on end. And I am too empathetic to do that to someone that has done little to deserve it. I do think that people that can, like your ex and the OW, do have a different personality type and possibly are sociopaths.

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 11/06/2018 10:02

Do we think eating the cake indicates a flawed character? A weak and and self indulgent character, certainly. But in this analogy there are no consequences for anyone but the cake eater, unless you count the cake.

TheStoic · 11/06/2018 11:09

This thread is a perfect example of how infidelity damages everyone, no matter what point of the triangle they are on.

susiella · 11/06/2018 12:09

Did you get your dog back OP? I really hope you did.

MyAuntyBadger · 11/06/2018 13:51

Sorry that happened to you op, I have had similar experience with a family member currently going through a will he/won't he leave situation with a woman he met through a hobby. He has left and returned several times for the same ow in the last 18 months, so not much subterfuge involved but the ow hates the wife. Really, really hates her, to the point of obsession. Ow has had her mail and various other deliveries made to the marital home, the wife has answered the 'phone to people asking for ow, ow has introduced herself to their (adult) children in their places of work as their dad's partner. If she had the opportunity to deceive the wife out of anything material she would jump at the chance. I think the hatred is borne of jealousy - he is very successful and they have a very good life, ow wants the life, not just the husband.

Bananasinpyjamas11 · 11/06/2018 13:58

You are right @thestoic although when it’s not been discovered I’m sure the cheating person is having a great time! I swear my Ex thought he was Don Draper from Madmen

ICESTAR · 14/06/2018 13:58

I find this thread very cliche at time. I'm so glad my other half isn't like this. Just into tits and arse. He's more about a rapport and intelligence and someone to do things together. We share the chores and he mostly cooks as he loves doing it. Glad I don't have to like a stepford wife. I can wake up with my hair like worzel gummage and he still calls me beautiful. We work together and live together
We have an age gap but we've been together 12 years. We've had ups and downs like anyone but we've seen it through together. He isn't a cheat and never has been. Even his family say that. If He wants to look on my phone he can and I can look in his but we generally don't bother. Phones are left lying around. He's not perfect by any means bit at least I can trust him. Reading this thread sounds so sordid at the lengths people go to lie. I just think why cheat? Just be single if you want to live the single life.

ICESTAR · 14/06/2018 14:00

Times be like but not bit* sorry on my phone. Would have helped if I had read it properly before I posted.

Startoftheyear2018 · 14/06/2018 14:18

Bananas that is one of the most helpful comments I have read on MN. This is a useful thread. I tussle with that terrible loss of trust but Bananas point is about the depth of betrayal they must be willing to justified to themselves. I struggle to understand why my STBXH couldn't just end our relationship and then find someone else. It's understandable for a relationship to break down. It's not understandable to set up a new duplicitous relationship.