Being the other woman/conniving in deception/dropping the trapdoor

[Smudge100]

Six years ago I came home from work to find my then husband had thoughtfully changed the locks on the house before eloping with the woman down the road. When I finally gained entry, I discovered that they had everything useful and even my poor dog.

It’s a common enough story. However, the lady in question was someone I felt close to. She had successfully posed as a friend to both of us, so successfully in fact that I never had an inkling that she had having an affair with my husband for eighteen months. I was later to learn that they had planned their departure to coincide with her reaching pensionable age (at 50, I might add), so that they could both retire to the area where my then husband and I had for years planned to spend our twilight years. Every detail had been carefully put in place. I was left to discover over the ensuing few months not only how methodical and comprehensive their planning had been, but how heavily it had relied upon my ignorance of it. I still struggle with the scale of that duplicity and the extent of my own wilful blindness.

In the intervening years I have given considerable thought to the steely nerves and the sheer brazenness it must have taken for her to maintain that equaniminous demeanour of unruffled nonchalance whilst pursuing a project that she knew would rob me not just of my future, but my faith in human nature and in my own judgement. I’m not suggesting that she owed me a duty of loyalty – far from it - she owed me much less than my equally devious ex-husband. But strangely, I have actually wondered more about her role in it than his. My question is not: have you ever been the Other Woman? There have been plenty of threads in that particular well-worn vein, though I certainly wouldn’t want to discourage anyone with that particular experience from posting, in fact I’d be very interested to hear your point of view. It is however rather, have you ever been a party to the carefully-planned and protracted deception of a third party, particularly someone you knew well? If so, why? Was it for personal gain? Did you despise your victim? Feel they deserved what they got? Ever feel a tinsy bit guilty or the need to justify/rationalise it to yourself? What were your motives exactly? I’m not here to judge anyone, I’m long beyong that now, I’m just still curious about the psychological dynmamic of cheating, the whole process of misleading, placating, dissembling before another person, of not being yourself, of not showing your true face and the strain that places, if any, on the person practising deception. Please feel free to be brutally honest. If only they had been.

Honestly, I just don't understand.

I don't think that I could ever be happy if I knew that my happiness had come at the expense of someone else (or in the case of 2 married people having an affair lots of people's happiness.)

Someone up thread likened it to finding a purse that wasn't yours and I see the analogy - not that your partner is owned by you - but that you should do the right thing and not necessarily the most enjoyable.

When did we all get so entitled? If you want what someone else has got, just take it - be that stealing their car, fancy handbag or husband.

And honestly, if you have reasons for not leaving your husband right now, why can't you wait to start a new relationship until you have left? I have seen the fall out of affairs on innocent parties (OH, children) and it is awful. Some people I know have been affected well into adulthood by the parent's affair. The feeling that they weren't enough to stop that parent from straying, being unable to trust - the repercussions are huge.

Anyone having an affair deserves to be found out by everyone and to have all choices removed. The hurt visited upon the innocent parties is just so unnecessary.

@SweetieBaby

You don’t understand because you aren’t stuck in an impossible situation.

I’ll try once more. I am not having a relationship. Not hoping to ride into sunset with my MM.
I am just doing something that helps me get through a difficult patch in my life.
I get a few hours a week where I can relax and escape reality.
Some people drink, or do other things to achieve that. This is my vice.

I am not stealing someone’s purse. Not taking it home. It’s still there on the street. I walk by at times, look at it, touch it, and put it back.
If purse analogy is necessary.

But - in reality - it’s two people - with complimentary needs, that meet at times. And then go their own ways.

I think people of MN often project their own fears on others. Like GertieM said about me shagging your husbands.

You say affairs hurt children. And at the same breath you say - you wish all affairs came to light.
So your fears of losing your partner tramps the hurt you wish to unleash on children you don’t even know?

My ‘affair’ isn’t a reason why my marriage will one day fall apart.
And kids will eventually know the real reason - parents fell out of love; had different approaches to life; etc.
That is the relevant part.
Wishing them additional hurt - not sure why that is necessary.
What - to punish me?
Because I’ve done what to you, personally?

When did we all get so entitled?

Affairs are not a new phenomenon, although the rise of the internet has made them easier and more accessible.

@nhnhnhnh

You have made quite the assumptions about my life. I don't understand because I'm not stuck in an impossible situation? If you search my history you'll see that actually I am still with my cheating husband because I could not face being the person that ended the marriage, the person that changed my childrens' lives forever. Similar reasons that you have for staying, except that I'm not the person that wrecked my marriage. That was my husband. But I would rather take that pain on then give it to my children.

When I found out I wanted to tell the OW husband but both her and my husband begged me not to. They said that he was unwell, that her elderly parents were ill and that if I told them they would never recover and that I would be causing them pain. Following your rationale - I wouldn't be causing anyone pain because I didn't have the affair and that it's ok for me to do whatever it takes to make me feel better and to hell with the consequences? But I didn't tell. Because I couldn't live with knowing that I had caused so much pain to someone else.

The worst thing that I've ever had to experience was my daughter's reaction when she found out. It was awful.

I don't wish for children to find out about your affair. I wish for the cheated on husbands and wives to find out, for wider family and friends to find out so that the puppet masters suddenly become the puppets, no longer controlling events but being controlled.

That was the worst thing for me - having all choices taken away from me because I didn't know. He knew and the OW knew. They made decisions in their lives in full knowledge of all the facts. I didn't. I carried on carrying on. I did things for the benefit of our family, not only for myself.

And no it's not like finding a purse, looking at it, touching it but not taking it. If you insist on continuing this analogy it's like finding a purse, taking the contents out and setting fire to them and then taking the purse, ripping it into pieces and then setting fire to those, leaving nothing behind but the ashes. Yes, technically you haven't taken anything but what you have left behind is in ruins and bears no resemblance to what it looked like before.

The purse analogy isn't meant to refer to the affair directly. What the PP meant was that just because temptation arises it doesn't mean you have to succumb to it. So, you find a purse, no one around. You could take all the money, no one would know, or you could try and find out who the money belongs to and give it back. Which is the "right" thing to do? Would you say, "well take the money. You want to. You could spend it on yourself, cheer yourself up a bit. Don't worry about the rightful owner. They were careless to lose it so deserve what happens"?

My children haven't forgiven their dad. They used to worship him but no more. They are adults now and have made their own minds up. Be careful. Your children might not believe your little fairy story. They might judge you more harshly than you anticipate and you might lise them in the long run.

@SweetieBaby

I am sorry about your story.
And at the same time - I think you are projecting your situation on all ‘affair’ situations.
Mine isn’t as dramatic.
It’s not a secret, my close friends and family know that I am unhappy with H and want to divorce.
My Mom tried to convince me to psyche myself and have sex with my H - and try to make it work, because being on my own is a bad thing.
And I said - really, Mom?

I don’t have a ‘little story’ I need to convince my kids of.
My H isn’t all that happy in the marriage either and is hanging on for the kids too. And one day - it’ll end. We’ll both let go and stop the charade.

It’s not the same scenario as your H and your OW, that sounded like a proper affair.

nhn, if you are so determined to continue your unhappy marriage 'for the sake of the children' why can't you hang fire on fucking internet ransoms for a few more years too?

@RainySeptember

And why should I do that?
What I have now works for me - kids get a happier mother for a while.
And H - it’s his choice to stay in this marriage. With no sex or much affection.

Why do people feel that they need to judge or approve other people’s choices?

@nhnhnhnh it wasn't a 'proper' affair, whatever that is. The 2nd I found out it was over. They both told me that neither of them intended leaving, they certainly didn't want to be together. It just relieved boredom, bit of fun etc.

Your little story was you saying that eventually your children will be told mum and dad fell out of love , had different approaches to life. For their sake I hope you can convince them of this but you know, sometimes life has other ideas. I found out by accident. He sent me a text meant for her. That blew the thing wide open. Someone could find out about your affair. You might not be able to control things then so your children might be told "mum and dad split up because mum met some bloke on line and met up once a week for a quick shag".

That's the problem. You are screwing with people and their emotions so all bets are off. You have no way of predicting how people will react.

And I'm not projecting onto you. I'm explaining how it feels to be "the wife". You seem to think that the other people here don't concern you. That no one will get hurt. I'm trying to tell you different.

I'm a stranger on the internet but I'm judging what you are doing. What will people IRL think?

The 2nd I found out it was over.

Are you sure about that? Lots of affairs go underground.

Why do people feel the need to judge

What a daft thing to say. I hate this relatively new expectation of 'don't judge me'. If you're behaving like a shit, intentionally making choices that have the potential to hurt people, including your own dc, I'll judge you for it. You might not care one bit, but I'll form an opinion about you all the same.

And why should I do that? *Kids get a happier mother.
*
Lots and lots of reasons but I see now that you don't care about any of them, just making yourself happy 'for the kids'. They probably won't be so thrilled if they ever find out what's making you so happy though.

It's his choice to stay in a marriage without affection

He may have decided he can live with no affection 'for the kids' or because he still loves you, but he has no idea you're cheating on him so you're not giving him all the facts about his marriage that would allow him to make a fully informed choice.

I do wonder whether your selfless decision to stay is really about your children, or more about preserving your lifestyle - maybe it suits you to stay in your family setup, as a sahm or working part time for example, the less noble having your cake and eating it too.

Thing is, I think it is the people who expect relationships that span decades to remain 'exciting' that are deluding themselves. It is just not human nature.

The OW who is exciting, will become as boring as the wife they left. Not because she let herself go or 'nagged' but because everything that becomes familiar by its natures stops being exciting.

The first time you go to Rome it is magical. If you live there, you still love it I am sure but there will be aspects that really piss you off, are boring and tedious. Such is life.

I think the real key to a successful marriage is to continue to find value in the familiar, make an effort in the relationship of course but doing so through kindness and thoughtfulness is just as important (if not more so) than by being 'hot' or exciting.

Stop looking for 'amazing' and 'exciting' because by its nature it is transient and where does that leave you in the long term? With very little true richness in life. With a series of theme park like thrills to recount but nothing of any real substance.

I watch 24 hours in A&E and I am always in tears at all of the old couples supporting each other to the very end, many who have been through untold tragedy and difficulty in life. The true richness and realness of their relationships is my inspiration.

@BuenosAires

You've summed it up beautifully.

@RainySeptember

I am not trying to be noble, or be anything, or prove anything. Just living my life the way I chose to.
We all do...

And I am not staying in the marriage forever - it can’t go on like this I definetly. Life is too short.
My lifestyle won’t be affected but not hugely - after divorce.
Kids life will be - so it’s a hard step to make. So - delaying and thinking about the way to minimise the fall out for them is what I am doing.

As to judging people - I do wonder what others get out of it. As I tend to think that people have a right to do/chose their own path.
I don’t eat meat, but people who do - I don’t think are worse than me.
I couldn’t have an abortion myself - but same applies to people who chose to.
Etc.
If can be - that people feel so strongly about affairs, (also porn and strip clubs) because they come so close to home and threaten security of their partners being around.

nhnhnhn I too wonder what some people get out of being judgemental. My behaviour wouldn't be shaped by anything that a random person said to me, their views wouldn't matter. If I'm not impacting them then they have no reason to think they're entitled to have a view on what I do.

I've never said affairs are good, they aren't, because the potential for damage is huge. But nobody knows the reasons why other people do things and, if it's not directly affecting them, then it's not their business.

nhn, if you are so determined to continue your unhappy marriage 'for the sake of the children' why can't you hang fire on fucking internet ransoms for a few more years too?

Why? What would be the point?

The marriage is over. They are not in love. They are not sleeping together. They are not connecting, they have no physical or emotional intimacy. The only tie is legal. They're going to divorce, it's only a matter of time.

I'm not really convinced it's going to do the kids any good to delay the inevitable, but given that's what's going to happen and nothing's going to change, what difference would it make if OP stays celibate and frustrated for the next few years? What's the benefit? Who gains from that?

*Not their business
*
If you're going to post your personal life and dubious choices on a public forum, I think you should probably expect some comment, opinion and judgement.

What do I get out of it? Grim curiosity.

*What's the benefit? Who gains from that?
*
I think the right thing to do would be to (1) separate, (2) make her dh aware that he's no longer in an exclusive relationship so that he can make his own choices, or at the very least (3) seek men who are not in relationships where their partners think they're monogamous.

Feel free to disagree. It takes all sorts after all. But trying to tell me I can't have an opinion? Don't make me laugh.

I don't think it does the kids any good. They pick up on so much. Being aware from a relatively early age that my parents were only together for me caused me a lot of damage. It's a very big burden for a young child to carry, to feel that you are the cause of their unhappiness and that if you weren't there, they could be free of one another and happy. I'd have chosen seperated, happy parents every time. Everyone's family is different and you have to make decisions based on your own situation, I have no judgement either way but it's a perspective from someone who was the child of a "for the sake of the kids" relationship.

Feel free to disagree. It takes all sorts after all. But trying to tell me I can't have an opinion? Don't make me laugh.

Who told you you couldn't have an opinion?

You haven't said who would benefit from nhn being celibate until her divorce.

Ayn, why the fuck are you banging on about who benefits? I don't care who benefits, I haven't identified someone who benefits, I haven't mentioned anyone benefitting.

I have talked about the enormous catastrophic hurt that befalls everyone involved when an affair comes to light, including op herself and her dc.

I have suggested it's morally wrong to allow her dh to continue believing that he's in a monogamous relationship - let him make decisions and choices about his own life and marriage based on the facts.

I have wondered why op would want to collude with a MM who is hurting his wife.

I was the OW a few times in my 20’s, I liked the excitement of it. I never knew the wives though so never felt any guilt. I liked having the men at arms length tbh.

I am very sure I couldn’t do that to a friend though. I don’t understand how some women can, especially when over a long time. Sorry it happened to you OP.

Now I am older and wiser I’d never be the OW again-I don’t regret the past but I also couldn’t do it now. Live and learn!

Ayn, why the fuck are you banging on about who benefits?

Because I want to know why you think nhn should be celibate until her inevitable divorce. I can't see who benefits from that, given her situation, and it would appear that neither can you. Your lovely phrase 'hang fire on fucking internet randoms' implies that she shouldn't be having sex with anyone at all, single or attached.

Why not?

Rainy, indeed it's not your business or anybody else's. What sort of opprobrium are you aiming for and what will be the objective? To change somebody's mind? No. Sorry but your (general) opinion is just not that important. Releasing invective? Yes, that's about it.

So impotent judgement then is the extent of what you can do. What's the point of it? I wouldn't have been 'soothed' by meaningless platitudes from randoms who have no knowledge or any sort of investment in the shitstorm of my breakup either. If I were on the other side as an OW, I wouldn't post details here, there's no value in it. You only have to look at this board to see what 'entertainment' looks like.

I've been the OW a couple of times when I was younger. I was under no illusions that the men I was involved with were anything other than liars - they were cheating, after all. I got into both affairs because they were charming and loaded and it suited me - I enjoyed the fun times we had together, the frisson of deception and the fact that I didn't have to commit. I wasn't a very nice person and didn't really give their wives a thought - I figured that guilt was the men's to deal with - or not, as they never expressed it.

I'm not proud of it, and am married now with children which gives me a different perspective. At the time I didn't appreciate how much goes into building a family life - I just thought all that stuff was boring.

One of them contacted me via Facebook a few years ago. After the initial pleasantries it turned out he had just split from his third wife. I actually found it a bit pathetic that 15 years later he was still like a dog with two dicks.

Ayn, I'm baffled by your logic but in terms of who benefits from her abstaining from fucking internet randoms? I guess all of the people who would be hurt by the discovery of aforementioned fucking.

Lyin, I don't expect to change anyone's mind. You can't rationalise anyone out of an emotional position. They will either think you're wrong, or know you are right and get defensive. But if people weren't allowed to post opinion on mn there wouldn't be a lot left would there.