Being the other woman/conniving in deception/dropping the trapdoor

[Smudge100]

Six years ago I came home from work to find my then husband had thoughtfully changed the locks on the house before eloping with the woman down the road. When I finally gained entry, I discovered that they had everything useful and even my poor dog.

It’s a common enough story. However, the lady in question was someone I felt close to. She had successfully posed as a friend to both of us, so successfully in fact that I never had an inkling that she had having an affair with my husband for eighteen months. I was later to learn that they had planned their departure to coincide with her reaching pensionable age (at 50, I might add), so that they could both retire to the area where my then husband and I had for years planned to spend our twilight years. Every detail had been carefully put in place. I was left to discover over the ensuing few months not only how methodical and comprehensive their planning had been, but how heavily it had relied upon my ignorance of it. I still struggle with the scale of that duplicity and the extent of my own wilful blindness.

In the intervening years I have given considerable thought to the steely nerves and the sheer brazenness it must have taken for her to maintain that equaniminous demeanour of unruffled nonchalance whilst pursuing a project that she knew would rob me not just of my future, but my faith in human nature and in my own judgement. I’m not suggesting that she owed me a duty of loyalty – far from it - she owed me much less than my equally devious ex-husband. But strangely, I have actually wondered more about her role in it than his. My question is not: have you ever been the Other Woman? There have been plenty of threads in that particular well-worn vein, though I certainly wouldn’t want to discourage anyone with that particular experience from posting, in fact I’d be very interested to hear your point of view. It is however rather, have you ever been a party to the carefully-planned and protracted deception of a third party, particularly someone you knew well? If so, why? Was it for personal gain? Did you despise your victim? Feel they deserved what they got? Ever feel a tinsy bit guilty or the need to justify/rationalise it to yourself? What were your motives exactly? I’m not here to judge anyone, I’m long beyong that now, I’m just still curious about the psychological dynmamic of cheating, the whole process of misleading, placating, dissembling before another person, of not being yourself, of not showing your true face and the strain that places, if any, on the person practising deception. Please feel free to be brutally honest. If only they had been.

Rainy, that is very true. The only difference is that people feel an entitlement to expound on situations they really don't know about when it comes to affairs/cheating. It's unique to that, I think. Whereas other topics have a good deal of measured and commonsense responses, one sniff of an affair and all hell seems to break loose.

It's as you say, everybody does have opinions, it just seems that this topic makes for some exceedingly vociferous views.

I recognise your position to an extent, @nhnhnhnh. I was on Ashley Madison for a period at the end of my marriage, and it served a very useful purpose for me. Though my situation was much simpler as it was without children. I had not been touched with affection by my ex-husband for a very long time (4 years or so) and I found I genuinely didn’t know if I missed sex or even whether I enjoyed it. It felt like a hazy mystery. I couldn’t fathom if there was a way to be content in a sexless marriage or not. So after a few drinks one evening I signed up to AM to find a lover and try to work out what on earth I needed or wanted.

As others have said, these were not men with whom I wanted to form a relationship. I expected nothing from them, I certainly didn’t receive gifts or financial benefits from them (I’m a professional in the City, and I’m certain I out-earned almost all my partners). We had fun. In a couple of cases it was a huge amount of fun, pleasure, intimacy. We enjoyed talking - I often found married men wanted someone to talk to as much as anything (I’ve no doubt many of them would actually benefit from a good therapist). The curious upside of a site like AM is that it actually reduces the need for deception - there’s no need to lie because everyone is there for the same, ostensibly nefarious, reason. And yet some people are clearly lying their socks off. It’s an interesting dynamic.

Sexual fidelity is a pretty modern concept. Not very long ago marriage was simply a financial transaction and people had extra-marital affairs for pleasure, entertainment and sexual satisfaction as it suited them. The Victorians heralded the current concept of romantic monogamy. But there’s several theories that say it’s really a non-starter from an evolutionary perspective; it’s not how we’re wired and aiming for a 50yr long monogamous relationship is, perhaps, an unrealistic goal. The amount of forgiven/forgotten/disregarded infidelity in previous generations is far higher than many people would like to admit.

But people hold sexual fidelity on such a pedestal. It’s curious. When we happily have emotional relationships with a multitude of different people (family, friends, lover etc), why not sexual relationships? I have spent some time in ethical non-monogamous and polyamorous relationships and all I can say is it’s interesting and enlightening to try a different mindset. I can’t claim it will work for me long term but I think there’s value in being open to the idea, and considering very carefully why you prize a characteristic such as fidelity above all other loving characteristics.

The only difference is that people feel an entitlement to expound on situations they really don't know about

Most people have some knowledge or experience of adultery and have formed opinions as a result. That experience may be as a betrayed spouse, seeing a friend or family member heartbroken after discovering an affair, witnessing the fallout from an affair being discovered (including fallout for family of ow/om), being a child who learns - as a child or later as an adult -that one or both of their parents cheated in their marriage.

People do not have to have experienced adultery in the role of ow to form an opinion on adultery. In fact there are a great many situations in which it is acceptable to form an opinion without having had experience as the perpetrator.

@KatharineHepburn1

You make some interesting points but I think the key is whether all parties know the situation. So if both husband and wife know, and are happy, that they are in an open marriage then fine. That's their business and if it works for them that's great.

What I think is wrong is when a partner goes off and has an affair either physical or emotional without telling their partner. The sense of betrayal is enormous. I honestly cannot understand how anyone can justify visiting that much hurt on others. When affairs come to light the devastation that it causes to the partner, children, wider family and friends is terrible. How can anyone think that they have the right to cause that much pain?

Rainy, Indeed, but it is only (in my opinion) the role of being a complicit affair partner than wins you the full weight of public derision.

We all have experiences in lots of areas but to my knowledge, posters do not intrude to the same degree, in other relationship quandaries - irrespective of whether they themselves have that experience or not.

Ayn, I'm baffled by your logic but in terms of who benefits from her abstaining from fucking internet randoms? I guess all of the people who would be hurt by the discovery of aforementioned fucking.

So does this mean you object to her shagging other married people, or anyone at all?

Because I can get behind you on the former, as I've said already. If, however, you'd still have a problem if she was shagging single, unattached people, then I have to ask who would gain from her abstaining. Because I can't see the answer.

If you want her to lose several years in frustration and unhappiness, to nobody's benefit, I want to ask you why.

So do you have a problem with her shagging married men, or anyone at all?

My point was that it's not just the 2 people having the affair that are affected.

If the affair is discovered then the fall out is widespread.

She is staying in her marriage for the sake of her children but how will her children feel if they find out that their mum has been having a casual affair with someone they met online?

Why does anyone have the right to cause hurt to others?

how will her children feel if they find out that their mum has been having a casual affair with someone they met online?

Honestly...I suspect that when they are adults and realise the marriage was long dead anyway, and their parents were just waiting for them to get a bit older before they divorced...I think they will be a bit more understanding. And probably just wish their parents had divorced and made the clean break sooner.

If they're going to be affected by their parents splitting up at some point anyway, I don't see the point in putting it off until they're at an age that's shitty and awkward in any circumstances. But it's not my situation.

Understanding? No! A friend of mine discovered alot of truths about his mother about 5 years ago. Couple of affairs and secret weekends away. Neither him or his brother see her now. They didn't cut contact, they just pretty much ignore her from their lives and their new families. She destroyed them after what she did to their father. Be careful.

I guess in that case the husband was still invested in the marriage and wasn't aware that it was over.

If he was as checked out as she was, and they both knew it, then personally I'd struggle to feel that there had been any betrayal. Certainly I can't see why he'd care what she does if they're no longer in love and just waiting it out. But people are different.

I used to work in a large company and there was this god awful girl who shagged a lot of the married bosses there.
She was utterly deluded. She felt that the fact that they were married and the risk they were taking must make her utterly irresistible.
It elevated her poor sense of self esteem.
The other girls in the office distanced themselves from her, they weren’t jealous, she was just a bit of a deluded minger.
I met some of the wives at our corporate days out, lovely, attractive ( one was a swimwear model) and our boss was sticking his dick in this ugly slag.
It beggars belief

Headup, and what do you think of all the married men who shagged her? Or is she the only revolting one?

Exactly! Ugly slag? Wow - Way to go with the sexist claptrap. I don't condone what she's done - but can't see how the men get away Scot-free. If she had low self esteem then shame on them!

Tbh, I suspect that post is a troll. It's just so clunky and OTT. With that said, the sentiment is so common that it's hard to be sure. It's just so badly written.

Whether it's a troll or not, either way it's a case of a thick and sexist dipshit, and Lord knows we've no shortage of those.

Mm, you know...the convenient swimwear model is what's tipped it for me. It's a troll, but sadly it's not as clever as it thinks it is, because so many people really do think that way.

Oh god that was the point I was trying to make, she was awful, so we’re all the dick heads shagging her.
Those poor wives!

Oh god that was the point I was trying to make

Then why didn't you make it?

You called the woman a 'god awful girl', 'utterly deluded', 'a deluded minger' and an 'ugly slag'.

What did you call all the married men who slept with her?

Sadly some people have a very broken moral compass and think being a serial shagger is clever and fun.

My ex-boss, a married executive woman in her 40s had numerous affairs whilst I worked for her. She didn't care if her conquests were married. She boasted openly about her wicked past. She horrified me one day by claiming that she could get a very happily married colleague of ours into bed easily if she could be bothered putting in the work to drive a wedge between him and his wife.

I don't work for her any more.

The thread is about ow, that could be why pp focused her post on the female colleague rather than the awful men.

The thread is about ow, that could be why pp focused her post on the female colleague rather than the awful men.

I don't mean to be rude, but...bollocks.

Oh come on now ayn, you really must practise your 'not meaning to be rude' skills.

...and bollocks again. It's ALWAYS the woman who is eviscerated. Always.

 @RainySeptember  Mumsnet at its best! Funny

Have to say though I agree with @RainySeptember and @LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

About time we stopped constantly blaming the women. Poor little men who can't help themselves.

Actually I remember my mum saying exactly this when I was young. As in - women shouldn't dress provocatively because men have urges and can't always help themselves.

She'd deny it now, but she did!

Mine did too, nomore. Ankle chains were a no-no too - I've never owned one. Like yours, my mum forgets that she ever said such things.

Oh come on now ayn, you really must practise your 'not meaning to be rude' skills.

They are shit, I grant you. Can't argue with that.

But what you said WAS bollocks. Women are ALWAYS being blamed for men's shitty behaviour, be it extramarital sex, rape, street harassment, the lot. Fuck, they're even blamed when men aren't doing anything wrong and they're just two unattached people having consensual sex. You might like to consider the fact that there is no male equivalent for the sexual insult 'slag' which Headsup levelled at the woman (there's also no equivalent for 'slut', 'whore', 'bicycle' and a whole load of others that I won't repeat here because they're just too hateful and revolting. Even 'minger' is almost exclusively levelled at women. Presumably it's more acceptable to fuck married men if you're pretty?).

Of course it's wrong to shag married people and you shouldn't do it. But I'm sick to the back teeth of men acting like turds and women being blamed for it. "Bollocks" was really a very mild term for your suggestion that there was some other reason for it.