Partner says I have no goals

[Miserysquared]

Feeling a bit sorry for myself this morning I think. Had a sort of row with my OH last night.

I have a stressful job, and often work later hours than I am contracted for, I also get badly paid and my boss can be a bit of an asshole. I have to make a change but I find change particularly difficult, and also feel a sense of loyalty to my current workplace. We have had many many many discussions about my job previously. I was prescribed an anti-anxiety medication 6 months ago and have been seeing a CBT counsellor for a few months because work stress (and other life stress) sort of triggered some OCD.

OH says I have been coming home in a state of "defeated exhaustion" of late and that I need to make changes. He is an artistic type who has a 9-5 office job but pursues his "true passion" in the evenings or whenever he has a new project to work on. He has a big goal in life and he doesn't understand why I don't have something like that in my life.

I just don't though. I think when I was younger I had goals, get a degree, buy a house, get a job...all that sort of normal stuff. Probably I was more idealistic and more engaged with issues that mattered to me, but I suppose I see part of growing up as surrendering yourself to the mundane of life. The reality is we need money to buy food so we have to work, regardless of whether we would rather be climbing mount Kilimanjaro (which I don't have any ambition to do either).

I don't even know what i'm trying to ask. He told me he can't understand how I can live life with no big goal to look towards and thinks my life is empty. I feel like he is judging me because I see life differently. For me life is just something to endure.

Anyway...I was upset that he kept telling me I had to "find something" to aim for. He went to bed early clearly feeling exhausted from dealing with me, and I stayed up to the early hours reading and then slept in the spare room.

He left early for work and walked to the train rather than taking a lift with me when I drive to work.

We are supposed to be getting married in October and now I just feel like he thinks I am a loser and that I won't be enough for him unless I try to find something bigger to aim for.

Just not really sure what to do with myself this morning and can't concentrate at work because I feel crap that we have had a row and there is tension.

I don't think it has the makings of a married life to look forward to, for him or you. Change is hard, but the first thing you need to sort out is changing this job. His hobby packed life, or a contented homebird life are equally valid (though might be incompatible), but your current life does not sound good for anyone. Take care and do try to take opinions on board without using them to beat yourself up with, you can sort this.

You sound burnt out and depressed.

He told me he can't understand how I can live life with no big goal to look towards and thinks my life is empty.

I can't understand someone whose life is empty if they don't have a big goal to work towards.
I do think you sound very sad and tired, and it's concerning that you describe life as something to endure- but there is a happy middle ground between that and having to have a goal to work towards to feel complete. I don't have any real goals at present, certainly no big projects on, and I don't feel empty at all. I would find it very hard to be in a relationship with someone who took that viewpoint, tbh.

All that aside, maybe speak to your GP about how you feel and whether you are depressed, not just anxious. Don't focus on how your partner feels, and don't go on the basis that to be good enough for him you have to become some goal driven go getter who looks around for a new target every time they achieve something- but because you deserve to feel better.

Sorry to bang on, op, but when your oh is doing his 'true passion' in the evenings, are you left with all the grunt work?

There's a huge range between having big life goals on the one hand, and feeling that life is there to be endured on the other. You don't necessarily need to make huge life changes, but perhaps spending some time working on yourself and what makes you happy might benefit you. There's nothing wrong with being happy to potter about at home, reading and watching box sets, if that is what makes you happy. But you don't sound happy.

If setting a life goal sounds too daunting, maybe try one evening a week where you focus on doing something for you. Mindfulness, yoga, go for a walk, go for a drink....it doesn't have to be big or scary.

It's hard to tell from your post whether your fiancé was having a go at you or lovingly raising a valid concern about your mental health. Sometimes when we're depressed we tend to put the most negative spin possible on what people say to us. Do you think that might be true here?

It sounds to me like you're really depressed, actually. That feeling really weary and exhausted - it might be due to your job (which sounds shit) or it might be due to deeper issues, but I know for me, one sign that my mental health is in trouble is when I stop creating things, give up on hobbies and start fantasising about running away to a small hut in the middle of nowhere where I can just sleep and look at the trees. I also get this dreadful disconnection where I just shut off my emotions and shut off from the world and just feel sort of numb. And it can take me a while to notice that I'm doing it, so it's good that you have noticed it in yourself!

I would say that something in your life is really out of balance somewhere, and your feeling that life is just something to endure is a symptom of this, as is that feeling of disconnection. Although CBT can be helpful for anxiety, all the therapists I know refer to it as a 'sticking plaster' as it can help you deal with symptoms but doesn't really treat the cause of your unhappiness. It sounds like you really need some proper, more in-depth therapy to try and uncover what this is all about. Can you afford to see someone else? Maybe someone who does CAT or psychodynamic therapy?

I think your partner has a point, but just telling you to find a goal or take up some hobbies, or even quit and find a new job, is not really very helpful as it's impossible to start doing that sort of thing when you're in a bit of a hole. for you and I hope you manage to find a way through this.

He isn't having a go, I just feel like it is another thing I am failing at, so it feels critical. He is really supportive and if i told him i did want to climb a mountain he'd be all for it.

Hi passion projects he generally does later at night, so he does his fair share around the house. He's actually very neat and tidy. I tend to do the cooking more often because he is capable of doing it but really slow, so if i have come home from work later than i'm supposed too I think i should just cook because at least we can still eat at a normal time.

He's really nice and patient, I think sometimes he is worried and just dives into a conversation and i sort of retreat or go quiet and then nothing gets resolved because i disengage. I think I am definitely a pain to deal with at times.

Oh gosh. A few thoughts.

1. No, not everyone has a 'big goal' in life, in fact I think few people do. Your DP comes across as lacking in empathy - and in awareness of other people around him. As if he lives in his own goal-oriented bubble. Ask him to list everyone he knows, including older relatives, colleagues etc alongside their 'goal'. I don't think he'd find it easy. I also think he'll find himself resorting to 'being a great parent' and other expressions of mundane domesticity (from his perspective). He also sounds very much like a religious zealot - the church of self-realisation.

2. He's saying you're boring. Can he live with that, with you? Can you live with him having that idea of you? Is he saying you've lost the spark that first attracted him? In a few years, is he likely to run off with someone ever so passionate about their art (or whatever) who just happens to be younger and have fewer domestic responsibilities? The point isn't to pretend in order to keep him, it is to consider who you really are, what you both want from life, whether you're truly compatible and whether your expectations of life and of each other are realistic.

3. You don't have to have a grand goal to have hobbies. You do need a work-life balance. You do need to exercise to stay mentally and physically healthy. Everyone does. People get away with a poor balance and no exercise for a while but it catches up with them.

4. Most people develop goals organically by doing things, trying things. You do have do things for new ideas and interests to follow, then refine themselves. You cannot do nothing and wait for a thunderbolt of inspiration to hit. That will not happen. It doesn't matter what you try really, finding out what you don't like that you thought you might is useful too and can lead you in a different direction. You can't predict what connections you'll make. The journey can be as or more important than the goal - that is, if you like, a creed of self-realisation atheism, to counter his goal-oriented zealotry.

5. Your loyalty to your work is almost certainly misplaced. No-one is irreplaceable. If your boss is unpleasant (and you haven't become the boss) it looks like your work doesn't value as much as you do them.

6. Workplaces usually respect people with a good work-life balance far more than those who dedicate their lives to work. The impression given, which is often but not always correct, is that the balanced person has better time-management skills, better judgement, better ability to prioritise. That is, they would make a better manager. Slog though all the hours with no sense of perspective people usually remain junior. Of course there are areas of work where everyone does crazy hours. You know whether you're in one of those or not.

7. But... is your DP free to live in his special goal-oriented bubble becuase you do all the grunt work? Who does the household admin, deals with bills, budgets etc? Who is doing the wedding planning? Who will plan the holiday? Then there's the physical drudge work. How are hosuehold tasks split? Who cleans the loo? There's a very good chance, statistically speaking, that you both work FT then you do 80% of the domestic work. Thus freeing him to focus on the fun stuff. Ring any bells?

So.... based on what you've said, my impression is that you need to carve out some time for specific leisure and exercise activities, for yourself, for your health, sanity, resilience and enjoyment of life.

Yes, life can be mundane - someone needs to deal with the mundane stuff. So if that's falling to you, the best thing he can do his shoulder his fair share. If that impinges on his life's work, well tough. You're not his servant. If his leisure activity needs to be facilitated by you, then so does yours - whatever it may be - by him.

Everyone gets a bit bogged down at work and with life sometimes and feels like they've plateaued. Most people feel overwhelmed at times. You can't always be climbing the ladder and doing new things. It is important though to have an idea of how you want your career to play out, to think about your next step. Also, to show some self-respect in the workplace. No-one will respect you if you don't respect yourself.

So I think you do need to make a few changes, for your own sake. Also, to do some thinking and talking about life is going to be in future and how you can both make it better.

That was a lot longer than I thought it would be!

I would go and get your thyroid, iron and b12 checked. Also talk to your counsellor to see if you’re depressed. At the moment, you haven’t given yourself the time needed to stop and reflect on your innerlife. I have gone through same thing with DH and regretfully wasted a lot of my life due to not realising my aniexties - both general & social as well as fear of failure causing me to not start anything! I used to think I had no idea what my passions were but they were there all along hidden by my fear and doubts. I made a list of things I love to do and things that make me happy. For example, even something as simple as you love eating chocolate or you love cooking an international cuisine , could lead to taking a chocolate making course or a day cookery course on making fresh pasta. If you read, have a look at your books, what subjects do you read most about? Or what subject could you easily read 200 books on? That’s a main passion/ interest right there! Maybe you love going to new places or travel. If you love being in nature, you could find stuff related to that. The mind hates changes, it loves what is familiar. But you need change to get out of your rut. Nothing new and exciting is going to happen while you stay where you are. It’s like living in a hut in the middle of the wilderness, obviously every day will be the same. By trying something new, something small like the chocolate making course for example, you meet new people which leads to new ideas and opportunities and it could take you off into a new direction. You could think you love working with chocolate but end up with a passion for mould making, You don’t have to automatically arrive somewhere. You don’t need to force it. Just take a different path, don’t worry where it goes, let yourself got lost, take detours and just let new things unfold. That’s how you will discover new goals. I gave myself a way to start new things by getting my mind out of the all or nothing mentality I had. It was okay to just do the first step knowing, I’m only testing the water. I can stop and turn around. Now I’m like I can’t wait to try 10 things! Who cares if I don’t complete those ten things, it’s going to give me a better idea of what my strengths are passions are. It hurt when my husband told me I did nothing with my life, however not half as painful as realising how much time I had actually wasted!

I think he is trying to help you see that there is more to life - more to YOU, than you currently have. Of course don't ignore the day-to-day but hey, dream a bit? Doesn't have to be skiing naked down Everest. You might see it as him being a bit negative but, looked at another way, he is trying to nurture you to your full potential. Relax and do a bit of 'what if' thinking.

Tv and culture teach us that everyone has to have a big 'dream' but the majority of people will be average! Some people just want to enjoy life and not shoot for the stars and that is just fine.
If everyone was extraordinary, nobody would be.

having had this said too me in the past and having later on said it to someone myself once i had "improved" , as a pp said, your husband is telling you he finds you boring . if he met you now would you still be the fun interesting catch he chose to be with years ago? as harsh as it is, you risk losing him (and any1 else) unless you find something to be motivated about and to help u be an interesting , fun person to be around.

This could have been me 7 or 8 years ago. It was my physical health that was bad but my whole life was struggling to get through the work week, and the rest of the time resting so I could work. I became increasingly withdrawn until I could no longer function. In the end I had to stop working. At that point I had no interests, no hobbies and no social life - DH spent all our time at home together outside of work and we were both very low.

After I stopped working I spent a long time doing nothing as my health was so bad. I decided to learn some crafts even though I wasn’t creative at all. I ended up running businesses based around those things and they gave me a purpose and something tangible to show for my time. I’m now a paper artist, or was before I had my twins - don’t get much time these days but still knit and crochet around caring for them. I have a part time job with the NHS that I’m passionate about. I feel much happier.

Try the book, 'the subtle art of not giving a fuck' it helps with exactly this problem c

Thanks for taking your time to reply.

My partner is actually all things told really good with the domestic side, I cook so he washes up or vice versa, he cleans the bathroom and bedroom, i do the living room and kitchen. He does the bins and the clothes wash. We have pretty equal pay, although I am severely underpaid, which is also a bone of contention.

Realistically I could find another job without a massive amount of difficulty and could have a very good salary increase, I just don't do it. Sometimes I get close to doing it, but I never quite get there.

So you have the potential to earn more money - very easily - and have a better home life and you are choosing not to do it!??
Again, you need to tackle this with your counsellor.
See how you can break it down into easy, small steps to get to the end goal.
That there - on it's own is a goal.
Make that your next goal.
Put a time frame on it and get it done by then.
It will be hard. With your anxiety and fear of change it really will - but you just need to make small steps each day, or if that is too much, each week, until you get there.

You need to leave your job. It is so hard to even think straight when all your brain can focus on is a job that you are not enjoying. It makes you mentally exhausted. You need to step away from the job so you can just breathe and stop and pause and look at life. Tell your partner you need to do this - this is your goal in life. 'Finding yourself' sounds cheesy but sometimes it has to be done.
However if you are thinking though that you have no clue what interests you try this (and this might sound daft) think back to what you really enjoyed when you were aged 10 or so and see if it can be adapted into adult life. Things you do at age 10/11 often get pushed to once side when you enter the exams exams world of secondary school. For example I used to like sewing for clothes for my Care Bear - now I enjoy going to Hobbycraft and buying simple craft kits and going to craft fairs etc. If I wanted to turn that into a money making thing I could - for now I just have fun, but if you try something out who knows where it could lead your life.
Good Luck.

I was really active as a child, and into late teens. Was on literally all the sports teams, competed nationally and really enjoyed drawing, and actually climbing mountains although small ones. I think I just hit a-levels and then it was a degree and then a masters and then a professional qualification and life was just no fun anymore. Now i'm in what people think of as a good or proper profession, but am basically getting paid next to nothing and feel embarrassed about it, but also think that because it is a small company if I leave it will have actual consequences for the business and for my support staff.

I just think I've made a mess of my life.

I think the phrase 'a change is a good as a rest' has great resonance here, with your work situation.

I've found it true to an unexpected extent in the past. It is so easy to get bogged down in the particular constraints and miseries of one workplace, that you start to see that as being archetypal of all work and workplaces. Doing a similar job in a different workplace could be massively different, a 'feeling valued' and a work-life balance revelation, if the internal culture is better.

Unless you are the owner of the business it's not your problem. What do you get for your loyalty? What will have gained for it in five years time? Will you be a partner, sharing profits?

You may be dismayed to find that they are quite easily able to replace and/or restructure and move forwards, if they have to.

You poor soul.
You're too worn down to dream. You sound like a woman who's retired from life.
Passions don't have to be Everest-sized.
I've been working on a book for 6 years. It will never see the light of a publisher's day, but who cares?! Writing it has taken me through an extraordinary historical journey. It's been so fulfilling and mind-expanding.
You don't need to set the bar to Bear Grylls' standards or embark on a motorbiking journey across the Gobi desert. Your dream(s) can be fulfilled in your front room. Dreams don't have to be full of adventure. They are a birthing process, not an adrenaline rush.

Read all of those books you've never gotten around to.
Grow the indoor window sill tomato garden you always thought you'd do.
Keep bees!
Join a stable, learn to ride and groom horses.
Learn piano.
Learn anything... learn something new that is not work related.
Feed your soul.
Go to the theatre.
See more concerts.

Those may be totally silly, poor examples of dreams but you get my drift.
I planted my first herb garden this Spring... at 46 years old. It's my first little plot of herbs which have grown beautifully and brought out my inner Nigel Slater. It's been the smallest birthing process which has brought me a universe of pleasure.
I dream on a small scale. That's all one needs.
I am an insular person. I don't do 'big, daring, exciting, or spontaneous'. Still, my dreams are there and they are mine. Some of them become reality.
Your dreams are yours to make you happy. They are not an obligation or an accomplishment you need to achieve in order to please your partner or anyone else.
Your dreams are a reminder of your vitality, the very essence of you. Your dreams reconnect you to your heart and your mind and give back to your soul what work demands and the humdrum, mundane 'life' shit robs us of.
Your partner loves you and he wants you to step into life with him and grab it with both hands- even if it's just planting some foxgloves in the garden and watching them grow. Do something that delivers joy and do it for you.
Above all, change your job, OP. You need movement in your life. Shake up your passions a bit. Your job is killing your spirit. Don't be afraid of change. Claim your joy.

Also, while I'm throwing phrases around, do ponder the sunk costs fallacy. Just because you've wasted the last few years (in some ways, by being over-loyal to your dead-end employer) does not compel you to continue to do this.

In fact a proper sunk costs fallacy would be based on an idea of there being some reward in sight for your investment of time and effort so far. The point there being that just because you've expended costs towards a goal, does not compel you to continue to expend more, if on balance the goal itself is not worthwhile, or there are cheaper ways, from where you're standing now, to achieve a similar or an acceptable outcome. Aka 'concord fallacy' as that was an example of 'throwing good money after bad' because the goal was so enticing (but economically crazy).

Whereas in your case, there isn't a reward in sight, at your workplace, that you've mentioned.

And you have not made a mess of your life.
There is no such thing... unless you're a murderer on death row. There's one exception.
But you have messed up nothing. You're just in a rut and you need to be pulled out of it. It's hard to do on your own. And I think your DP is attempting to throw you a line, but he's unsure how to do this.
This is love. It's not the roses and the sweet nothings and rumpled sheets. It's the person who sees you in the shadows and wants you to see the light and isn't afraid to give you the boost you need.

OP, I have stumbled and tripped all over my messy life path. But it's the mess that's led to so much beauty, so much joy. Yin and yang, all of that. You need the shadow to know the light.

I know how you feel op. I remember being at that point, ground down by work and having a non-sleeping toddler. A photographer came in to do corporate photos at work which were meant to be spontaneous and he asked about interests, hobbies and I just kept saying I had none. It was a bit of a wake up because I realised I didn’t want to be that person. Now I have found things I enjoy doing it’s actually been a confidence boost. I think it’s something you can decide to change.

I don't think you necessarily need to have big goals or dreams. My DH is a bit like yours but I'm more like you and just want to have a nice life, feel content and spend the evenings pottering about, watching TV, reading, whatever.

However, I can see why he feels frustrated about your job situation. By the sounds of things you have no reason to feel guilt or loyalty or anything towards your current employer. Get out there and find a new job!

I wonder if half a dozen sessions with a life coach specialising in careers would be useful for you?