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Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 19:32

Most South Aisians wouldn't offer a cup of tea. They'd consider it the height of rudeness to offer food and drink. It would just be put in front of you for you to help yourself.

This is where cultural differences are so important. It's the norm to offer drinks in many British households but a South Asian might see it as rude.

needyourlovingtouch · 03/06/2018 19:32

Always offer tea and biscuits/cake here. Wouldn't offer a full meal unless we had specified before eg come over for lunch.

needyourlovingtouch · 03/06/2018 19:33

And I'm southern

DuchyDuke · 03/06/2018 19:36

I’m Indian too and grew up in a rough Irish / Gypsy area where despite the parents of friends being a bit racist against me, they would never leave me hungry. I agree the examples you mentioned are class related - in general the poorer you are the more hospitable you are.

Having said this, in my experience, Punjabi Sikh manners only extend ‘to their own’ and not to other races (or even other types of Indians). I have been to Punjabi Sikh houses and not been offered anything to eat or drink the whole day - but that’s just the people I know. I’d never tar an entire region with the same brush.

Olddear · 03/06/2018 19:37

Scottish here. Everybody gets a cup of tea and a biscuit, be you friend or tradesman. No-one leaves without being given or offered something.

French2019 · 03/06/2018 19:41

Hmm. I'm white British and grew up in the south of England. No visitor ever came to our house without being offered a drink, at the very least. Usually tea/coffee for adults or cold drinks for children. Snacks/biscuits were generally offered too. I think it's highly unusual not to offer anything.

My dd has been to loads of houses over the years, and is invariably offered something, regardless of the cultural background of the hosts. The only exception has been when she went to her Muslim friend's house recently, but said friend and her parents were obviously fasting so she didn't expect to be offered anything and wouldn't have accepted if they had.

It seems that you may have encountered some particularly ungenerous hosts, OP, and I think you have been unlucky. Having said that, my DH is Punjabi and you're quite right that Punjabi hospitality (like Arab hospitality) is on another level entirely. I have really been very touched by how incredibly welcoming people are, even when they barely know you and I have tried hard to learn from this in order to look after my own guests in the same way. I hope that I'm now a more welcoming host as a result.

Having said that, I do sometimes cringe at the sheer volume of "treats" typically pushed at my dd in a Punjabi household!Shock Now she is old enough to self-regulate, it's not so bad, but when she was little, she wanted to say yes to everything! I knew that people were just trying to be kind, and thankfully I'm pretty relaxed about that kind of thing, but some parents might find it a bit much I'm afraid!

sugarnotsweetener · 03/06/2018 19:42

@redlily84
I am white British and generous with my in laws but they give gifts to my daughter like yours do - they’re white british too so not a cultural thing just a rubbish inlaw thing!

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 03/06/2018 19:42

I'm (mostly) white Scottish.

Kids can't knock on the door to ask if my son is playing out without me offering them water and a snack to take away.

If they come to play after school they get a meal but I would generally check with a parent what they would like to eat.

My children would tend to offer a drink or a snack too.

I don't always have biscuits etc in as I don't entertain much but if I have things in I offer them around.

I've been in situations where someone has offered food and hasn't wanted to take no for an answer which is awkward. But so is walking over to someone and not being offered a drink of water in the heat.

Most families I grew up around would have a biscuit tin and would bring out drop scones etc.

Can't speak for Edinburgh though.

It can feel like undue pressure to be expected to feed visitors or equally to expect guests to have food with you, listening to people who are not used to it.

It's just that people have different ways of doing things.

I can't imagine not offering a hot drink. I'm a bit thrown if somebody wants milk as I don't always have it though.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 03/06/2018 19:43

Meant to say most other families kid3 visits are the same. Sharing snacks etc.

French2019 · 03/06/2018 19:44

Having said this, in my experience, Punjabi Sikh manners only extend ‘to their own’ and not to other races (or even other types of Indians). I have been to Punjabi Sikh houses and not been offered anything to eat or drink the whole day - but that’s just the people I know.

Interesting. That hasn't been my experience at all.

Mookatron · 03/06/2018 19:48

I don't think your generalisations are correct, but even if they were it would be a cultural difference and therefore should be respected.

There's no RIGHT way to do things. That said, I've never been to someone's house and not been offered a drink.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 03/06/2018 19:53

Yes OP. You do indeed sound a bit racist. Certainly not my experience of being raised in the north. You need to open your mind a bit, think a bit harder, and widen your social circle.

ravenmum · 03/06/2018 19:54

OP, if you look for bad things, you'll find bad things. Try deliberately looking for positive things for a change, it will make you happier.

Littletreefrog · 03/06/2018 19:57

This is not my experience at all. I'm white British working class and make sure I have a range of drinks and snacks in if I know visitors are coming. If they come unannounced they are offered anything I have in and as the shop is at the end of the road I offer to nip and get them something if they don't like what I have. We have a whole draw in the freezer for ice pops for the kids friends in the summer who know where they are and just help themselves, even if they are playing in the street not in my house they all pop in for them.

findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 20:04

I think it's fair to say there's a difference in the amount of food and drink offered between the two cultures. I don't see that as racist in any way.

However, I think it's wrong to say people are mean spirited as those who don't offer as much typically don't expect it in return so how can that be mean spirited?

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 20:05

That's a nice positive message and I agree. Smile

OP posts:
fascinated · 03/06/2018 20:17

Maybe these people are racist and that’s why you are not offered anything? Who knows... it’s certainly bizarre to be offered NOTHING

fascinated · 03/06/2018 20:22

Also, such is the ubiquity of treats and junk nowadays that I’m more annoyed about my kid being given too much food than not enough

Water and drinks are obviously a different story

All adult guests are offered a cuppa or a water here,but no biccie, for which most people are grateful as it removes temptation

Racecardriver · 03/06/2018 20:26

I expect that all of these white purple were lower class (wealth isn't a class indicator BTW so it didn't matter whst they can afford). I have never visited anyone who behaved that way nor would I behave that way. It's called manners. It so happens that basic hospitality is one of the basic rules of etiquette that the British lower class rarely practice. It isn't because they are miserly, or just genuinely doesn't occur to them.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 20:26

That's an interesting thought which hadn't even crossed my mind. People are interpretating my post as racist. I honestly try to distance myself from those thoughts as much as possible and expect it from others

OP posts:
Mof3K · 03/06/2018 20:32

Then perhaps don't lump all " white " British people in together then.

Imagine the uproar if I said I find all people who weren't white rude and irritating

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 03/06/2018 20:33

Racecardriver are you real?

JellySlice · 03/06/2018 20:34

I'm a daughter of immigrants, dh is a born-and-bred Yorkshireman. While our parents struggle to find any common ground when they meet (or even understand each other's accents!) one thing that both households have in common is that the guest is to be looked after and fed. The only difference is in the lavishness and emotion: my parents are more dramatic, excited, and will offer more and more to eat and drink, whereas my ILs will do it all in a far quieter, more subdued manner. There may not be as much on the table at one go, but you will not leave hungry.

I suspect that your experiences, OP, speak more about the individuals than white British culture.

Though one cultural thing might be to not ask questions. (My ILs do exactly this! Hmm) If you don't know how to look after a guest with a difference, ask! But many Brits would die rather than ask "Is there anything you don't eat?" So the internal dialogue might be "A Sikh? I don't know! Are they the ones who don't eat pork or the ones who don't eat prawns? Aaaargh! Best not offer the wrong thing! If I don't do anything, I won't get it wrong."

Soulcakequack · 03/06/2018 20:35

My family are very southern going back many generations and solidly middle class. Invited guests are incredibly well catered for lots of food and drink on offer. No ones leaves without being offered enough food and drink for a week!! With play dates after checking with parents a mix of healthy and treat food / drinks are offered.

However, drop in guests arent usual and tend to be short. Mainly due everyone working long hours and different work patterns. In these cases it’s rare for more than a cuppa to be offered.

Grief is quite a private affair for us and although cards and flowers would welcome, stopping for an hour might not be. My parents were barely able function after an expected brevement let alone cater to visitors. I would’ve ushered out any unexpected visitors it wasn’t the time for polite.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 03/06/2018 20:37

Ime it's not working class people who are tight with hospitality.

It's not racist to notice difference between white people and people of your own ethnic origin.

It's also not racist to criticise trends and practices of white people. Like colonialism or reporting people of colour to the police for public swimming or walking on streets or having a barbecue.
Racism is racial prejudice that relies on privilege ie white privilege.

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