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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
scottishdiem · 04/06/2018 00:04

I won't be going back in a rush for that reason!

Which would be a shame for your childs friendships I think.

Loandbeholdagain · 04/06/2018 00:05

Like the previous poster. I get annoyed and don’t go back if my child is offered sweets/chocolate/cake etc when at a play date.

Turkkadin · 04/06/2018 00:06

I would expect my children to be offered a drink when at friend's houses but they are teenagers so can ask for a drink themselves if they need one. They have gone to friends before and not been offered anything and they have gone to other houses and had a snack and a drink. It's just not important to me at all. They will survive. I would rather they weren't offered too many treats because like most kids they will polish off the lot. Britain doesn't really have a strong hospitality culture. We are all quite different here in the way we do things.

HotSauceCommittee · 04/06/2018 00:06

No comment to make of my fellow compatriots, people are people and all that, OP, but your post reminds me of the kindness of a Muslim bloke who lived a few doors down to me when I was a student. My two lazy bastard housemates were too pissed to be arsed answering the door to me when I, also pissed, turned up at 1.00am without my keys.
I was fuming and knocking and must have woken half the street up when this lovely fella took me into his, despite the fact he was getting up at 6.00am, let me sleep on his sofa (after he’d offered to have the sofa and had refused taking his bed) , chatted a bit and told me Muslims believed visitors were a gift from God and left me with his key, so I didn’t have to get up when he was going out; he just trusted me. I will always remember that lovely, hospitable young man with gratitude.

Loandbeholdagain · 04/06/2018 00:07

To be honest amongst his group of friends it would be very rare that would happen as most parents are of a similar mind. Perhaps it’s regional.

PhilODox · 04/06/2018 00:08

And do you not think that sending sweets to share every playdate is way too much? The percentage of reception aged children with dental decay in the UK is horrific! I never send sweets because the receiving parent may well be trying to limit their child's sugar intake.

5LeafClover · 04/06/2018 00:08

The girls probably ate the sweets then, as they played that might explain the lack of other snacks. I don't know about the water, as I said before some kids don't drink much and the very best play dates are about playing. Offering to have your daughter back the next day is actually quite generous and welcoming? Sounds like the kids had a great time...but to this family home time means home time please.

Littletinyraindrops · 04/06/2018 00:12

I always offer drinks at regular intervals and nibbles, mainly as it's just the way I was brought up, you don't know what condition people have come to you in (hungry, thirsty etc).

However being over the top with mountains of food is unnecessary.
I don't expect my host to be slaving away in the kitchen prior to my arrival, or disappearing at regular intervals for yet more stuff to eat.

Also any play date I've been on we've discussed the food situation beforehand, mainly so the children aren't over fed and therefore eating too much crap/ruining their dinner. I'm sure if they were thirsty they know how to ask for a drink, they can even get the friend to ask. 2 hours is

You initial post was rude, and tbh bringing the fact that these people you've met that are inhospitable are white, seems a tad racist.
If a similar slur was posted by a white woman about someone of a different race, it'd be hell on, but I'm guessing that's what you wanted.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 00:13

This thread does show that the offers of food and drink aren't often acts of generosity. The op has decided not to continue being "generous" where she gets nothing in return.

scottishdiem · 04/06/2018 00:14

Ah. When I was younger playdate types things were when things sweets and cake and juice were offered. Didnt really get them at home. This clearly is what the problem is now. To much sugar at home so playdays make it worse.

My DPs godkids love paydates with other families from their cultural background or with UK kids at their own home as thats when they get the treat foods. Normally is more Zimbabwean cuisine which is less focussed on sugar (although the amount of meat eaten is remarkable).

Rocinante1 · 04/06/2018 00:14

I feed everyone who comes into my house!
Playmates- I lay out slices fruit, make sandwiches cut into fun shapes, a pitcher of squash or water.
Workmen/builders - bacon or sausage on rolls ready in the morning and cooked lunch ready for lunch time.
Family - kettle is on as soon as they are in the door, biscuits out, sandwiches, if it's near dinner time then I tell them just to stay for dinner etc.
Hot weather - cool box out the front with drinks in for the postman to take something cool to drink.

I can't help it - I think it's so rude not to offer something or to refuse to feed people!

PhilODox · 04/06/2018 00:19

Are you in the UK rocinante?
Builders, yes, but the postman?

Rocinante1 · 04/06/2018 00:24

@PhilODox

I'm in Scotland - so it happens about twice a year!
We're rural though, and I feel bad that he has to trek on out to me so if it's hot out, I will leave drinks.

Rocinante1 · 04/06/2018 00:25

My parents are both white British, but they lived in another very hot country for about 15 years after they left uni; it was a public awareness thing in that country like "if it's hot out, remember your delivery people get dehydrated too". So I think it stuck with them and passed onto me over here!

PhilODox · 04/06/2018 00:26

Ah, I'm in a city- if we all left drinks for the postman, he'd need to use the loo in every street!

Taytotots · 04/06/2018 00:33

I would always offer a drink to any visitor and so would all my friends. Playdate some sort of snack is usually given but definitely not a full spread unless they are staying for tea - kids mostly don't want to stop playing to eat. I think the people you'vd encountered certainly aren't representative.

I know Mrs Doyle is Irish but......

Cultural differences  UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh
Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 00:33

@findingmyfeet12 as opposed to what? What would you do in my situation? Continue with your generosity and expect nothing? For how long? Generosity works both ways. Giving without taking is not sustainable for any relationship, unless the bond is extremely close

OP posts:
Kokeshi123 · 04/06/2018 00:37

I offer tea, water and drinks but am wary of offering snacks as an "automatic" thing as kids can easily get a lot of sugar that way. It endangers their teeth and spoils their appetite for their meals.

Have been in some cultures where there is a tendency to almost compulsively feed people and I do find it troubling. It creates pressure to eat between meals all the time, which isn't healthy.

I think they should have offered a glass of water or something though.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 00:39

I would do the same as you op, but I wouldn't call my own behaviour generosity. Especially when I expected something in return.

howrudeforme · 04/06/2018 00:41

Op your post comes across as racist. I hope you don’t mean it.

You are British, yes?

I’m both Asian and English.

Growing up my friends came to tea and my dm made flipping gourmet food. I went to tea at English background friends houses and had spaghetti hoops from a tin. Difference in food culture.

But I was more than welcomed.

Similarly I think I overcooked for dc friends and did loads. That was my choice and I didn’t expect it to be reciprocated. It was in terms of fun etc, just not with copious amounts of home made food.

Uk culture is famed for its independence and individualism. Expat culture here can be community led. I adapt to each. In my expat culture I have one set of ways of doing things, in my wider life I have another. I adapt.

In some ways in Asian culture there’s a need to be the best host and the most generous (thinking Indian weddings).

You might find white uk as ungenerous and unwelcoming. I just find it normal in the context of this country and the idea of the individual (rather than huge focus on community).

Years ago I and another Mum went to a play date to a middle eastern household. I was hoping for a cup of tea and chat. No, we were treated to a feast (fabulous) and felt we were at a spa. No way could I have reciprocated this in terms of food but i treated her child as my own when he was with me.

My bf pulls open a few packets of crisps. She’s not a fooldie. I love her company.

What’s the problem?

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 00:43

@weehedgehog so why not confirm snacks were fine as long as no sugar. Or confirm a limit to quantities . That way host can accommodate.

She has saved you the trouble of feeding your child and instead it is interpreted negatively as ruining your child's appetite. Her efforts frowned upon. How ungrateful.

I would love my daughter to have been her guest, been very grateful and returned the favour.

OP posts:
PenelopeFlintstone · 04/06/2018 00:44

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment?)

This probably happened because it was a bloke looking after the kids. Unless you meant 'she'?

scottishdiem · 04/06/2018 00:45

Op your post comes across as racist. I hope you don’t mean it.

No it doesnt. Cultural differences are not based on ones race. If it were then a lot of the time we would be having debates about the racisim between northerns and southerns or those from Edinburgh compared to those from Glasgow.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 00:59

@howrudeforme no! Definitely not meaning to be racist. I'm glad you have asked the question (unlike others). I am trying hard to stick to facts and use evidence from my personal experiences .

Of course I know not to make sweeping negative generalisations. I would hate it of me. There are others on this site saying the same about other cultures and their attitudes towards hospitality and food using their own personal experiences, so I am not alone in my thoughts, which have been wrongly perceived as racist .

Other cultures offer food and more of it to show they care about you. If they didn't, it would be an indictment of their hosting and hospitality; disrespectful of their guests.

Sikh punjabi (like other worldwide) culture and generosity is centred around food and offering it (small or medium quantities) is no big inconvenience/bother at all.

When you go to a house where there's blank offering, it is unwelcoming. These houses all belong to the same background of people and I am only putting in words how others have acted.

OP posts:
howrudeforme · 04/06/2018 01:18

Yes, I do know that thanks. But you still do come across as ‘white people are tight’ and you have made sweeping generalisations.

I guess I’m lucky as I come from both cultures so find the variety of hospitality offered (or not offered). all fine and good.