Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
GlitterGlue · 03/06/2018 19:07

It’s quite unkind to judge a grieving family for not offering you food/drink.

SleepingStandingUp · 03/06/2018 19:08

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners
Well good to know that it isn't just being White that puts me at fault, its that being working class means I've been dragged up too

birdsnotbees · 03/06/2018 19:09

There's a cultural element at play: as a rule, Brits don't go all out with the constant food and drink. So, in answer to your question, in general us Brits might not offer the same hospitality that you might expect - but we're not rude. That's our culture, and tbh just as I respect other cultures I'd kind of expect you to extend me the same understanding.

That said, all my friends, family and neighbours would offer something; a cuppa at least. And yes I'd feed and water a child on a play date. So you've probably met a few people who were unlike the majority. But to extrapolate from that that the British are big horrible meanies... hmmm, that's not really ok.

I have learned much from my friends and neighbours (of all backgrounds) about being a better host: I appreciate the food and drinks and I now do much more to make people feel welcome.

My point? We can perhaps all learn from each other. I love my own culture but I can learn a lot from others. You could, too.

PandaPieForTea · 03/06/2018 19:10

I might give a snack on a 2 hour play date, but I am probably more concerned about being judged for giving someone’s kid ‘crap’ to eat than being judged for being inhospitable.

findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 19:12

I'm not British but from a minority ethnic background. I agree with a lot of what you've said op. I base this on a lifetime spent in Britain.

I've found Punjabi Sikhs to have a very welcoming attitude generally.

I also think there's a north south divide.

I grew up in a house where we were never allowed to run out of snacks in case unexpected guests arrived.

RaininSummer · 03/06/2018 19:13

I always offer drinks, even to the chap servicing the boiler, but not food really unless it is a mealtime or I have specifically made cake for a visit. I don't keep snacks in the house at all but anyone hungry can have cheese and crackers. In the playdate years I would have fed endangered a child but I know nowadays we are much more conscious of not stuffing kids with rubbish. The OK does seem to know very rude people though. Since it's relevant, I am a white southerner.

Sagegreen · 03/06/2018 19:13

OP you need to head north. I am from Yorkshire and husband from Lancashire and people drown in water/tea and are practically force fed just for stepping through the door. Everyone I know does this outside London and though I don't live there now, the attitude is the same. FWIW I feel foreign in the SE of England and it is not representative of the UK as a whole. Your daughter would have been given a drink and biscuit etc at my house. So please be careful how you make your sweeping statements though as it does read quite harshly.

RaininSummer · 03/06/2018 19:13

Endangered?? And watered.

Windyone · 03/06/2018 19:14

In my experience it's very unusual to visit someone here and not be offered at least a cup of tea. Maybe they just don't like you.

MollyDaydream · 03/06/2018 19:15

I think it's quite unusual not to be offered a tea/coffee.

I'm guessing play date mum didn't want/expect you to stay though!

I'm guessing the cultural difference with visiting the bereaved family is that generally if you are close enough to visit someone who has suffered a bereavement or had an illness or new baby etc, you would be expected to look after them rather than them 'host' you.

findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 19:16

OP I think you have to allow for the fact that in some cultures there isn't the expectation to be fed or offered drinks.

If no one does it then it's surely accepted and not the norm, therefore not considered rude or inhospitable.

ommmward · 03/06/2018 19:16

I don't feed people snacks when they come for playdates. I do my level best not to have me or my children snack between meals, so it wouldn't be in our culture to be offering snacks.

If people are at my house for a playdate at lunch time, either they bring their own food or I offer them whatever random collection of food I have available.

If I've invited people for a meal then yes, I make a proper effort.

I almost always put the kettle on when people arrive, but quite often they have to end up making their own tea because I get distracted by other stuff. But I'm quite up front about how welcome they are to help themselves.

I'd rather make sure that my guests are being welcomed in our conversation and in the games the children are playing etc etc, than being distracted by offering food that no one needs...

findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 19:19

ommmward I agree with some of what you're saying. In my experience gueststo South Asian homes often barely spend any time with their hosts who are preoccupied with making food and drinks.

It's horses for courses.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 03/06/2018 19:19

I wouldn't automatically offer food or drink to a parent who was just dropping off. I'd assume you'd not want to be hanging around.
I don't always have biscuits and cakes in to offer people. It depends on what part of the week and how much my children have been eating. If I'm expecting guests I'll generally make sure there's something in, but if someone just turns up on spec then they'll have to make do.
Btw, you do come across as racist. You've listed two examples and you've decided that all southern white British people are stingy hosts based on this.

Bombardier25966 · 03/06/2018 19:20

To give and take back

Give because it's a kind thing to do, but the expectation of something in return makes your initial offering cheap.

hoosie · 03/06/2018 19:22

Hi OP,

I'm a white woman of British Nationality who was educated internationally. I have lived in the UK, Singapore, Sri Lanka, Switzerland and Germany. I'm a 3rd culture adult. My family cultural background is Irish Catholic. You are having a culture clash but you have also been unlucky to meet some very rude thoughtless people. In the UK it is the norm to offer guests a drink and a snack. Snacks usually take the form of cakes and biscuits.

It is not the norm to be offered a huge buffet or a meal unless you are expressly invited for lunch or supper. It is also not the norm for your child not to be fed and given drinks on a playdate. That is pretty disgusting IMHO

SE Asian cultures feed you to death on arrival. I know my one (British) Sikh friend makes ridiculous and elaborate provisions for me even if I am only dropping in for 30mins. It makes me feel awkward because then I feel I have to reciprocate and I feel I simply don't have the time to make food from scratch every time she pops in when I have a full time job and 4 kids. I've begged her to stop but she's continuing regardless. I am now in a flat panic everytime I know she's dropping round. It's awkward and becoming unpleasant. My other European friends get plied with wine or tea and then everyone is happy.

I think you are, as you say, "actively seeking out examples to reinforce [my] negative stereotype of white British English people". I think you also need to mix with more Brits if you are stereotyping this badly You say that you were born and bred in the UK but yet I think you need to stop comparing and contrasting cultures. I could whinge about every cultural group I've mixed with but that's just lazy thinking IMHO.

You had a few bad experiences. It's not personal and it's not meant as an insult to you. That said the thing with the hungry/thirsty child is shocking. However, I do feel you need to chill a bit and accept this is a cultural difference.

findingmyfeet12 · 03/06/2018 19:23

I think it's fair to say that South Asians are overall more generous hosts than Brits.

However, It is expected to be reciprocated which cancels out the generosity.

phlewf · 03/06/2018 19:23

In defence of those from Edinburgh, I get twitchy if someone turns up uninvited and all I can offer is soup and sandwiches. A planned visit involves a treat, an offer of a main meal and cracking out the tea pot.
That’s what I learned from my parents working class upbringing, we were middle class though and I’d say VERY GENERALLY that’s where I’ve found offers less forthcoming.
I know lots of people in a generosity battle. Neighbors bring cake when you move in, you give a bottle of wine, they bring flowers from their garden and a casserole, you bake a cake iced with all their names, and so on.

eddielizzard · 03/06/2018 19:25

i'm british from the south east and i don't recognise your description of british behaviour in your post. i don't know anyone who wouldn't at least offer a drink.

i think if you expect a certain behaviour people pick up on it. maybe your resting face is 'urgh you inhospitable brits, we do it so much better' and so they don't feel they want to make you welcome.

change your attitude and see if your experience changes too.

oliviapopeswineglass · 03/06/2018 19:25

I'm white born and bred Londoner, lots of food and drink offerings to anyone that appears at our house are standard. The window cleaner never gets away without tea and biscuits.
I'm sorry you have had this experience.
I have noticed it myself but put it down to just that particular person / family.
My daughter has had the same experience at friends houses where nothing is offered. It's so rude and unwelcoming.

Bluetowelly · 03/06/2018 19:27

Interesting topic.

I do think “do you want a cup of tea” is a fairly basic social thing.

I have actually been to people’s houses (at their invite) where they’ve just got on with their routine without offering anything Confused

Of course it is “horses for courses” etc. But I didn’t find it hugely comfortable.

Similarly, I think a guest accepting a drink/biscuit if it’s offered is generally good form.

I think of people I haven’t enjoyed socialising with (who turned out to be unpleasant people in the long term) and they “showed me who they were” from the start by not offering anything OR coming round to mine (when I’d made food after they’d complained about the cost of eating out, etc).

Manners maketh the man. I think they were “users” deep down and the concept of making another person feel comfortable was alien to them.

FormerlyPickingOakum · 03/06/2018 19:27

My DGM was working class, Northern and English and you couldn't leave her house without sloshing. But she was very careful with whom she offered biscuits or cake.

I think it goes back to rationing, tbh, and the careful attitudes were passed down. You just couldn't afford for people to come over and munch through your entire sugar ration for the week.

Jammycustard · 03/06/2018 19:28

This is a nonsense surely?

Bluetowelly · 03/06/2018 19:30

(I meant to say - came round to mine AFTER a joint agreeement to have lunch in, and then said they’d already eaten Confused or didn’t like what I’d made)

As time goes on, I’ve decided just not going to socialise with people like that.

blackeyes72 · 03/06/2018 19:31

I am not British and from one of the cultures you mention but guess what... I work full time, I have lots of children and if and when we have playdates I don't have time for hone made trays but will feed them dinner if staying beyond five

I don't have time to do tons of home made food and we don't have biscuits or junk in the house, plus most of my children friends have different dietary requirements so hard to have food just in case

Think halal, gluten free, vegan, dairy free, nut free, etc

My dd1 has a Sikh friend and her parents are the rudest, snobbish, unfriendly, calculating people I know, so I would not make this cultural... 😁

Swipe left for the next trending thread