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Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
AsAProfessionalFekko · 04/06/2018 20:24

I was paraphrasing not quoting (note lack of speech marks). So you said (and I paraphrase) ‘no thanks I won’t come - you can’t afford it (poor chap)’.

Oh that’s much better then.

I’m gonna call.....

MarklahMarklah · 04/06/2018 20:29

I'm sorry you've met/encountered some rude people, OP.
I'm in the South East and my DD (7) often has playdates. As soon as the children get back to mine, I'll offer them food and drink (snacks usually, unless they're specifically staying to a meal). It wouldn't occur to me not to. Similarly, when the parent(s) come to collect the child, then I offer them a drink too.

I recently attended an evening class where one of our attendees is a Muslim, who was observing Ramadan. I asked the course organisers if I could take along a small snack, which could be put out for the person to have later in the evening as I was aware that otherwise they'd have a long journey home (for the other course attendees, there was a choice of hot drinks & biscuits but these were served before it was time for Iftar).

It just would not occur to me to not be polite to guests/visitors to my house, or to make sure that someone attending an event was not catered for in some way, shape or form.

Cheekyandfreaky · 04/06/2018 20:40

I commented earlier on how offensive the OP has been and I really don’t think OP has improved in that respect.

Again I am of the same background as you and I repeat again that there are many aspects of Sikh/ Punjabi culture that are embarrassing. I think the hospitality thing is actually symptomatic of a wider issue of doing everything to excess. Yes this can mean hospitality is over and above expectations but it can stretch to alcoholism too which has recently been reported in the news as a major cause for concern in the Sikh community. I think it can also be seen in Sikh weddings where sickening levels of expense are spent in a world where poverty is everywhere.

OP stop picking at posters insults and answer their questions.

Cheekyandfreaky · 04/06/2018 20:43

Just to add I also think the hospitality thing in Punjabi sikhs for the most part is just to show off, also see above re: weddings. I honestly think it’s not about making others feel welcome or happy, it’s just about feeling like the amazingly generous host.

Hoppinggreen · 04/06/2018 20:44

I had a good Seikh friend who educated me on the concept of the “Punjabi Princess”
Sounds applicable here

Hoppinggreen · 04/06/2018 20:45

Sikh I mean

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 20:53

@MarklahMarklah so kind, so considerate of you to think of others before yourself

OP posts:
Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 20:55

@Cheekyandfreaky please identify an unanswered question

OP posts:
Cheekyandfreaky · 04/06/2018 20:56

Also on the flip side of showing off, I have observed lots of gossipy behaviour in the Punjabi Sikh community whereby if someone hasn’t done something excessive like a huge wedding/ 90 million new outfits for random events/ the right type of whisky on tables, then you can be sure it’ll be discussed in the community.

Cheekyandfreaky · 04/06/2018 20:59

@offside ‘s comment 18.12- you addresses none of the points raised for a start. The rest, well you can look through and see for yourself.

Cheekyandfreaky · 04/06/2018 21:00

addressed

Scabetty · 04/06/2018 21:03

I work with a majority of Hindus and Sikhs. There is a lot of showing off which they freely admit. I am of Irish heritage and find other cultural practices very interesting. My best friend in work has admitted she would never want for children to marry a white person. I pointed out how I could never admit to that as I would be racist.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 21:04

*AsAProfessionalFekko Mon 04-Jun-18 20:24:47
I was paraphrasing not quoting (note lack of speech marks). So you said (and I paraphrase) ‘no thanks I won’t come - you can’t afford it (poor chap)’.

Oh that’s much better then.

I’m gonna call.....*

Misquoted and misinterpreted to make your skewed point. The Sun journalist, perhaps?

There was nothing wrong with accepting to go to a church service and saying I would hate to be a financial burden on you. The same way as if you knew a struggling individual/family who might have overstretched them self in inviting you to something costly they normally don't do. He never goes to the pub, doesn't drink and funerals are expensive. It was magnanimous of him to make that gesture and it was considerate of me to thank him and think of his circumstances.

OP posts:
findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 21:05

Cheekyandfreaky I am from a similar background and I know that this level of hosting often means that women from poor families in India don't marry because they simply can't afford to host such an event.

It's a tradition that needs to be reigned in a little.

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 21:07

Op everyone has told you that it was massively inappropriate to say you didn't want to be a burden on the elderly man.

You go ahead and stick to your guns though.

Jesuisleloup · 04/06/2018 21:14

Surely food and hospitality isn’t the be all and end all of relationships. Even if your child didn’t get offered a drink at the friends house, I don’t think you should stop your child going back to their friends house. If you do, you are limiting their chances to see and learn about different cultures. That is one of the benefits of having friends. Your child won’t be able to do that from your house .

Please don’t let your prejudices limit your child’s possibility to broaden their horizons.

Sagegreen · 04/06/2018 21:21

I commented at the start of this thread in a light hearted north vs south manner. However, now OP it is clearer to me why you are repeatedly not offered any refreshments in people's homes.
British people are not direct on the whole. But they are amazingly good at passive aggression and I fear you have fallen foul of the "don't offer them anything...I don't want them stopping" and frankly I'm amazed you can't see why.

Jesuisleloup · 04/06/2018 21:24

@sagegreen I like the cut of your jib

offside · 04/06/2018 21:27

sagegreen nail.on.head

TheresSomebodyAtTheDoor · 04/06/2018 21:28

I once had a nightmare of a guest show up uninvited, who proceeded to eat all the supper. He drank all the milk in the milk jug, all the beer in the fridge and even all the water in the tap.

After that, I haven't felt like offering anything out to guests. I'm white British from the South. Maybe other white, southern Brits have had the same guest??

AsAProfessionalFekko · 04/06/2018 22:06

saying I would hate to be a financial burden on you. there a direct quote - not that my posts misinterpreted what you st you said.

I’ll say it very plainly - that smacks of lady bountiful looking down on the poor little people.

ghostpepper · 04/06/2018 22:07

I am from a hindu background and I think Indians (and frankly Iranians and Arabs are others in this group) are over the top with this. I am far from not food obsessed, but this generosity cuts into huge chunks of your day if you have to cook a meal every time someone knocks on the door.

Someone on the previous page noted correctly, in my estimation, that all these things are cultural. White brits are generous in other ways (drinks at a pub?). We can go through a list of (positive) cultural stereotypes here, but if you get to know people you can cut through these cultural norms and find out who is really your friend and who is giving you food because it is a cultural norm.

I am from a similar background and I know that this level of hosting often means that women from poor families in India don't marry because they simply can't afford to host such an event.

Also, all this cooking takes time, and it's probably women doing it.

I'll have to admit though, Sikhs are amazing. I know Sikhs who travel to all corners of the earth and stay for free at some other Sikh's place and they only met once travelling, and they reciprocate (random Sikhs are always staying at their place). The original couchsurfing. Maybe it's being part of a minority group globally (they aren't a majority anywhere except a tiny corner of India).

My best friend in work has admitted she would never want for children to marry a white person. I pointed out how I could never admit to that as I would be racist.

Yeah, you get this in the hindu community too. I wouldn't take wanting to control your children's marital adult life as any kind of virtue. It's awful especially when you realize that finding a good partner for your child doesn't go much beyond finding a "good family", with no regard for whether such a person is actually good person or a proper match for your child.

littleducks · 04/06/2018 22:07

There was nothing wrong with accepting to go to a church service and saying I would hate to be a financial burden on you

What a mean spirited and nasty thing to do.

SadGuru · 04/06/2018 22:11

OP I find some of your comments baffling.
I am from India but now British as I’ve lived here for 17 years. I notice the differences in the two cultures but there are positive and negative aspects to both the cultures. Isn’t it the same all over the world?
I live here now, my children were born here and this is now my home. I’ve learnt and adapted so I don’t offend anyone unintentionally here.
I find it very difficult to hear people from any culture talking of the ‘superior’ practices from their cultures. I will give one example. People from Indian culture take pride in looking after their parents in old age and how they are not abandoned to live alone or in a nursing home. But I have also seen lot of elderly people being badly mistreated by their families but they have no choice other than put up with it. There is no state support for the vulnerable people, be it the elderly, children, disabled, etc. I have seen how poor people struggle to get the basic health care.
You take great pride in being generous. Are you generous because that is the way you are or is to show people you are generous? Because I don’t understand your comment that you would not offer anything to people who don’t offer you something. So do you pick and choose on whom you shower the generosity from your culture?
I would say just stop comparing yourself to others and stop judging people. Just accept them as they are. Some offer a lot of food, some don’t. It is not a big deal as long as the kids get on well and they are having a good time. Be careful or you will pass on these attitudes to your kids and they will start judging their friends too!

ghostpepper · 04/06/2018 22:22

Just accept them as they are. Some offer a lot of food, some don’t. It is not a big deal as long as the kids get on well and they are having a good time.

I think kids (and adults) get food shoved in their face excessively. It's ok to go two hours without food.