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Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
japanesegarden · 04/06/2018 17:17

I'm white, middle class, south east. I would always offer a drink to anyone coming by arrangement to visit, or any workman likely to stay more than ten minutes. As a PP said, if someone drops by I'd offer a drink if I was happy for them to come in and chat, and if I didn't want that to happen then I wouldn't. I'd regard that as normal social coding in my culture. I would take a small gift like flowers if invited to a friend for coffee, unless it was someone I see all the time, and a bigger one if invited for dinner. My play date days are behind me, but I would always have offered a visiting child a drink and a biscuit, and generally have given them a meal. If I knew their mother she'd probably have a cup of tea when she collected them, but not on drop off. If someone I knew was bereaved I would certainly send a card, but probably not visit at all unless I knew them very well, in which case I would not expect any refreshments , and might offer to make them tea.

I wouldn't generally offer adults more food than a biscuit, unless they had been asked for a meal, or unless I knew them so well that we made a spontaneous decision to eat together. This is my culture. The vast majority of people I know do the same. As others have said, that's the social norms we grew up in. It doesn't say whether we are nice or nasty people, generous or otherwise, that's just how the convention works in my particular background. Other cultures will vary, but behaving in the way typical for your culture doesn't make you anything except conventional, surely? In the OP, I am very surprised the child wasn't given water. That isn't what I'd expect. The other examples - I guess it depends on the context. Certainly I would never tell someone to go away if I didn't want to see them. That would be incredibly rude. They'd just be expected to work it out from not having been offered a cup of tea ...

sashh · 04/06/2018 17:24

I was born in Yorkshire, white British, and although you’d always offer a guest a hot or cold drink, I’ve never experienced anyone offering or being offered fruit cake (let alone with cheese on, does that work!?).

How have you never had fruit cake, preferably with Wensleydale cheese? What part of Yorkshire are you in? Are you going to tell mne that you have never had Yorkshire pudding a) served with gravy before a meal and b) served cold with golden syrup?

www.thecourtyarddairy.co.uk/blog/fruitcake-paired-cheese-origins-history/

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/christmas-cake-with-cheese-it-could-only-be-yorkshire-1-7005991

www.daleslife.com/winter-recipes/individual-yorkshire-puddings-with-golden-syrup/

OhDearMuriel · 04/06/2018 17:26

Op - you really can't tar all southerners with the same brush.
There are ill-mannered people in every race and walk of life.
Did you reciprocate with a play-date?
I thought it was Very nice that they offered another play-date.

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam · 04/06/2018 17:26

Haha thanks for the links sashh!

I’ve had fruit cake, just not with cheese, and never offered to a guest as if it’s custom!

Never had Yorkshire puddings cold or as an appetiser but have had them as part of a meal.

I was born and grew in in Hull :)

formerbabe · 04/06/2018 17:31

I thought it was Very nice that they offered another play-date

Really?! I wouldn't want to send my DC to another playdate if they weren't even offered a drink.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 17:33

*formerbabe

I wouldn't t offer food on a 2 hour playdate. If she said she was thirsty I hope I would pick up on it and offer a drink

How rude. Why wouldn't you just automatically offer a drink rather than play some weird guessing game as to whether the visiting child is thirsty?! confused*

Precisely my point. And I will now be accused of actively seeking out examples which reinforce my mindset.

for the previous poster who called me ingrate. First, thanks (!). Second I haven't made this personal about you so please reciprocate. I argue ideas/concepts /culture, not argue personally with you.

To the poster who said I need to integrate more: I knew roughly more or less how deaths are considered in UK having been brought up here. how different it was from my original culture .

FYI I was so mindful of causing cultural offence, I still researched further before my visit and asked others about protocol and etiquette. I also Googled all I could. There are accusations and assumptions being made which I am keen to dispel. Please avoid making this personal. Our entire visit was based on her boyfriend passing away.

OP posts:
PrimalLass · 04/06/2018 17:38

OP I don't recognise what you say at all. Everyone I know offers coffee, meals etc.

However, I find your tales of overflowing tables of treats etc quite stressful. Why the excess and waste? It sounds like showing off rather than generosity.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 17:41

@formerbabe. Precisely. I'm not alone! In fact DH and I have confirmed we will still have playdates but we hope to be the host from now on. Their little girl and our girl play nice together and we can offer food and drink knowing at least it daughter is looked after. There are other elements of the playdate (non-culture related) that I think I can do a better job, so it's our place from now on. The little girl is lovely.

OP posts:
littleducks · 04/06/2018 17:47

Funny how you are insisting on forcing your 'superior' ways on the little girl by saying you will offer food and drinks even after lots of people have said that this might not be appreciated.

I can't believe you still think you should have been offered something by grieving family, makes it sound like you were there for image not to actually support them.

blacklister · 04/06/2018 17:53

Sorry to derail, but is this cold Yorkshire puddings with syrup a northern (or more north than the Cotswolds) thing? I'd never heard of it. Yorkshires need a puddle of hot gravy in them!

DH is from the same area as me but his Grandparents are from Burton - he always asks me to do extras with a roast so that he can have them cold later with syrup on because his Gran used to do them for him!

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 18:02

@OhDearMuriel we insisted the first couple playdates were at ours. Mother stayed for first few minutes to watch, which is understandable. I asked her if the snacks/drinks were fine. I also asked her if she would like to stay for a coffee as it would be nice to get to know her. She declined and I accepted. She is within her right to decline an invitation.

First playdate was 4 hours. The second was half day. I loved that my daughter loved playing with her. They snacked and played on and off. Had a lovely time!

OP posts:
offside · 04/06/2018 18:12

I feel like you’re ignoring all of the posts (and it’s mainly all of them) that are telling you that this isn’t the norm and you’re continuing with your generalisations.

You’re also ignoring all the posts telling you that they don’t like it/are put out if their child is offered food/snacks that they don’t want them to have - they wouldn’t know what they were being offered if they are not at the play date with their child. It’s ok saying you asked them if there’s anything their parents don’t want them to have but it maybe that those parents only think dietary requirements and would assume as a mother yourself that you wouldn’t offer sugary snacks or drinks, or feed them just before tea time...as this thread has demonstrated, different people have different rules for their children and what works for you (lots of snacks and drinks) doew not work for others. If you can’t respect that and continue to demonstrate your superiority then you are ignorant.

You have also failed to acknowledge anyone who has given examples of negative experiences from the Sikh culture or any other South Asian culture for that matter but we do not make generalised statements about those cultures.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 18:18

@offside "you are ignorant" thanks for the personal name calling(!) As before, please refrain from personally attacking me and stick to arguing ideas.

OP posts:
famousfour · 04/06/2018 18:24

Food and hospitality are strongly linked in some cultures and less so in others.

Some people are just a bit rude regardless. I would find sitting on the sun lounger and ignoring you ruder than not offering food and snacks.

It is generally a good idea to offer children refreshments but perhaps she got caught up and it slipped her mind.

Not too hard to understand I think.

Sailinghappy · 04/06/2018 18:28

Perhaps try not to go around judging everyone's behaviour and feeling superior to them all the time. You are now actively seeking out negative examples to slate one particular ethnicity/ culture... which in itself could definitely be viewed as much more unpleasant than anything theses other people may have done! Accept that people are different to you and be more gracious about what is or isn't offered to you.

offside · 04/06/2018 18:28

Oh dear. Laughable.

And again you have failed to acknowledge any other viewpoint but you’re own. That is ignorant.

I’m afraid you can’t dictate or control what people post on a public forum so please refrain from handing out orders.

Typeractive · 04/06/2018 18:31

Those who are saying the OP is being racist are talking nonsense. She's talking about white British culture, and hasn't commented at all on our racial characteristics.

FWIW, I'm largely in agreement with her. British hospitality is pretty shabby in comparison to South Asian, Arab, etc. Standard fare is a cup of tea and biscuit, although the big-hearted and generous (i.e. working class) lay on more.

I don't bother with full meals on playdates, unless they're sleepovers. I make sure the kids will be picked up before tea time and then do a selection of sandwiches and some fruit as an after school snack.

I have Muslim and Hindu school gate chums. Whenever they come over, they bring beautiful homemade cakes and I feel very inadequate. Blush

offside · 04/06/2018 18:32

And if you re-read my post I didn’t actually call you ignorant, I said if you dont respect others viewpoints and continue to demonstrate your superiority then you are ignorant - you have now labelled yourself ignorant. I applaud you OP.

formerbabe · 04/06/2018 18:36

I don't even really see it as a hospitality issue. If a child has come round for a playdate then whilst their parent is not there, you are responsible. Offering a cup of water is the bare minimum level of care. Who doesn't do that fgs?!

Pebbles16 · 04/06/2018 18:40

The thread seems to have turned into a bun fight. (Cakes and peace people).
However, I am white British and from the south and am known by the phrase "never knowingly under-catered".
I learnt my manners from my mum and grandma (also white, British and southern).

sugarnotsweetener · 04/06/2018 18:40

@offside OP has to pick out one thing so she can look as tho she’s responding —instead of ignoring like every other post— so rather than address your very valid points she’s jumped straight on the word ignorant, which I agree wasn’t a personal attack but just pointing out that those attitudes are ignorant.

petrolpump28 · 04/06/2018 18:44

Sikhs have a bit of a superiority thing dont they? 2 percent of the population of India and 26 percent of the national income.
I gleaned this from a Sikh friend btw.

Several issues at play here....to fail to offer a drink to a small child is rude/neglectful.
To lie on a sun lounger and not acknowledge an adult is rude.
Food and hospitality are very important in Arab culture.
Sometimes being obliged to eat food can be unpleasant.

petrolpump28 · 04/06/2018 18:46

OP I have often found those with the least are the kindest.

OhDearMuriel · 04/06/2018 19:09

I do sympathise and I know where you are coming from and btw, I am originally a southerner.

Try not to get upset - i.e. learn from it.

Sadly, I have learnt to treat like with like on occasion, because this can be quite common - wherever you are in the UK.
A lot of this simply boils down to good manners from a good upbringing and not being ignorant!

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:10

@petrolpump28
OP I have often found those with the least are the kindest.

This is ever so true. Which is why I look at the host and think are they actually in a position to give?

I knew an old man whose wife sadly passed away. He lived in a council flat and received a meager pension. He invited our family to the funeral which deeply humbled me. I confirmed we would go to the church service as a mark of respect for his beloved wife but we declined to go to the after reception afterwards explicitly stating I didn't want to be a financial burden on an elderly man. He was so emotional.

OP posts: