Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Cultural differences UK Playdates Recipricol behaviour Generosity Sikh

374 replies

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 03/06/2018 18:00

Please can you either validate by sharing examples of your own, or disprove my conclusions, about the ungenerous, unwelcome cultural attitudes of British, white people.

My background is Punjabi Sikh and I was born and brought up in the UK. I grew up watching my parents receiving and themselves being visitors.

My take on Sikh people is they were from traditional, humble backgrounds with jolly, warm, generous backgrounds. Sikhs in particular are known for their overly generous nature with a visit never missing offers of quantities of food.

(As a child, I remember guests would be offered anything we had in the cupboards. They only had to mention the word and it was on the table in front of them. The guest was king. The gesture was equally reciprocated when visiting a similar background. The unspoken understanding was we didn’t have much, but we shared what little we had. And offering food showed you cared- I digress).

Trips back to the motherland extended that concept to a greater extent with the people sometimes having the least, offering the most. It made me feel warm, welcome and humble.

In my experience of the UK, it is polar opposite. Whenever I have visited people from British background in their home, I have always been offered nothing.

My daughter once went on a playdate for 2 hours and upon collection, before her host, whined she was hungry and thirsty. The guest didn’t respond by offering a glass of water. Instead he invited us for more playdates the next day (presumably for the same treatment? Angry)
She later confirmed she had not been offered anything, not even a glass of water. The hosts were well within their means to offer a modest snack, let alone glass of water.

When I stayed for the first few minutes of the playdate, the host remained laying down on the sun lounger, drinking her own cup of tea Brew! This I could never do for fear of appearing rude.

As a mum, my natural nurturing instinct makes me offer a little girl who visited our house something to eat and drink. We had hosted 2 playdates previously and the mother saw for herself the generous amount of treats laid out, so it is sad this wasn’t reciprocated. I was not expecting equal but at least a (free) glass of water.

I visited someone from British background to pay condolences to someone who had died and I offered food, flowers Flowers and card. I stayed for an hour and not offered even a glass of water by relatives.

I have paid my British neighbours a visit and nothing, not even water. I paid three of my Gujrati neighbours a visit and offered home made food. My Turkish friends offered cake and home made food. At my party, the Arabs arrived flowing with food. I am so grateful and humbled that I reciprocate in good will feelings back to them.

Perhaps I am guilty of actively seeking out examples to reinforce my negative stereotype of white British English people. It is a small sample set but enough for me to make some generalisations.

Perhaps my comparison is unkind as the people who offer nothing have come from working class backgrounds and class plays a part in cultural manners.

I am moved to write this because the irony is that in the world where people are relatively wealthy compared to their third world counterparts, they display what I believe to be ungenerous, unwelcome (mean-spirited) behaviour.

We live in the south east of England - a region of disproportionate wealth in the UK. They have relatively much more in terms of disposable income yet cannot offer even a glass of water.

I know this is a controversial post and I expect it will upset the majority white British people who read this, interpreting racist connotations. It’s not- I’m only writing what I have experienced in real life.

(In gurdwaras, we serve langar which is blessed food for those who seek blessings from god- the giving and taking of food being so central to our lives- I digress).

OP posts:
MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 19:14

This is ever so true. Which is why I look at the host and think are they actually in a position to give?

I knew an old man whose wife sadly passed away. He lived in a council flat and received a meager pension. He invited our family to the funeral which deeply humbled me. I confirmed we would go to the church service as a mark of respect for his beloved wife but we declined to go to the after reception afterwards explicitly stating I didn't want to be a financial burden on an elderly man. He was so emotional.

And this is why cultural norms are subjective. I think that deciding for yourself whether people can afford to give you things and therefore 'owe' you them is demanding and judgemental, and I think it's mortifying to tell someone you won't go to their wife's wake because you don't want them to pay for it - what did you expect, a thank you? Most people I know - and particularly the poorest of them - would be quite offended by that. You seem to think that you have 'the right' answer to what to do socially, but there's no such things, just lots of different, competing norms.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:20

@MargaretCavendish If I have been invited, am I not within my rights to accept or decline? Especially on moral grounds? Or is everything I say and do going to be a contentious issue?

OP posts:
MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 19:22

Declining someone's invitation is fine, declining someone's invitation by implying (or, really, outright stating) that they can't afford to host you is rude in the UK. Maybe it wouldn't be everywhere. Which is exactly my point - there isn't some fixed standard that you live up to and we all fail at. I would fail your standards for not offering food to unexpected guests; you fail mine in the way you declined this invitation. We are both right and both wrong at the same time.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:30

@MargaretCavendish For every extra person at the bar, that IS an additional expense for the old man to bear. The religious ceremony will be blanket fee regardless of how many turn up. It IS a financial burden for him and my concerns are not being a burden on him but still being beside him at a difficult time.

I feel there are some here who will challenge absolutely everything I say, no matter what I say.Hmm

OP posts:
findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 19:34

Rightgirl your posts are becoming more and more ridiculous.

That comment about the elderly man is frankly baffling. Who on earth are you to decide what he can and can't afford?

Have you considered seeing a professional for a suspected messiah complex?

AsAProfessionalFekko · 04/06/2018 19:38

Noooooo you didn’t say that you wouldn’t come to the after funeral reception because of finances?

That’s really offensive - people will beg borrow or steal to do a funeral ‘properly’ and give someone a good send off. To imply that he couldn’t afford to host is saying that he couldn’t afford to do the funeral ‘right’ - my mother would have been mortified if someone said that to her when dad died.

And not nit picking for the sake of it - I can’t imagine many cultures or countries where this would be met with antythinng other than shock.

MargaretCavendish · 04/06/2018 19:38

Again, it's not the not going that was the problem, it was telling him that you weren't going so that you weren't a financial problem. In my culture that's rude - it comes across as both smug ('look how thoughtful I am!') and patronising. Older people, in particular, are often very sensitive to being considered 'charity cases'.

offside · 04/06/2018 19:39

It isn’t up to you to decide what people can or cannot afford though, OP. How dare you judge someone’s financial situation based on their appearance.

How do you know what his pension was? How do you know that he didn’t have thousands in savings? Just because he lived in a council flat and was elderly doesn’t mean that he could not afford to host you. How very judgemental.

I recently met a premier league footballer in an eatery. Myself and my husband were the only people who looked twice at him out of hundreds of people because he did not stand out, he did not look like a millionaire, he was dressed rather scrufferly and looked like a poor student, however, we know otherwise. And the only reason we noticed him was because he stopped right next to our table for a few minutes and we naturally looked up to see who it was.

Don’t judge a book by its cover.

sugarnotsweetener and she continues to do so!

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 19:40

I absolutely support you in pointing out that cultural differences exist but the more you post the more sanctimonious and judgemental you sound.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:41

@findingmyfeet12 "baffling" "ridiculous" could it be you now that is actively seeking to reinforce negative stereotype?

You haven't explained why it's baffling or ridiculous. The old man was fine with it. Why can't you? Or is every comment going to attract criticism, no matter what the content?

OP posts:
Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:44

Noooooo you didn’t say that you wouldn’t come to the after funeral reception because of finances?

No, I said I didn't want to be a financial burden on him. Quote me correctly

OP posts:
PrincessCuntsuelaVaginaHammock · 04/06/2018 19:45

Alternatively, he was insulted and embarrassed on the day of his wife's funeral but didn't want to show it. I rather hope this isn't real, OP, because the thought of someone shaming a bereaved widower like that is actually quite upsetting.

Costacoffeeplease · 04/06/2018 19:46

This is obviously just goading now, and ridiculous

findingmyfeet12 · 04/06/2018 19:47

Your behaviour regarding the elderly man was shockingly rude and inappropriate. I'm cringing for you.

You can't see that so I can understand why you find other cultures so confusing and are confusing "different" with "mean" and come across as so arrogance.

You just don't have a clue so it's cruel to try to challenge you. Just do your best op and hopefully the people you meet in life will be kinder than you and give you a break every time you put your foot in it.

fascinated · 04/06/2018 19:48

I think this is a made up thread trying to discredit Sikhs

It cannot be real

blackeyes72 · 04/06/2018 19:49

I have been on both sides... Very poor upbringing, quite wealthy now.

I actually don't think you can judge people's generosity on the basis of how much food they give you during a visit.. Seriously???

How about giving to.charities, giving to family, giving your time to worthy causes, etc?

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:50

How dare you judge someone’s financial situation based on their appearance.

And how dare you say how dare you? Please moderate language when discussing, sharing your ideas.

OP posts:
TabbyTigger · 04/06/2018 19:51

No, I said I didn't want to be a financial burden on him.

OP, you have to acknowledge that in British culture that would be considered rude, just as you consider certain things about what you perceive to be British culture rude. It’s rude because people here are very closed about their financial state, and don’t like to be seen as charity cases/seen to be struggling. It’s lucky for you that this old man supposedly didn’t mind, but just be mindful in future and come up with an excuse rather than being brutally honest! Not everyone will take it well. My family was very northern working class and would have been deeply offended had you worded your refusal like that. Saying “oh we have to get back now” would have been just fine.

Rightgirlwrongplanet1 · 04/06/2018 19:52

@blackeyes72 I agree

OP posts:
French2019 · 04/06/2018 19:52

I know loads of Sikhs. Most of them are lovely and not at all superior/judgemental.

The OP sadly seems to have a very narrow-minded view of the world, and a very limited understanding of why people might not all behave in the same way. I really hope that people won't assume that all Sikhs are like her!

sugarnotsweetener · 04/06/2018 19:58

@fascinated yes at first I thought it was real but the last few posts from OP show you’re right it must be a troll🙄

offside · 04/06/2018 20:01

This has to be a wind up. Has to be!

How dare you dictate AGAIN, what I can and cannot say.

You again are skirting around my ‘idea’ - it’s actually an opinion, not an idea - and you’re failing to respond to the content of the messages - obviously it’s because you haven’t got a leg to stand on.

Boxerbinky · 04/06/2018 20:11

I would actually second what someone touched on, maybe that’s more of a southern mentality than a White British mentality (also quite racist) as us northerners are well known for our welcoming hospitable generous attitude.

I would also take exception to your class description, I often find working class are a lot more generous. My mum is 1 of 16 and from a very poor very working class background and I too grew up on a council estate and I can say, and I’m sure most would agree, that many of those areas are usually communities of one big happy family, everyone helping everyone and open houses.

I find your post quite judgemental, racist and snobbish.

THIS^^ I read and thought exactly the same!

PrincessCuntsuelaVaginaHammock · 04/06/2018 20:19

OP was the funeral held under a bridge? Or on Fleet Street?

DrinkFeckArseGirls · 04/06/2018 20:20

Sending your child over with sweets is not generous, OP. Quite cheap actually (50p?) and I bet they get landed in the bin. People might like to treat their own kids occasionally to something sweet but the constant push for sugar from every angle (playdates, activities, even saw a bowl of sweets in the bank the other day) is relentless.