When will he propose?

[Frenchintheuk]

Hi everyone!

I am French, I live in the uk for a few years and am in a relationship with my partner for 4 years now. We have a beautiful baby girl since last summer.

I never really thought about getting married by the past but everything changed when I had my daughter, I started to feel the urge to do things properly.

My boyfriend has been married before, quoting his words, his ex was “crazy and controlling”, he decided to leave her, went back to his parents and they stayed separated for 2 years before getting a divorce.
Long before we had our child he asked me what were my thoughts about marriage and I told him it wasn’t necessary for me, he simply said ok and we never talked about it again. Everything was fine until I gave birth to our daughter and realised I actually wanted to get married. I naively started to talk about friends getting married, posted wedding stuff on my Pinterest, etc. thinking he would notice it... So when my birthday arrived in September I thought he would propose (also, we were going to his friends’ wedding that day!) but he didn’t and instead he asked me if I wanted a printer for my birthday?!!! (to help with my work) Imagine my face... He noticed something was wrong but I wasn’t ready to talk about it and kept a fake smile on my face all day long at his friends’ wedding and the next few days, looking happy and excited with my new printer.

A few weeks later during an argument he told me he suspected I resented him, I exploded and yelled “I wanted you to propose and you offered me a printer!” he answered absolutely nothing, he looked confused but said no word and we didn’t talk after that. Days, weeks, months passed, February arrived and I thought that it could happened for Valentine’s Day. We left the baby at my parents and went out for a couple of drinks and a nice dinner together, it was romantic but again, nothing happened. After dinner and another drink he said “let’s go home”, I was disappointed but showed nothing. A few days later he noticed I was quite depressed and we talked about it, I told him that he never said anything when I talked about getting married and I felt like he didn’t care about my feelings, he answered that he wanted it, that it was the right thing to do, that he actually thought about doing it for Valentine’s Day but it was tense between us so he didn’t (he also used the same excuse for not doing it at my birthday as I was dealing with postpartum hormones withdrawal and was “too emotional” to quote him). Whatever. I felt like he was searching for excuses, always putting me responsible, not very fair. I told him it was hard for me as I was waiting since last September and he understood.

A few weeks later, our anniversary (4 years together) was approaching I joked saying that it could be a fantastic occasion if IT could happen, wink wink! He smiled and I thought OMG it’s going to happen! It’s sure, it’s the perfect occasion and he knows I’m waiting for soooo long he cannot not do it!!!! Guess what... Two days before our anniversary I innocently asked where we wanted to go for dinner that day and he looked confused, asking “What’s on Thursday? Oh yeah, our anniversary... Well, I don’t know, do you have an idea?” I thought he was joking but no! He actually forgot and planned absolutely nothing... I started to cry and asked him “You’re not planning anything, are you?” He got angry and told me I was putting pressure on him and that yes it won’t be happening that day... I felt humiliated, I exploded asking him “Why? What game are you playing? You knew I was expecting it! Why?” He said he doesn’t have the time to plan it, that it takes time and voilà, just deal with it...

I was shocked, I felt like a piece of sh*t, stuck with a man who doesn’t care at all about what I want, about what I feel and dare use the lack of time excuse while he’s seating playing on his phone, reading and watching football with his pal as soon as he has a bit of free time. I felt completely down and alone. I told him I didn’t want it anymore, I wanted him to want it, to want me as his wife, to be excited about it, to be impatient to make it happen and instead I was with someone finding excuses and dragging his feet to do it. Later he came to talk to me, saying he understood, saying he was sorry to disappoint me and that he messed up, “I’ll make it up to you, I promise” I asked him “When? In one year? Six months?” he smirked and said “Not 6 months” and left me like that. It was last March.

Since then we went on holiday in Croatia and again I thought that maybeeee... But no. I kept my feelings inside to not put any pressure or nag him. I am very busy with our baby and don’t have much time for myself, I really suffer about it but do my best to keep a happy face and do everything in the house and for them.

I see him weeks after weeks spending his weekends in his books, on his phone or seeing his friend and I can’t help to think that he’s not planning anything. I don’t see him going out in his own in town (to jewellery shops for example) or planning a date night together by asking his parents to look after the baby so unless he’s very good at hiding, nothing will happen soon.

My only theory is that he waits for a specific date, our daughter first birthday in July or my birthday in September, which would ruin his “it won’t take 6 months” promise. It’s starting to turn me off.

Should I still expect something?

OP - this is internet. No one is here to turn against you.
You came to MN with a question.
And people who told you something that doesn’t agree with your stated position are not judging or criticising you.
They are just looking at the situation from a different view point, and years of life experience.

Doesn’t really matter, not much chance you’ll be able to take a breath and self-reflect.
Maybe later. Hopefully, not when it’s too late.

I understand where you are coming from OP.

I don’t think that you are being a nag at all.

Ignore the harsh posters on here. Sounds like they got out the wrong side of the bed.

Good luck with your talk tonight.

"Why do we need to get married ,it's only a piece of paper"but eventually the question becomes "Why not get married if it's only a piece of paper?"
If he has financial assets ,he's protecting them ,if not,it's because he doesn't love you or enjoys the power his refusal to propose gives him.

@Peaheadz Thank you%!

@ferando81 Good point. A lot to talk about tonight, hope I'll get some answers.

Of course I haven't Flamingo !!
Myself and my husband decided to get married ....I certainly wouldn't have waited around to be proposed to .... playing silly games .
The OP needs to adapt a more mature attitude.

ophelia stop being so frigging patronising. Clearly not everyone is a perfect as you.

Not remotely perfect Flamingo....but always knew my own mind and was always proactive and therefore, took control of my own life .
Perhaps you need to start you own thread about whatever is troubling you .... because you are a little bit too invested in the OP !

Good luck this evening OP. I haven't given up hope for your happy ending. You have just got to be clear and concise.
Explain why marriage is so important. Why as a primary carer to HIS CHILD you (and your child) are so unprotected by simple cohabitation.

Try to be calm. If he doesn't 'get it' he simply doesn't want it. His assets are more important. Don't play second fiddle to assets. ! Xx

I think it's too late for a spontaneous proposal now, even if he surprised you with the best proposal in the world, you would think it was only done not to upset you.

Best thing to do is iron out issues, good luck tonight

Oh get over yourself ophelia.

In fact in the past I have started a thread just like this.

Op does know her own mind - she is trying to take control of her life. Why are you being so bloody awful and patronising and down right rude?

The advice give on a site was stop giving open questions .
Tell him you have a daughter and want to marry.
Does he want a winter. Spring or summer wedding...

OP, men who say their ex was controlling, usually use that to stop their new partner from complaining about things. He said his ex didn't like him seeing his friends, well, it could have been because he spent more time with them than with her, and didn't pull his weight sharing the household chores. So she would complain about it, and he would accuse her of being controlling, of stopping him doing what he wanted to do.

That's why when a man says that his ex partner was controlling, it's a red flag.

Do you get any time to go and see your friends, or to sit and read a book, while he takes care of your child? Does he do any childcare or housework?
If the answer to those is "No", you shouldn't stay in this relationship, marriage or not.

I agree with pps that he doesn't want to marry you, and it's got nothing to do with what others perceive to be "your nagging" him about it. It's because he's better off unmarried. His assets are his, not joint, yet he gets the benefit of having someone to have sex with, who looks after the child, who does the housework, and who is also bringing money in, so his outgoings are less than if he was living on his own.

I hope your chat tonight gives you clarity.

So what is your point Flamingo? That you too are waiting around for a proposal?
That's sad and soooo last century.

OP, please take control of things and stop waiting around for your partner to dictate the direction you life should go in .

ophelia I was.

Your attitude is disgusting.

Don't propose to him! I never understand why people suggest that on threads like this.

Lovely girl, you're going to have to show done of that French strength and self-confidence! I completely understand why you're frustrated and confused - anyone would be.

As hard as it might be, it's time for you to start making plans that suit you and your child. If that means quitting your part-time job and going home to France, do it. Let him get on a plane and beg you to come back.

You didn't even think about getting married until last summer.

You then dropped hints about weddings on your Pinterest page, aka didn't communicate this at all, until you finally blew up at him in October last year for not reading your mind about a proposal.

"I exploded and yelled “I wanted you to propose and you offered me a printer!” he answered absolutely nothing, he looked confused but said no word and we didn’t talk after that [until February]"

So you didn't even come to any decision back in October. You mentioned wanting a proposal but it doesn't sound like you've even asked him if he wants it.

It's not until February this year that you actually talk about it and work out if he wants to marry you. No plans are made other than knowing he is now theoretically on board. A few weeks later (March this year?) you start crying when he asks you if you have any ideas for what to do on your anniversary. He tells you that you are pressuring him and that it takes time, but you "explode" at him and tell him you don't want it any more. Even then, he apologises to you.

From his perspective, you've only been on the same page about this for three months. And then a month later, you call it off then put it back on again. He's had two months! Eight weeks! If you are determined to have him propose to you, then be patient. And perhaps find a way to work on your communication with him.

Good post Hont .
Flamingo, wow, you are angry !

How did it go?

Only stay with and build a life with a man who is kind, loving and caring.

You have a baby daughter so you have a responsibility to her to give a loving, caring and peaceful environment.

She will learn from her parents how to treat others.

She will learn from her dad how men behave.

She will learn from her mum how to be treated.

Never allow anyone to treat you like a dog where your opinions and feelings don't count.

What kind, thoughtful things does he do for you daily op?

Or is he selfish and lazy?

No one can treat you badly unless you let them.

He is using you I fear to get his house looked after, his meals cooked and his child looked after all for free.

He's good at promising isn't he? He probably will only marry you if he thinks he's going to lose his cushy, easy, lazy life when you leave him.

That thought alone would play on my mind if I did get proposed to.

Op, you are worth so much more. Please don't settle for such a poor example of a partner in the long run.

Marry him if you are offered it just to get rights to his assets and security for his daughter and then file for divorce if he proves to be as rotten as he sounds on here!!!

Good luck!

It's always your fault, isn't it, OP?

When Harry marries Meghan, it's your fault because surely you'll want a big do. You explain that you don't and it's still your fault because you'll resent him if you don't. He's insisting on pinning motives on you that aren't there because then he can do what he likes and it'll always be your fault.

Hell, it was his ex's fault as well. She forced him to propose!

(How do you force a man to propose? Best I can think of is threaten to leave if he doesn't, which is entirely reasonable because you want different things. And all that does is place a choice on him, and he's responsible for that choice.)

In my experience, men are generally pretty good at going after things that they want. Unlike women, they are socialised to think that this is a good thing. I never heard of a man delaying the purchase of a new computer game 'to make sure it's special' or some such. Usually, if a man wants something and knows how to go about it, he'll do it.

As others have said, you've made yourself very vulnerable and really, the only 'bargaining chip' (I am sorry for that crass phrase, I can't think of a better word) you have is yourself. If this is that important to you, then all you can really do is say that you will leave if it does not happen (and be prepared to follow through). No doubt he will again twist this to make it all your fault and he's the victim, blah blah, but that will only prove that you do need to leave if he's not prepared to respect you enough to take responsibility for his own actions (or inactions). It will give him a choice, and you will know from his choice how he really feels.

I disapprove of his willingness to knock you up and make you financially vulnerable without committing to you, but I disapprove far, far more of his snivelling, craven, cowardly insistence on making it your fault at every turn. The way he insists on reading your mind to suit his purposes, even when you've explained to him that a small simple ceremony is fine, is so cowardly and hateful it makes me want to punch him.

No ophelia I'm not angry but you continue to be mean spirited and nasty and give out awful advice. Do you think you're helping op?

Spot on PoorYorick, I agree with everything you said there!

How did the chat go last night, OP?

[UPDATE]

Ok, so he came back from work and we had THE talk.

First, he said he was disappointed that I found the scrapbook. Then disappointed again that I had another look at him (which I understand) but he didn't understand my anger because, for him, what he's doing with his plans (to propose) is none of my business and because I am not supposed to know his plans I have nothing to say about how he organises himself. He seemed and still seems angry at me.

He added that more we talked about it the less it wanted to marry me.

I explained to him that I was frustrated to always wait to do everything on his own terms, that since we have a family I wanted to get married properly - nothing fancy - to give a real family to our daughter, stability and to be honest protection and security to myself. I talked about the fact that I was French with no legal rights on our child and that everything was his stuff (house, money, etc.). He didn't say much, except that "Look, I can speed it up a bit but don't expect it to happen tomorrow".

So it seems like it will happen at some point.

@PoorYorick You know, I already wondered a few times if his ex was really crazy or he didn't drive her like that. It started not long after I moved to live with him, when he started to nag me quite a lot for ridiculous things and it escalated since then. Yesterday was about me feeding our daughter at the restaurant "Stop being our child's slave, she can eat by herself!" I was like "WTF?!" It came from nowhere. Same at bath time when she was slapping my face laughing and I told her no! to make her stop and he told me to stop that. By the past I yelled at each other and I ended up being the b*tch and controlling one. Now I just ignore him and do things on my own.

@fluffyrobin He's never the same. Sometimes he's loving and affectionate, takes initiatives, takes over to look after the baby without me asking, help me wit the chores and sometimes he nags me, telling me he works enough during the day if I ask him for help, criticises what I do, say or even like. Hard to follow him, really. I know all relationships have their problems, I am not seeking the perfect relationship or partner, I am not perfect myself, just consistency I guess and respect.

So you’re basically back where you started? Or have I missed something?