When will he propose?

[Frenchintheuk]

Hi everyone!

I am French, I live in the uk for a few years and am in a relationship with my partner for 4 years now. We have a beautiful baby girl since last summer.

I never really thought about getting married by the past but everything changed when I had my daughter, I started to feel the urge to do things properly.

My boyfriend has been married before, quoting his words, his ex was “crazy and controlling”, he decided to leave her, went back to his parents and they stayed separated for 2 years before getting a divorce.
Long before we had our child he asked me what were my thoughts about marriage and I told him it wasn’t necessary for me, he simply said ok and we never talked about it again. Everything was fine until I gave birth to our daughter and realised I actually wanted to get married. I naively started to talk about friends getting married, posted wedding stuff on my Pinterest, etc. thinking he would notice it... So when my birthday arrived in September I thought he would propose (also, we were going to his friends’ wedding that day!) but he didn’t and instead he asked me if I wanted a printer for my birthday?!!! (to help with my work) Imagine my face... He noticed something was wrong but I wasn’t ready to talk about it and kept a fake smile on my face all day long at his friends’ wedding and the next few days, looking happy and excited with my new printer.

A few weeks later during an argument he told me he suspected I resented him, I exploded and yelled “I wanted you to propose and you offered me a printer!” he answered absolutely nothing, he looked confused but said no word and we didn’t talk after that. Days, weeks, months passed, February arrived and I thought that it could happened for Valentine’s Day. We left the baby at my parents and went out for a couple of drinks and a nice dinner together, it was romantic but again, nothing happened. After dinner and another drink he said “let’s go home”, I was disappointed but showed nothing. A few days later he noticed I was quite depressed and we talked about it, I told him that he never said anything when I talked about getting married and I felt like he didn’t care about my feelings, he answered that he wanted it, that it was the right thing to do, that he actually thought about doing it for Valentine’s Day but it was tense between us so he didn’t (he also used the same excuse for not doing it at my birthday as I was dealing with postpartum hormones withdrawal and was “too emotional” to quote him). Whatever. I felt like he was searching for excuses, always putting me responsible, not very fair. I told him it was hard for me as I was waiting since last September and he understood.

A few weeks later, our anniversary (4 years together) was approaching I joked saying that it could be a fantastic occasion if IT could happen, wink wink! He smiled and I thought OMG it’s going to happen! It’s sure, it’s the perfect occasion and he knows I’m waiting for soooo long he cannot not do it!!!! Guess what... Two days before our anniversary I innocently asked where we wanted to go for dinner that day and he looked confused, asking “What’s on Thursday? Oh yeah, our anniversary... Well, I don’t know, do you have an idea?” I thought he was joking but no! He actually forgot and planned absolutely nothing... I started to cry and asked him “You’re not planning anything, are you?” He got angry and told me I was putting pressure on him and that yes it won’t be happening that day... I felt humiliated, I exploded asking him “Why? What game are you playing? You knew I was expecting it! Why?” He said he doesn’t have the time to plan it, that it takes time and voilà, just deal with it...

I was shocked, I felt like a piece of sh*t, stuck with a man who doesn’t care at all about what I want, about what I feel and dare use the lack of time excuse while he’s seating playing on his phone, reading and watching football with his pal as soon as he has a bit of free time. I felt completely down and alone. I told him I didn’t want it anymore, I wanted him to want it, to want me as his wife, to be excited about it, to be impatient to make it happen and instead I was with someone finding excuses and dragging his feet to do it. Later he came to talk to me, saying he understood, saying he was sorry to disappoint me and that he messed up, “I’ll make it up to you, I promise” I asked him “When? In one year? Six months?” he smirked and said “Not 6 months” and left me like that. It was last March.

Since then we went on holiday in Croatia and again I thought that maybeeee... But no. I kept my feelings inside to not put any pressure or nag him. I am very busy with our baby and don’t have much time for myself, I really suffer about it but do my best to keep a happy face and do everything in the house and for them.

I see him weeks after weeks spending his weekends in his books, on his phone or seeing his friend and I can’t help to think that he’s not planning anything. I don’t see him going out in his own in town (to jewellery shops for example) or planning a date night together by asking his parents to look after the baby so unless he’s very good at hiding, nothing will happen soon.

My only theory is that he waits for a specific date, our daughter first birthday in July or my birthday in September, which would ruin his “it won’t take 6 months” promise. It’s starting to turn me off.

Should I still expect something?

The scrapbook sounds nice, but could’ve been started ages ago and he has never actually shared it with you. His actual actions sound pretty selfish.

When plans change, why do you go along with it? Couldn’t he go on his own and you carry on with your original plans?

He maybe wants you to be surprised and not see it coming but because you're bringing it up all the time and you're always expecting it, it won't be a surprise! It's my 10th wedding anniversary this summer and I was desperate for him to propose, dropping hints here and there and one day we were sat watching an episode of something on tv and he said he'd never waste money getting married! I felt heartbroken but around a couple of months later he did the whole proposal and I was floored! He'd told me he didn't want to get married to throw me off so I wouldn't be expecting it.... Just a thought for you.

@Loopytiles The scrapbook is still as it was two months ago, no changes, no lines added, nothing. He just left it there for months without working on it and he continues to tell him me that it will happen. I wonder why he doesn't work on it and feel like crap seeing that he prefers reading, playing on his phone, seeing his friend instead of finishing it, all of that while knowing that I suffer to wait. It's like this whole sh*t is screaming to me "You want proof that he's having fun of you? Here you go!". I just can't believe him anymore and wonder if I should tell him my discovery or simply slam the door of our relationship.

@ohfourfoxache I think I am still stupidly too nice and don't have the balls to drop the baby to him and let him deal with it. Might change from now.

Ok OP , let's unpick this in a clinical and logical way. There is (usually) not much benefit for the cohabiting partner of a young child to get married. Unless there is the overwhelming love to want to make the partner secure (and in your case - happy)
What is HIS situation. What is yours.
Is he the sole earner or higher earner. ? Your home ? Does he own it ? Joint rent/own. ?

There is also the fear of being 'ripped off' again. (I know I know but it's a common feeling among divorced men ) . What happened at the end of his last marriage. Did he 'lose' what he regarded as his to to ex.

The majority of men do not want to marry except to have children. When you have the children first you give up your advantage. It's very very unwise .

Look, this man is a lazy, selfish, woman-hating prick. Please think about getting rid of him, as much as you can (he will have a right to remain in contact with you and the baby, but also an obligation to pay maintenance). He will not get suddenly better, nicer, kinder, more 'romantic', because as far as he is concerned you are a 'woman' rather than a human being. He will never have any respect for you, or put himself out in any way for your benefit.

A. He might never propose.
B. Ex's are always crazy and controlling.
C. You are a grown woman, if you want to get married tell him.
If he doesn't want to marry you, you have a choice, stay as you are, or leave him and possibly meet someone else. But whatever you do, don't ignore what you want or need and hang around hoping he will want to marry you some day. It's 2018, the days of men making all the decisions are long gone thankfully.

What a great post by font

Found myself nodding, in total agreement

@fontofnoknowledge He's the highest earner, he also own the house (I am on the contract but he paid for it), we have joined account, he never said anything about the money I spend, always said he trusted me and never made any negative comment or what so we are pretty good about the money stuff. Always says that his money is also mine, his stuff also mine, blah blah blah. I am a very reasonable person about money, never make crazy purchases and if I want to get something expensive (mostly for the baby) I always talk about it with him before to avoid any problem.

About his ex I don't know the details about money stuff, he never talked about it and I never asked, he usually never talks about their relationship anyway. All I know is that she was controlling everything, what we was doing, when he could see his friends (mostly never) or his family (that she didn't like), she was seeking attention all the time and kind of forced him to get married - learnt that recently as he told me "Have you ever thought that I could have been forced to marry her? That she put so much pressure on me that I convinced myself that I wanted to do it?" He never talked about it before.

Seriously, go full time or at least seek a legal cohabitation agreement.

His money is NOT yours.

I dont particularly want to get married. If it was important to DP and he was expecting me to propose (I know the genders are switched but if I was bothered we do have the sort of dynamic where I might)....I probably would never get around to it. If he told me wanted to get married, though, I would probably agree, and let him crack on organising it.

What I am trying to say is that perhaps your DP isnt opposed to being married, but doesnt want the whole big engagement and proposal and wedding and all that faff. If he is definitely for the idea of being married then just ask when he would like to get married (next year? What month?) And vaguely what sort of wrdding he would like and agree how much to spend. Then organise it, et voila.

It's not just a case of 'oh, poor man who doesn't want all this bridezilla nonsense' though. He's already teasing the OP about how he might propose, would have proposed, will consider proposing as long as she's sufficiently obedient...

Why on Earth have you so llittle self respect?

Why on Earth are you cooking and cleaning and doing childcare for free while your partner is working towards building his wealth at your expense?

Why should your partner marry you? He would lose his assets by doing so!

If he wanted to he could kick you out and you would have no money and no home.

Why have you allowed yourself to be put in such a vulnerable position?

You are like a begging dog waiting for the master to throw her scraps!

He doesn't respect you hence changing plans at the last moment. If he liked you a lot he'd never be so cruel.

The dynamics are all wrong. You: weak He: power.

You need to claw back some respect. You've given him everything for free: a cook, cleaner and babysitter.

He hasn't married you because you have given him everything on a plate for free.

I would contact the former wife and listen to what she says about him.

Ask him to do 50% of the childcare and house work while you sort out a job for yourself.

Ask him to put your name on the house deeds and have deadlines for everything important.

His responses to any of the above will tell you everything you need to know about him.

My situation was eerily similar to yours. 20 years down the line and almost divorced (albeit fair amicably at the moment) my best advice to you is "be careful what you wish for"
Many pp's have pointed out that he doesn't appear to be good marriage material. In hindsight I was so focussed on, tbh, getting what I wanted, I omitted to think long and hard about if I actually wanted it.

No one can be 'forced' to marry someone, so get the thought that he was 'forced' to marry the ex right out of your head.

Here's the thing. He doesn't want to marry you, but he also doesn't want to lose you. That's why he's doing the 'someday' routine, putting you off with excuses and then finding reasons why it's 'your fault' he hasn't proposed. You're pressuring him, you want a fancy wedding, things are 'tense'. It's all bullshit and intended to keep you with him without him having to marry you.

You can either accept the fact that he doesn't want to marry you and be satisfied with the status quo or you can give him an ultimatum; 'marry me by XX or we are finished'. The thing to remember though, is that IF you are going to give an ultimatum you damned well better be prepared to carry it out.

Hey French, as a fellow French in the UK your situation makes me really sad. As others have said I would also think long and hard about your relationship because this man doesn't have your best interests at heart. You moved here for him, you gave him a child and you are doing all the childcare while he's out building his career. Remember that if you separated now you would be entitled to nothing apart from child maintenance and many men manage to avoid paying that. Put yourself first: what do you want in the long term? Do you have any support in the UK? Maybe you could start saving some money in your own account in case you need it in the future. Think about a deadline - say the end of this year- and if he hasn't proposed just move out. It sounds like you could do so much better than this man

OP, I think you have answered your own question. There is nothing 'in it for him'.

Men marry because they want to make a longterm comment and because the love they have for their partner makes them wish to 'protect ' them . They will also marry if they have found the person they want to have a family with and the woman is demanding the legal contract of marriage as a prerequisite, as diminishing her career prospects in order to have children disadvantages her.

In your case the last point is mute as you gave away that 'power' by having a baby before marriage.

The first two issues are big ones. It is all very well saying how generous he is and how reasonable you are. That is all under his control. He can be as relaxed as he likes because he can take it all away tomorrow. Marriage however removes his rights to that control (at least - divorce does) and you become legally entitled to a proportion of his assets including property, savings, cars household goods...

His Only advantage in marrying you is that he wants you to be cared for and protected financially . If he is not marrying you , I am sorry but it's because his feelings for you do not outweigh his desire not to share all his 'worldly goods'.

I think you need to ask yourself a hard question. Would we be together still if we hadn't had a child. ( you haven't said if your little one was planned).

If the answer is 'probably not' then your chances are slim.

If yes then you have a couple of options.

1. Personally I would leave. Right now. (Or this weekend). Tell him straight that his refusal to marry places you in a legal and personal disadvantage incompatible with a partnership. That if he loved you he would want to protect you and provide security. Make it clear that you do not require a 'wedding' that a simple registry office with two witnesses would suffice. An inability to agree to that shows a disregard for you that is unacceptable for you to live with.

You refuse to return and live with him until you have made that visit to the registry office. He may actually realise what he has when you are gone and may make him realise he wants you and baby more than he doesn't want marriage. Equally he may not.but if this turns out to be the case why would you want to marry someone or live with someone with such little regard. ?

1. You tell him your reasons as stated above - set a date by which you want to be married (no vague 'engagement') and you stick with it.

1 is better because you are making a choice for yourself. You are saying 'look - I have been plain with my wishes and you have ignored them. Now I am taking my own action and leaving. If you want me to change my mind, then YOU have to take action.
2 is an ultimatum and people rarely respond well to them and they are hard to stick to in your circumstances.

Why do you just follow him around like a little dog if plans change?

I think you need to find some assertiveness inside you. He's unlikely to propose now; he knows you're not going to leave him and you're going to put up with his nonsense.

Thanks for your replies.

@fontofnoknowledge I cried reading your message, it looks like you could be right. He knows I found the scrapbook, the first thing he said was "I am disappointed, why do you have to search for things? Why do you have to look at things?" I said that I won't be blamed, that I sound it by mistake, not sneaking around and that I did nothing wrong. I then asked him why it was taking him so long, I was seriously asking for an answer, I was giving him an opportunity to explain himself, to justify himself and be truly honest because I can think and think again about it I don't find any logical reason (except the ones you listed of course but I want him to admit it if it's the truth about what he feels) he shaked his head and said that we'd talk later. Later he had to work and only came very late. We still haven't spoken at all. This morning I feel so down, looking at my baby playing and wondering what am I going to do?

About the baby, we wanted it, it was planned.

@Shoxfordian The fear of being too controlling and compared to his ex wife and make him leave? It's ridiculous when I write it down as I realise he's the one actually controlling me.

You're not being controlling to expect him to stick with plans you make. I'd expect friends to be reliable so it's certainly something you can expect from your partner. I'm sorry you seem so unhappy. I don't think he's got any incentive to propose but would you really want to marry a man who is happy to make you miserable like this?

I wouldn't want to propose either. You have mounted this with so much pressure and aggression that it has ruined it for him.... he probably feels like the choice has been taken away from him plus any joy. Imagine every event knowing you're going to get screamed at if you don't propose and that if you do it is expected and he'd probably be doing it not to get yelled at. The first case is ridiculous as he didn't even know you wanted to get married.

You've made a right mess of this one, you say he doesn't think about you but you don't seem to be thinking of him at all either.

I think you are both at fault in places here. He has said that his first wife 'forced' him to get married, so why are you trying to do the same thing? Why did they spilt up?

Agree with all other posters that if he cared about you feeling happy and secure, he would have proposed by now. He is toying with you, teasing you, without actually following through. And your incessant pressure of 'When when when?' and whatever about that bloody scrapbook is just turning this into a pressure cooker of a relationship.

To put it simply, he has nothing to gain by marrying you. You have everything to gain by marrying him as you are in a vulnerable position right now in terms of finances/long-term security. It doesn't sound like there is much romance here, and not much respect on both sides either; you 'follow him around like a little dog' - he continually changes plans.

I honestly think you need a break from each other to give both of you some headspace. And in the meantime, for god's sake stop asking him when he is going to propose! The more you ask, the more you're pushing him away.

Would you be happy to continue the relationship without getting married, or is it now a deal-breaker? It seems like this has now become such a big issue that it is defining your whole relationship. And that's not good or healthy for either of you.

Are you not going to feel guilty, an anti-climax if / when he does propose?

After all you seem to have been badgering him about it, if / when it does happen, to me, it wouldn't feel special, I would feel like I have forced the situation.

When he said 'not 6 months', did he say that exactly? or - 'less than six months'?

If 'not 6 months' be careful how you interpret that, it could mean a lot longer than 6 months. Are you sure you are not just wishful thinking that it means within 6 months?

If I were you, I'd forget about the whole proposal / wedding subject. It's rather tarnished now and will just feel like a forced situation if it were to happen.