divorcing him because of the way he talks to me?

[HollyHunter18]

My husband tells me to stop talking and listen, he uses the f word, shoots me nasty looks, imitates my voice, raises his, gesticulates wildly ( Mediterranean) and lectures me insisting on not being interrupted. These conversations get no where but result in me wanting to drive my head through a wall afterwards ( never have) and just feel so viscerally stressed and distressed. I still can’t get my head around divorcing him as it seems like such a destructive and cruel thing to do but I literally can’t take the “ way” he talks to me. Anyone else found that alone clinched it?

He told me that we need to agree on a timescale and I told him not to raise his voice at me or my timescale would get shorter and he said: is that a threat? I told him no that I was just telling him that I couldn’t tolerate being shouted at anymore. I feel really tearful and grief stricken and then he makes me feel like it’s all
My doing and I feel so angry.

Oh holly. He sounds such a manipulative bastard, he really does
Just don't let him call the shots. He can say 'gently' all that he wants til he's blue in the face. But if it's not what you want he can just fuck off.

I've just read your thread in one go and I'm so pleased you have found the strength to tell him you want out.

The thing is, you will feel tearful and grief stricken. Situations like this are just shit and it's normal to feel that way.
Just go with it but always remember the way you feel right now, tonight, will not be forever and you will find happiness again

In my experience things will stay awful for a little while, as he realises you’re serious and he can not control you any longer. Then when he’s finally gone, and the tantrums subside, and you get the space to find some inner peace and balance that’s been missing for oh such a long time... you’ll suddenly realise that you feel like you’re floating :)

having such a huge weight taken off your shoulders is what makes life liveable again. Even the hardest things seem easier when you don’t have this huge drain on your mental and emotional energy just sucking your life and soul and power out of you.

So please keep on going. You have to push through this next nasty bit as you’ll find lots of obstacles thrown in your way. But keep on going... because of you don’t, you’ll stop and stay in one of the most draining, stressful and upsetting places to be in the whole world. X

Thank you WellThisisShit
I think he was being manipulative last night? I find it hard to trust my perception of this though. It’s like what he does is really upset me bringing me to my brink so to speak and then pulls me back. I’m not sure he realises he’s doing it?

Yes, he was. Don't get drawn into his mind games. He's choosing to play Mr Nice Guy now to get what he wants.
He's doing a number on you regardless of whether he's aware of it or not.

Sounds to me like being cruel and manipulative is his standard operating level so don’t feel you have to check yourself all the time.

It takes a long time to get out of that mindset by the way. A looooong time. You will get there.

I saw this a while ago on FB, and I think it makes a lot of sense:

If you are going through hell, keep walking

I think you have a massive amount of work to do on yourself. Any chance that you could get yourself some counseling to help through the divorce process? To stop with the second guessing you are currently doing.

So now to lists. Find yourself a nice notebook and start making lists. Everybody here will help.

Childcare - you are going to need some baby sitting help for appointments etc.

List one is a list of solicitors. You need to see more than one. And you need to take a lot of documentation with you.

Information is empowering. And will limit his power over you.

If possible find some friends/contacts that divorced well. Ask them for lawyer recommendations.

Get appointments with recommended lawyers. 2 reasons for this. It's important to find a lawyer you can work with. I got lucky with no 4. The other reason is if you've seen them he can't use them.

While waiting for appointments get all your and his financial information together:
Tax returns
Bank accounts
Salary slips
Savings accounts
Investments
Life insurance
Pensions
Mortgages
Debts
Assets
Get the house valued
This will enable a lawyer to tell you what you might reasonably receive.

Divorce for unreasonable behavior as cited in your op.

50:50 childcare is normal but sounds unlikely. There are sites like entitledto that will tell you what you might be entitled to from the state. There are also maintenance calculators.

Write 2 lists in terms of kids, house, cars, maintenance etc:
What you'd like (copy to lawyer)
What you'd accept (private)

Do not tell him what you are doing. Just get on with it quietly. The more of a head start you have the better of you will be.

@misscph1973 yes yes! That’s exactly what I was thinking about.

“If you are going through hell, keep walking”

I saw that phrase on here years ago, when I was going through my own personal hell, and it really struck home.

Holly, that’s what I was trying to get out in my previous post. If you stop now you will stay in this situation, which is awful, it really is a kind of hell, eroding your sense of self, and making everything terribly unhappy and miserable, just grindingly awful. But if you keep on pushing through, you will get to a different place, to a place that isn’t hell. A place that’s free, where you can make a life that is whatever you make it... good, dull or rather nice, but whatever it will be, it won’t be this unremitting hell!

And yes Holly, I think you’re completely dead on right. He is manipulating you, and that’s exactly what he was doing last night.

He sounds like an extremely skilled manipulator and probably has years of practice, possibly from seeing his parents do the same, or from exercising the same control over past girlfriends.

But however he’s learnt it, he’s very good at it.

He may not consciously know how skilled he is at doing this. He may not acknowledge how well he knows how to bring you right to the brink and then back again, how to press all your buttons and really manipulate you so expertly.

However, that doesn’t mean he’s not able to do it!

This was something that confused me for ages with my stbxh. He was a terrible husband, incredibly cruel, and deliberately unkind all the time to me. But, when posters on mumsnet talked about abusive men and all the ways they were abusive, it sounded so, clever and purposeful. And I couldn’t see my husband in that description. He wasn’t an arch nemesis or a grand evil villain in a storybook! He was actually an extremely damaged man who was acting out that damage onto me, and was incapable of being a nice and normal husband in a nice and normal life.

It took me ages to see that just because he wasn’t consciously planning to be abusive, didn’t mean to say he wasn’t capable of abuse.

He was actually very skilled at being manipulative, but did it instinctively, rather than plotting and planning it consciously. When I realised that everything fell into place.

Obviously our partners are very different, but I think there might be an element of similarly in that way?

Sorry I’m writing loads to you this morning!

Just thinking about how hard it is for you to trust your perceptions at the moment:

Just wanted to say I big yes, you are definitely being manipulated, which is why you’re finding everything so confusing and not being able to quite trust your own perceptions. Have a look at ‘gas lighting’ on the internet. It’s a good phrase to explain how confusing it can get when the person closest to you is lying and manipulating the truth all the time, and telling you that what you think just happened, didn’t happen.

Like last night, I’m sure he’d deny it all and leave you feeling confused and unsure of yourself, but here’s the thing:

You can not trust him to report accurately with the reality of what’s actually happening.

And you’re starting to realise this, which is really good. It’s part of you starting to say no to the way he’s treating you, pushing back against the meanness and nastiness he’s pushing so forcefully onto you.

It’s a really good sign you’re starting to question his version of you and what’s happening.

Before, when he denied doing or saying things that you’re sure happened, and when he said you got the wrong end of the stick, it made you really unsure of yourself, because if he says it so convincingly, maybe he knows best...

But now you’re starting to say “no! I know what happened and it wasn’t that”

But because your life has become all about pleasing him, and getting his approval, it’s second nature to try and get his agreement to your version of reality. But you won’t get his agreement, and the next stage is you getting the courage and independence to realise that you don’t need him to agree or sanction anything. Reality happens with or without his agreement. And you can make decisions and carry out actions without his sanctioning them.

It’s actually a really big step. And you’re getting there. And that’s going to be so good for your happiness and mental and emotional well-being. Which are important. Really important!

I hope you don’t mind me saying, Well done

WellThisIsShit I think that’s what it is with my husband. The maddening bit is that he does this and then says it’s me that wants wants to separate or that I somehow got the wrong end of the stick. When I told him I wanted to sell the house and he move our he replied “ that’s what I’ve been saying” but last night when I said that we were separating he said” that’s what you said you wanted”. I find this really hard as he’s putting all the
Psychological responsibility on me. About two years ago after he shouted at me “go and see your lawyer and let’s gwt on with the f***g story!” I spent 3k on lawyers fees but then couldn’t persevere and when I reminded him of his instruction he told me I had got the wrong end of the stick.

Thanks so much WellThisIsShit I really appreciate your posts and it’s really helping. I’m not there yet I’m terms of the well done as I’ve crimbled at this point before ( see my previous post).

Another thing he’s doing is fussing over children in front of be with lots of “ I love yous”. This morning I felt like shouting “ Yea we’ve got it you love everyone except mummy!”

Sorry I meant I’ve crumbled at this point before

I’m glad I’m helping, I’m so sorry you’re in a horrible situation. You sound in so much pain, he’s really sticking the knife in isn’t he? And YES, that is on purpose, whatever he pretends afterwards. It’s spite, pure and simple.

And, if he’s using interacting with the children to hurt you now, imagine what that will turn into in a few years. Imagine hearing your little boy tell you that you’re lazy, or that he won’t help you because that’s what he’s learnt from his daddy.

That’s how the boys treat the girls... and with rigid thinking, how will you counter that? it’s something I’ve read about on here, and it’s heart breaking.

It doesn’t seem to happen if the children aren’t growing up in one home together seeing it, so even if they go to daddy’s home and he behaves badly, they are balanced out by the behaviour and attitudes they grow up with at mummy’s home. Which is a compelling reason for getting split now, when they are still young, and when they haven’t got anything to unlearn yet.

Don’t feel bad about attempting to leave before, and then not going further with it. It can take many attempts before you go through with it. That’s ok. Each time is a step forwards, not a step back.

And we’ll still be here to support you whatever you decide this time.

I will just point out that when you write about going to the solicitor last time, you weren’t actually trying to split up for you, you were still carrying out his orders weren’t you? And then when he pretended Black was white and up was down and yes was no, and that he hadn’t really said that he wanted to split and he wanted you to go see that solicitor... you stopped and crept back into your hole, where he wanted you, just as he wanted you to do.

He manipulated you and controlled that whole situation. Just like you said about last night, he took you to the edge and back... that’s what he did then isn’t it? He’s a real expert at that it seems, hummm, he’s sounding less and less nice isn’t he?!

I think that when you split up, it will be when you do it for you, not you acting out what you think are his wishes.

Now, treat yourself very kindly. Just because he has decided not to, doesn’t mean to say you should follow suit. You are worth so much. You are a valuable, amazing human being with feelings and thoughts and needs and wishes, just like everybody else. Give yourself something nice today. Like, 5 mins with a cup of tea, or putting your favourite hand cream on, or perfume. Or buy a yummy cake if you’re out and can manage any shopping! You need to start remembering how important and lovely you yourself are...

Holly - I don’t know where to start.

Similar position and xh would not talk about his behaviour. To him it was normal. He’s also Mediterranean and I saw his family and community friends act similarly.

I was merely informed of things, nothing discussed with me at all. It got worse over the years and if I tried to be assertive he’d come back harder. He was crazy making.

I was depressed, a former shadow of myself and couldn’t see a way out. It affected my health.

We separated 2.5 years ago, something forced the situation. I’m back in my home town and he’s followed and rents somewhere.

Go back home - you need the support you didn’t get in your marriage. He loves his kids so I’m sure he’ll be motivated to see them. You move to where his work is, you’ll be screwed.

I thought he must be suck it damaged I then read Why Does he Do That by Lundy. My conclusion was actually my exh is just nasty. He does it cos he can.

Sick or damaged.

Thanks for all the advice. Does anyone else get this terrible desparation when dkmowkbe walks away from them
Even when they’ve instigated it themselves? To me men start looking so handsome, clever and like such a catch when they are leaving me. I know it’s tirly screwed up.

Totally screwed up

Yup - it’s probably your fear of ending things OP. Btw my ex loves our son (to the point of threatening to take him to home country and not return).

When we separated he became the model father (v common I hear) but after about 6 months reverted back to normal.

Ds is pleased we aren’t together. Loves his father but recognised him for what he is.

Holly, a friend of mine was v unhappy in her marriage (no communication, useless in bed, emotionally closed etc) and from what I could see he was indeed impossible as a partner. She struggled with her DH to fix if for at least a year (relate etc) She started telling him (and us) she wanted to split. He had a fling, she desperately wanted him back then. They split anyway. Took her a year or so to recover, I won't lie, but she has never looked back, has her own gorgeous little place, and has been far happier than I can ever remember he being while she was married.

But yeah, he's the devil you know at the moment. But you are not happy, and you could be, if you could believe in yourself.

Holly I'm so glad you're getting such solid advice here, and I just wanted to say well done for taking the first step. If you move back home, there will be people around you who can let you know that you are not wrong here. He can make you doubt yourself because there is nobody there who can say to you, no, that's NOT what he said. I can't help wondering, WHY you ended up so isolated. But I bet it wasn't your choice.

Oh and of course you're wondering if you're doing the right thing. He's doing the charm offensive, he's looking like the person you fell in love with. But I think that person doesn't really exist, it's just like a suit he puts on when it will be to his advantage.

Hope you’re ok OP