divorcing him because of the way he talks to me?

[HollyHunter18]

My husband tells me to stop talking and listen, he uses the f word, shoots me nasty looks, imitates my voice, raises his, gesticulates wildly ( Mediterranean) and lectures me insisting on not being interrupted. These conversations get no where but result in me wanting to drive my head through a wall afterwards ( never have) and just feel so viscerally stressed and distressed. I still can’t get my head around divorcing him as it seems like such a destructive and cruel thing to do but I literally can’t take the “ way” he talks to me. Anyone else found that alone clinched it?

Op exactly, he thinks because he has the upper hand he can get away with this behaviour. You need to tell him it will end in tears, his.
He wont feel so sure of himself if he realises there will be consequences, and you will feel stronger when you have some options.
He is a bully, they often back down when confronted.
Don't put yourself at risk, hope and work for change, but prepare to go if that can't happen

I asked him if he’d object to carrying down a big pile of laundry this morning so I could carry baby. Was met with a steely look: “
I won’t object”. I said well you did before? Then I front of the children “
I just object to the way you talk to me”. “ Can I just tell you something?”. I told him No he couldn’t in front of the children. I was told to fuck off. I want him to leave before I sell this house. Can he make me live near to him or am I free to move where I like?

He told me to duck off because I told him that No he couldn’t tell me something in front of the children and “ indulge himself” I said”you think you’re the most important person in this house”. I know that was provocative but I’m so angry. I have a stressful day with my son’s assessment and I don’t need to be told to fuck off first thing. Sorry for posts but this is keeping me sane.

Oh OP, I really sympathise. I know how this kind of negativity and walking on eggshells sucks the life out of you. The thing is, you're stuck in power play. Your H has the power, at the moment, to play nice or nasty and choose how he makes you feel. It's bullying and manipulation. It's a choice he is making, each and every time.
I think over time you will (and should) lose respect for him which will take his power away. You can find the happiness that you so deserve elsewhere. You don't need validation from him.
BTW, my toxic ex learned how to play these mind games from his dad. Make of that what you will.

Just seen your update OP! Clearly you are turning the corner and starting to claw your self-respect back. That's very good news.

Thanks squishee his family are pretty strange in my opinion - lots of anger and disappointment. I want him to move out before we sell the house.

Squishee do you think your ex was conscious of playing mind games? I think my husband just feels he is not being treated with the respect he deserves and feels self righteous and convinced I am unreasonable and it’s all my fault.

Holly, earlier on you write about the reasons you can't leave, and one reason you list is that you worry that your DH ill become depressed. You are not responsible for his happiness. It sounds to me like you carry such a burden on your shoulders, that you feel responsible for everybody. I know you have young children, but you need to step back and allow yourself to stop being responsible for everything.

The dialogue between you and your DH that you describe is so sad, both of you are so wary of each other, you are both in defensive mode. It must be so draining to be in that place, for both of you. I think it will be very difficult for the two of you to overcome such a dynamic.

I’ve told him I want to separate. Um pretty terrified.

I’m terrified. Not of him but of how I’ll manage as I need to sell house, move, find schools etc all single handed and with asd son young baby and six weeks summer holidays from nursery.

You'll cope. You just need to be strong.

Imagine not having to walk on eggshells all the time. Imagine how amazing that will be.

You can do this OP. It takes a strong person to put up with all the BS you have been putting up with for so long...
Think of all that you will be able to do with your physical and mental energy once it's no longer being sapped by your demoralising H.

To answer your question, I'm not really sure if my ex was aware of it. Once I had read up on his personality type (narcissistic and manipulative) and put it to him that he ticked all the boxes, of course he flat out denied it and made out I was in the wrong, as always.

Oh, wow, well done, Holly! You will be fine, but it's a scary moment, isn't it? I remember so clearly when I did the same just over a year ago.

Just take one step at a time. It might help if you write a list. And actually, you are not doing it single handed, it's not like your STBXH is going to magically vanish, he is still the father of your DC. A lot of decisions can't be made without him, and he will have to do a lot himself.

I’ve scanned this thread.

First well done for just effin telling him. Prepare to be branded a hysterical, irrational witch and that he will drag you through the courts and that you’ll never take his kids away from him blah blah blah.

I would advise you seek legal advice promptly as I think it would be a smart move to know what your rights and responsibilities are around money, assets and your home.

Finally, I would seriously advise you consider a move to where you would feel like you could settle and fare best as a single parent. It is not your responsibility to make it easier for him to see the children and it is absolutely his.

Very easy for me to say tapping away on a phone and not living your pain but you really don’t owe your husband anything, he certainly sounds as if he’s doing an excellent job of ruining family life for himself single handedly.

Thank you.

Paul, that's a bit simplistic. Irrespective of what "Holly owes her STBXH, she still has to act in the DC's best interest, and it is not in their best interest to make it hard for them to see their father by moving far away. There has to be a little bit of give and take on both sides. Initially this might seem impossible, but give it some time, and I'm sure you will find a way that works for the whole family.

A first step could be to get some space from each other - it sounds like you need it. Would it be possible for your STBXH to move out to a temporary place near the family home?

she still has to act in the DC's best interest, and it is not in their best interest to make it hard for them to see their father by moving far away

I see that, I do. But should OP have to strike out on her own as primary and majority caregiver don’t you agree that it’s best to do this I’m familiar surroundings and with support from family and friends (maybe) to make the transition easier?

Again, it’s not “rewarding” her H by remaining close (no no no), but giving their new family unit the best chance of success may have to be that she moves away with the DC.

Holly has several times said that her STBXh is very close to the DC. There is no reason to assume that she will be the "primary and majority caregiver". It's no longer the 1950s, fathers are parents as much as mothers. Co-parenting becomes very hard if one party moves far away. I'm not suggesting that anyone get "rewarded"? That's your words.

I am and will be their primary caregiver.

My children hardly see him during the week because he commutes - it’s how they’d see him at weekends if we moved- I couldn’t have him staying with me or there’d be no point in separating as it would be just as it is now?

@misscph1973

I never inferred it was the 1950s. I’ve taken what the OP has said up to that point (and confirmed above) that he may very well be close to the children but it sounds as if he’s putting more energy into destroying the foundations of the family unit than trying to remedy things.

If - as it sounds it is - it’s a foregone conclusion that the relationship is over then if OP needs to move to where she and the children can be loved and supported so all can thrive then as the agent of destruction the OP’s husband would just need to get on board with that.

At the risk of derailing this thread (sorry Holly) it really IS as simple as tough luck to the OPs husband. In short, you reap what you sow, and if he has to travel miles and pay £££ to spend weekends with his children then perhaps he should’ve treated their mother better.

Good points, Paul, it does sound like OP's STBXh has been treating her very badly indeed. I still think it's important to give the DC a chance to see their dad without making it difficult. My parents are divorced, and I know from personal experience that children need both parents. Even if one has been treating the other badly.

IF there is no way of mending it, i.e. you've told him plainly that the way he speaks to you etc is NOT acceptable and it's got to stop AND he hasn't changed his ways then I'd be either separating or divorcing.

Just wanted to say that I am in the same boat and offer some sisterly solidarity and...at risk of sounding mediterraneanist...there is a bit of a cultural thing with the Greeks and the Italians. I have had multiple experiences of this. Old skool. It's hell feeling like this but realising that it's NOT YOU is the first step. So much luck and bravery to you

He’s just come home tonight and tried to talk to me in a gentle voice about how we shouldn’t rush things and just be nice to each other and I shouldn’t put myself under pressure. I mentioned that we were separating and he said “ that’s what you want” as if it’s just me when he texted me “ that’s what I said all along” when I told him we should put the house in the market and he should move out this morning. I told him not to tell me what to do and that the pressure was that I couldn’t take living like this anymore and if we are to separate I need to get on with moving and applying for schools for my son- that I can’t live in limbo anymore never able to properly put roots down for my family, never knowing if I’m in his good or bad books or getting a divorce from one week to another. He then said that we needed to make sure we ageeed in all the terms so I said I wasnt prepared to discuss them at 10 pm dnd I didn’t appreciate him pretending to be gentle and caring in order to make sure things went his way! I am so fed up. He told me that we should be nice to each other and he would not tolerate me ringing him when I the sand house- he doesn’t care if there are 10 flights of stairs I should come down and speak to him. I tried to explain that with s young baby and piles of dirt laundry she scdin who gets under my feet I need to be able to ring or text him rather than leave baby to speak to him ( I can’t keave baby and elder child alone together).