divorcing him because of the way he talks to me?

[HollyHunter18]

My husband tells me to stop talking and listen, he uses the f word, shoots me nasty looks, imitates my voice, raises his, gesticulates wildly ( Mediterranean) and lectures me insisting on not being interrupted. These conversations get no where but result in me wanting to drive my head through a wall afterwards ( never have) and just feel so viscerally stressed and distressed. I still can’t get my head around divorcing him as it seems like such a destructive and cruel thing to do but I literally can’t take the “ way” he talks to me. Anyone else found that alone clinched it?

Things are only good between us when I am not asking anything of him. That is not a relationship. It is a form of slavery.

Sorry Holly I meant that my situation is similar to yrs.weve got lots of debt&there's no way I can afford to pay it all on my own.
It's a vicious circle.

Lilifer was your husband a loving father like mine or was the jack of love you describe also to the children? I tried going to a counsellor last week but they suggested couples counselling and I didn’t feel they grasped how difficult my husband can be. He also makes it really hard for me to plan things ahead of time and is always telling me to slow down which makes it really difficult.

OP sorry for late reply, just getting back to thread now. Yes my STBXH was and is loving to the kids, but also can be overly harsh, disciplinarian, and downright mean to them sometimes and i have had to step in many many times when he has reduced them to tears and this has been a real issue for me. He loves them, no doubt about that, but he has no patience for them and gets irritated easily, can be caustic at times with them and even a bit bullying. He is like this to me too of course which is part of the reason we are divorcing.

Couples counselling was an abysmal failure for us, though i am glad i tried it. The thing is he was often quite agreeable in front of the counsellor and then bloody awful to me as soon as we were out the door, and full of resentment for me for making him go to counselling in the first place, was constantly telling me how busy he was and how this "carry on" as he referred to the sessions was impacting on his work schedule and therefore badly affecting his ability to run his business.

All bollox of course as he was quite well able to take a morning or afternoon off work if he wanted to play golf or go to a business jolly, he was able to structure his time to suit himself and the counselling was meant to be an investment in us and our future.

Anyways all water under the bridge now. But yes, i am afraid that the bad tone, eye rolling, caustic acidic comments all started to appear early on in the marriage and only got worse as time went on and pressure of family life increased to the point where he became downright emotionally abusive.

Dont let this go on for years is all I am saying. I wish I had had the benefit of both mumsnet and individual counselling a long time ago, i stayed far too long and put up with way too much.

Thank you Lilifer- the thing is he’s lovely with the children only sometimes too patient and too doting and not setting boundaries to help me. It’s only me he’s “caustic, impatient and irritable “ with. He also threatens me with “ we need to talk about the future “ . He just kissed me goodbye on my temple which feels worse than no kiss at all If you see what I mean.

As he is good with the DC when you leave you will have the reassurance that I'm the time they spend with him they will be nurtured and cared for which is good.

Wishing you the strength and courage to leave, you deserve better

Holly hunter that behaviour sounds quite passive aggressive of him, being nice to the kids but not nice to you, that's insidious and undermining to you.

I think you need to maybe see a counsellor on your own, rediscover your boundaries and get tough with him, firm but kind , that this behaviour has to change or else the marriage will not survive.

I recommend you google Dr Steven Stosny who has written books and many online articles about anger and resentment issues in spouses. I found it hugely helpful and informative in my own situation .

He needs to grow up - but apart - from you and the kids.

He sounds awful. My ex was similar.
Presumably your H wasn't always like this? Can you pinpont when he started to turn against you?

I can’t pinpoint it but I think it was before we had children when I became unhappy with things about our relationship and started making demands upon him- when my rose tinted lenses cleared up. I think that was when he started being not so nice to me. I think looking back it was when I started expressing dissatisfaction.

I don’t think he’s ever really respected or valued me.

OP, this is so sad.
You can't save this marriage. Just your last remark shows this: he has never respected or valued you.
But you can save your kids from witnessing a toxic relationship.
I would think seriously about leaving. If he is a wonderful parent to them, he will continue to be without being your husband.

Oh OP, your situation is just like mine. Red flags were there before dcs, but it was the pressure of family life really when more obvious red flags insidiously crept in and the relationship became really unhealthy.
When it's gradual, it kind of becomes a new 'normal'. Like you, I've become very confused but i know I'd advise a friend to leave...just hard when it's me🤔

The thing is, Holly, he isn't lovely to the children when he:

• treats their mother like an inferior
• causes you to feel so stressed it affects your parenting (it must do)
• sets the example to them that your pov is important
• sets the example to them that women should listen to men and men should be in charge
• sets the example that imitating your voice is ok - this is a bad thing to teach them in respect of anybody, let alone their mother
• shows them by example that problem-solving is all about somebody giving way to the other person, not about give and take and hearing both sides
• gives them the impression that it is possible for somebody to be right all the time
• give them the impression that their mother is usually wrong
• sets the example that it's ok to be nasty if something isn't going your way
• sets the example that it's ok to freeze people out for as long as you feel it's necessary
• shows them by example that some people don't need to apologise. And other people need to constantly. Your children will assume for now that the first group of people is men and the second is women
• shows by example that love is not an important ingredient of a relationship. Actually not even respect.
• shows them by example that you put on a public mask of niceness, but once you get home the real person comes out
• doesn't set the boundaries which all children need to grow up emotionally healthy

These are all ways in which this man you think is a good father is damaging his children.

The great thing is, that aside from the boundary-setting, he wouldn't be able to damage the children in these ways any more if you two weren't in a relationship. But he would be able to spend time with them as he does now, and studies show that as long as the children are able to have regular contact with their non-resident parent, (and are kept out of any parental disagreements) they are relatively unaffected by separation.

There's a missing "not" before important, there, but I'm sure you got the gist.

I get the gist ChsrlotteCollinsneeLucas and it is extremely helpful in clarifying my thoughts. Thanks.

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas

Sadly he won't be as nice to them once they have their own opinions I suspect,,,

He just doesn’t get it it’s to depressing. He was being nice last night after a long day . This morning he slept late so I woke him and asked him to just take a laundry bad full of wet sheets ( baby) downstairs ( 5 Flights) before he got in shower ( also downstairs) as I have to carry baby down and get my son down who can be very tricky and my back is so sore from carrying them both and i ask my husband to take the Basket. He raises an eyebrow at me so I say. Is that a problem ? He says yes it’s a problem as he’s got to get in the shower and I’m always asking him to take baskets up and down. He says it angrily and my son is there. So I told him if he loved me he’d help me and he didn’t have to carry baskets anymore ( we can divorce). When downstairs I tried to explain that I have to get the basket down so I do t have to do it with baby eithernin tow or left alone ( can’t leave two kids alone in room) and as we have cleaners coming at 9( very fortunate yes but we have five flights of stairs and I could not cope otherwise with husband who does next to nothing, asd son and baby) I need to get laundry done and hung out before they arrived. He seemed to understand then but I know that it will be some other thing next time that he resents helping me with. I’m so depressed.

I feel like it would be easier to do it alone than have someone being different about helping me and then upsetting me. If someone’s there I assume they should help me?

Why can't he take responsibility for that sort of thing rather than "help you" to do HIS washing as well as the rest of the family's?

Because he’s commuting so he leaves the house at 7:30 and gets home at 7:45. I understand he doesn’t have time to do laundry and actually I wouldn’t want him to as he’d just let it build up to ridiculous levels but all I’m asking is for him to carry a laundry basket down or upper stairs? Apparently o ask him to do “ all sorts of shit for me?” ( said on a different day) . I’ve stopped even asking him to go the cash point on way home if I forgot to get money for cleaners as that seemed like too much bother.

My dp is bit like this too.i asked him ages ago to help me do the washing up on a noght time aftwr tea rathwr than me having to di it all the next day on my own then getting on with the other jobs.he acted like I'd asked him to cut his right arm off! Got all huffy& why should I do it I work all day! He even got bit nasty with me once when I asked him.so I don't bother anymore.
He will wash up on a weekend or when he's on hol.he will bring in washing if I'm out&fold it up but won't put it away as he 'doesn't kniw where it goes!
I duno!it's very difficult isnt it.

Yes it is babayjane67 😖

It was hard before I had a child with asd and a baby but now it feels like the straw that could break me.

Very similar situation with ex.

He was lovely to dc, horrible to me.
We separated and as soon as dc started to assert themselves he has turned on them.
I would have put money on him not to get angry with them but I suspect men like this always need a whipping boy.

My dc now say that our house is consistently happier, I am calmer and happier.When they go to his house they feel the difference so whilst its not ideal they are at least not living in it 100% of the time.
My gift to the dc is that they see a different way of living and the cycle of toxicity can be broken.