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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Did he assault me?

191 replies

JollyAwesome · 15/02/2018 19:55

Regular user but NC.

Feeling very confused and upset right now. Earlier on today, my husband and I had an argument in the car on the way to a family outing.

Our 4 yr old child spilled his packet of crisps in the back (they landed all over his car seat). I was driving and said to my husband "oh quick, can you pick those up before they fall on the floor"
He snapped back "No, not right now" (he was eating a sandwich)

So clearly flustered I said ok fine I'll do it and reached my arm back to pick up the crisps (my eyes were still on the road)

At this point he grabbed my arm really hard and said "NO, do NOT fucking do that, it's dangerous". He wouldn't let go of my arm and it really hurt, I panicked and was furiously shaking my arm saying get your hands off me, what are you doing etc? He refused to let go but I managed to shake it free and then lashed out at him in self defence (at least that's how I felt).

I immediately pulled over and got out of the car and walked off for 5 mins because I was so shocked that he'd done that to me. I could feel my arm throbbing where he'd had such a tight grip on me and I contemplated just walking home at that point but decided I couldn't ruin the day out that I'd planned.

So I returned to the car and said if you ever put your hands on me like that again I'll go to the police. We had an awful day, I couldn't even bare to look at him but tried really hard to stay upbeat for the sake of our child.

I'm so shocked that he acted so aggressively towards me. The anger in his voice, the way he spoke to me, the fact that he's physically hurt me. I have a bruise on my arm!

He said he was shocked and appalled at himself. That he was so sorry and couldn't believe he'd done something like that and that it would never happen again. This is very much out of character and I'm just so hurt that he would put his hands on me like that.

Am I overreacting? Should I just let this go? Sorry I feel like crying, I just can't believe he did that to me, even if it sounds insignificant. His manner was just so aggressive and it came totally out of the blue.

OP posts:
HarveyKietelRabbit · 16/02/2018 06:02

He shouldn't have grabbed you. Not at all.

But MN is an internet site. You ask people for opinions and a lot of people will disagree with you and a lot of people will be arses about it.

I think the idea that some responses 'can be dangerous and stop people getting the help they need' is a dangerous idea in itself.

MN is a parenting chat site. It isn't an advice service or a helpline. You can get some great advice here but not always and the idea that this is a 'safe place' for anyone to come and be helped in some way isn't the case.

It's a massive anonymous internet chat site with trolls aplenty (as most massive sites are) and MN can't control what people post unless it breaks talk guidelines.

Sleephead1 · 16/02/2018 06:27

op yes you did something dangerous and I sort of get it if he grabbed your arm and shoved it to the towards the steering wheel but he didn't he actually made it more dangerous by hurting you and making you panic as you where flapping your arm about and trying to free and probably not 100% concentrating on driving at that point. So his reaction was much worse than your initial mistake. your child was in the car with you and has seen shouting, him twisting your arm , you lashing out and then you leaving the car and then as you say had a terrible atmosphere in day out. it must have been very scary for them have you both acknowledged that ? it wasn't your fault he over reActed like he did at all he needs to address that and what is he going to do about the fact that he really scared his wife and child and made a dangerous situation much worse .

namechange2222 · 16/02/2018 06:28

He put his hands on you against your will, that's assault and doesn't sound as if it was justified for safety reasons imo.
He did it in anger and certainly didn't make the situation any more safe by what he did
I've done what you did, reached back while keeping my eyes up front and on the road, it's not ideal, nor safe but it seems as if no one on MN has ever done the same.
Anyway, it doesn't really matter what led up to it, his grabbing and keeping hold of your arm was done in 'punishment' NOT to stop you for reaching back. He was pissed off that you'd called him out on his greedy behaviour

AnotherOriginalUsername · 16/02/2018 07:29

Regardless of the events leading up to it, if you need to ask whether your partner assaulted you, you have problems in your relationship that need addressing. My husband could grab my arm and I'd never in a million years consider it assault because I know my husband and I know he'd never intentionally hurt me (incidentally he does grab me when we're messing around, not hard, but I get bruises a few days later). I'd everyone said yes, he has assaulted you, what would you do then? I feel like this is a very random question to ask out of the blue in a relationship where there's supposedly no previous incidents. Has it happened before, or are you looking for ammunition for some reason? Don't forget, in the scenario you gave us, it sounds like you assaulted him too.

CherryMaDeary · 16/02/2018 07:43

So glad to see some sensible posters responded to you, OP!

It's a shame when the first few posts are taken up by fuckwits!

He had NO right to grab and hold your arm for that long. It sounds like he has latent tendencies to be aggrssive to you and this was an opportunity.

What steps is he going to take to address his anger? If he won't take action, do you still want to be with him?

Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 09:06

a woman (passenger) got punched in the face by her dp (driving). She also got a beating on Mumsnet, for the very very minor misdemeanor which was her part in the event.*

That is awful. I really don't think MN is the right place for me to reach out for help. There have been some great posters who have given me a lot of comfort and for that I am grateful.

However, the harsh and downright rudeness of others has left me feeling that his actions were truly warranted.

There have even been several people who have given me a hard time for suggesting that I deserved it! As if I'm attention seeking or pitying myself, it's just unbelievable!

I'm also mortified and really upset that our child had to witness that yesterday. I am ashamed and feel so sorry for him. He did not deserve that.

I think his anger is being fuelled by tiredness. He has a very demanding job and works very long hours. I'm not sure what can be done about that but he does need to address it. He can be calm and placid (which I would say is his natural personality) and then he can suddenly lose it. I've noticed a big change over the past 6 months. I even said to him a month or so ago that I thought he seemed a lot angrier these days. He has a tendency to bottle everything up and so he needs to address that. Repressing feelings/emotions has been a big problem for us.

OP posts:
Sleephead1 · 16/02/2018 09:14

op I would tell him he really frightened you and your child, neither of you deserved that and you are disgusted by what happened and what is he going to do to address this I would want him to go to the doctors to get help as being stressed isn't a excuse but it sounds like he needs to address the fact he has become much angrier recently and what is causing this unhappiness, work stress? good luck x

bridgetbishop · 16/02/2018 09:15

JollyAwesome I'm so sorry you've had the response you've had. There are some hard of thinking people on this website at the moment.

Yes it was probably a bad idea to reach for crisps while driving BUT his reaction was totally disproportionate.

His actions were MUCH more dangerous than yours. Anyone who is ignoring thst has their own agenda.

He did assault you.

I haven't read all the pages so apologies if this has been discussed but have you had / considered relationship counselling?

Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 09:17

You were probably reaching back to prevent upset and tears from a child who is just about to lose his treat, as opposed to cleaning up mess

Thank you User. Yes this is how I felt at the time. I briefly looked back, saw the crisps were on his lap - thought to myself "oh if he could just quickly grab them, it would save them, rather than them going all over the floor and child being upset" He then refused (nastily) so I reached back to grab them myself.

I hardly turned around with a portable hoover, whilst putting my rubber gloves on and getting the disinfectant out of the glove box.....

Yes I was still wrong for doing what I did, but being told repeatedly that I could have killed my family, I'm such a stupid woman, my husband was right to do what he did etc is just ridiculous.

FWIW at the time, we were driving on a straight, wide, 40mph country road with no traffic coming in either direction. At no time, other than briefly turning around did I take my eyes off the road.

OP posts:
Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 09:25

We have discussed relationship counselling in the past, but due to his erratic working hours we could never commit to the same time every week so we couldn't go to Relate.

Every time things come to a head, we say that we need to go to counselling but then things calm down, life gets in the way (I work too and am also really busy with our child) and it's put on the back burner.

I desperately want to believe he is a good man. Yes he has some issues, as we all do. But underneath that he is a very decent person. I've known him for so long, he's just not a naturally aggressive person. But he also has big issues with admitting what he would perceive as a 'weakness' in himself and this is what we have struggled with

OP posts:
WellDoneTiger · 16/02/2018 09:32

We all take a hand off the wheel driving sometimes. Fiddling with the radio, or the heating, satnav etc. Ideally we would sort it all out before we set offHmm
What your husband did, however is completely unacceptable. No amount of tiredness or stress is an excuse for grabbing a part of you while you are driving. This in itself is far more likely to shock you and cause an accident.
Please keep an eye on his temper. His temper belongs to him and if he ever says it's your fault, he is wrong. Keep a diary, or send emails to yourself.

Please be aware of his behaviour. Lots of people have demanding jobs and work long hours without losing their tempers. You absolutely cannot take responsibility for the behaviour of someone else. Tried and tested!

OtterPearl · 16/02/2018 09:33

He needs counseling solo as he's the one with the issue. But, the problem you'll have is that he has to decide that for himself. You can't get him to go and engage if he doesn't want to.

It sounds like he recognises he has an issue. Perhaps you could sow the seed that he gets help to stop it happening again and that whilst it may be a scary thought it's best for you and your child he does this.

As for people responding by telling you it was your fault is quite common as people don't want to think someone can be aggressive for no reason. They want to see it as give and take. But in light of what you've said about his behaviour over the years is clear he is dealing with some anger which he admits to and needs to sort out.

Messagefromyoshimi · 16/02/2018 09:38

Jolly I'm sorry this wasn't helpful. Sometimes threads just go wrong. But in any case seeing the problem and dealing with it in real life is what's ultimately needed.

I hope you don't feel you need to keep explaining what happened in the car. Posters can either agree or not about how risky it was. It's not fair on you to feel that is the only issue.

He said he was shocked and appalled at himself. That he was so sorry and couldn't believe he'd done something like that and that it would never happen again.
It sounds like he has shocked himself by how out of control he was feeling. How can he know it won't happen again? I don't think the answer can be dependent on your actions.

Personally I would be careful about relationship counselling. I'm not sure his anger is a relationship issue. Or at least go into it being alert to which issues you can both work on but be sure you are not accepting responsibility for triggering an agressive reaction.

Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 09:44

That's exactly what I said to him, how can you be so sure it won't happen again? He just said, because I know I won't. Not really good enough is it?

He has been to counselling before, but stopped because he didn't feel he was getting anything out of it anymore.

For all his faults, he will hold his hands up when he's done wrong. He volunteered to go to counselling last time around but now I see we are slipping back again.

OP posts:
Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 09:47

Sorry I should say, he will admit when he's done wrong but there can often be a fight to get to that point. He has form for justifying and defending his actions before relenting.

Although yesterday he did admit very quickly that he was wrong and shouldn't have done that (but not before telling me it was the first time Hmm)

OP posts:
OtterPearl · 16/02/2018 10:25

Counselling is hard and is a bit like a rollercoaster feeling at some times it really works and others it doesn't. But if he had slipped back and stopped putting what he learnt into practice he probably needs a refresher to remind him of what he needs to do when he starts to feel x y or z.

OtterPearl · 16/02/2018 10:26

So you could talk to him about it being a refresher of what he learnt last time

WellDoneTiger · 16/02/2018 10:40

Self defence is an ugly trait. It's basically a way of putting you down and making you shut up. My husband does it in spades to any perceived insult. It will probably go with other behaviours, and quite likely in a cycle. Please take care.

MNHQ
LornaMumsnet · 16/02/2018 10:46

Hi folks,

We're popping on to make a small plea.

Can we please remember that the OP is a person asking for support and advice?

We do not allow personal attacks or posts designed to belittle someone, whether you agree with something or not - it's simply not on, not supportive and not what Mumsnet is about.

We'll be going through this thread now but if we've missed anything, please do report to us using the report button.

LemonysSnicket · 16/02/2018 14:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WildWindsBlowing · 16/02/2018 14:58

He has a very demanding job and works very long hours.
Do you think has been lacking sleep over a long time? Mood disorders and unbalanced sudden rage can be a result of this. Something was wrong and too violent about his reaction.

Original poster
JollyAwesome · 16/02/2018 16:27

Yes I think he's been pushing himself, hard, over a long period of time. Unfortunately it's just the nature of his job, so I'm not sure what he could realistically change. I guess he could go to bed earlier when he comes home, but he doesn't want to. Or wants me to go with him, but I don't want to go to bed at 9/10pm.

OP posts:
Offred · 16/02/2018 16:43

IMO what you did was choose to drive dangerously in order to make a point to him re him not picking up the crisps. He escalated it by grabbing your arm and then you escalated it further by lashing out all while you were driving.

I see from your further posts that this is not at all ‘out of character’ behaviour from him and that he is controlling and has already been physically abusive before.

Really if this relationship is so toxic that it can result in you making such dangerous choices then you need to end it.

Think about how frightened your dc must have been watching this... horrific...

Viviennemary · 16/02/2018 16:45

The two incidents need to be separated. You are a dangerous driver. Your husband is a bully. Neither is acceptable.

Offred · 16/02/2018 16:47

And no, this is not about his temper and counselling for him won’t work.

It is about his attitude to women and your response to it is somewhat normal - trying to fight to assert your autonomy, it’s just that it is a really unhealthy environment in which to raise children and this incident was particularly dangerous.

3 out of 4 men who use physical violence use it repeatedly. He is already a repeat offender so he is not the 1 out of 4 who never do it again.