How do you manage finances as a couple?

[Cici81]

I'm 36, my dp 35 and we've been together around 18 months, living together about a year. We've talked about our future and we've agreed we will get married and are TTC atm on mutual agreement.

After all our outgoings he ends up with £500 a month more than me and I am becoming increasingly resentful. I end up broke towards the end of the month while he is able to buy items for his hobby at between £100-£400 without any discussion with me. He does buy me the odd small thing occasionally and while I appreciate it I feel like they are handouts when we should be a partnership.

Today I suggested that our joint incomes should be pooled together. From that, we take out all joint outgoings (Inc his child support for his dd), make joint savings and split the reminder 50/50 to spend as we wish. I feel this is the only fair option and would absolutely feel the same if I earned more than him.

He said to me he doesn't feel this is fair as there is no incentive for him to go for promotion in September as he wouldn't see the benefit of the extra money. He also asked me how ambitious I am and whether I would ever go for a higher paid job. He enquired as to whether he would keep any money he got if he decided to do overtime.

Now, I don't know what to think. I am tied into a mortgage with my xp that I'm in the process of getting out of. If there was any profit from that (which I think there will be) it would of course go into the joint savings. He has a £20k credit card debt that he is hoping will just go away but I've said that if they came looking for the money we would sort it out together under this new arrangement. He also defaulted on a mortgage several years ago but says that is due to drop off.

Please tell me if IABU. I just think that as a couple we should be working on things together. I don't feel one person should be able to buy themselves extravagant purchases while the other person is broke. Any advice even if critical would be appreciated.

We have everything going into and out of one account.

We don’t monitor each other’s spending.

OP you seem to be almost willfully ignoring how this man's debt and attitude toward debt might impact on you, and your children in the future.... Not only will you be the only source of credit, aren't you worried (in the instance you break up) that he will view the Child maintenance as an inconvenient debt that he will simply wait out until it "drop off"

Be honest, he isn't very nice to you now, while you're in a "committed, happy relationship" let alone if you split up and are at odds with each other...

WTF is he spending up to £400 a month on fripperies when he has a £20K millstone round his neck?

He sounds like a feckless arse, OP and if you're already feeling like his attitude is a dealbreaker listen to your gut.

I have been with my partner 5 years and our finances are completely separate but this works for us and we don't have children or plan to together. In your case I would get out as his attitude is unreasonable if you stay together I would not be having a child with him or if you do make sure you can comfortably support yourself and child because it doesn't look like he would

Op, I am an ex Bank Manager, and I worked for 20 years in debt collection and Mortgage debt collection.

I don't know if debts 'drop off' after so many years as I have never been in that situation

NO. Of course debts don't "drop off". The only thing I can think of here, is that he is Bankrupt, or he took out an IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) previously. These are 2 types of insolvency, whereupon all Creditors agree to a repayment plan, whereupon the debtor agrees to pay so many pence in the Pound, over a 3 year period and at the end of the 3 years, any remaining debt is written off. Then, after 6 years the debtors name is taken off the Insolvency Register and he/she can start again with a clean slate. If he was Insolvent, I'd be amazed that he had £500pm spare, as the debtor is usually squeezed for every spare penny.

However, if he had such an Insolvency arrangement, the Credit Card Company would NOT be writing to him (not allowed), all correspondence would be from the Insolvency Agency that handled his Bankruptcy or IVA. A firm like KPMG, for instance. Have you seen the correspondence that goes to his Mums?

If the letters are coming direct from the Credit Card Co, then he has no such arrangement and if he ignores their letters, they will obtain a County Court Judgment against him, and once they have that, they will decide which Post Judgment Remedy to use, in order to extract money from him, to settle the outstanding debt. This could be attaching his earnings, levying his car, or obtaining a Second Charge on his mortgaged house.

The only way he could halt this, is to speak with them. They would most likely agree to freeze the interest and agree a manageable payment plan with him (they will want to see a detailed Income & Expenditure plan).

With regards to the Mortgage, if this is in arrears, the Bank will eventually evict the occupiers of the property and sell it, to recoup what's owed. The Bank will have a LEGAL CHARGE on the property, which means the property belongs to them. He is likely to lose a lot of money when this happens, as sadly the Bank will sell the house for less than it's worth, if it means their debt is satisfied. This is why Evicted properties are always such a bargain. This WILL happen, albeit it might take a year or two. It's a set process, and Mortgages are NEVER written off. Because the house is a brick and mortar ASSET and the Bank WILL CERTAINLY sell this, to recover what they can. Sorry for the shouting in Capitals, but I cannot stress enough that this is the route that the Bank will go down. I did this for years and I do know what I am talking about!

I wouldn't want joint finances with someone with so much debt (and who is burying his head in the sand about it). I'd just end up liable for his current debt and possibly any future debts he might incur

That's nonsense. The Op cannot ever be held responsible for her Partners debt, because her name isn't on the Credit Card or Mortgage. The Op's Partner is liable, as is any other named person on the debt, OR..... any Guarantors/Third Party Sureties. That said, I wouldn't want a joint account with him anyway.

Also, if they only have his Mum's address and she won't reveal where he now lives, they will employ Tracing Agents to find him. It's very easily done.

I keep thinking of more....

If the CC company do get a Second Charge on his house, they can push the Bank who granted his mortgage, to start the Eviction and sale process. The Bank would get re-paid first (they have the First Charge), and the remaining money would go to the CC company. This means that with 2 separate finance institutions (CC company and Bank) benefitting from sale of the property, there is more impetus to get it sold.

Extremely informative @Huskylover1. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply in detail.

I should have been clearer on this but the house he defaulted on was sold by the bank around 5 years ago as he didn't even attempt to come to an arrangement with them about the arrears and buried his head in the sand. As far as I know, he is uncertain how much it sold for and how much now remains on the mortgage. The house was in about £50k of negative equity though so I'm sure it's a sizeable debt.

His XP sounds as if she is as bad about money matters as he is. She moved out of the house to go to her mum's leaving him to cover the full mortgage on his own which is why he defaulted on it.

All in one pot, an account for bills and then a separate joint account for everything debit card, food shopping, fuel, treats etc. We're a team so do money like it

So he owes £20k on a credit card and an unspecified amount to the bank for a mortgage default?

What a prince. You may as well take all the money you have and burn it if you're going to stay in a relationship with him.

18 months is not long enough to get to know someone enough to have a kid with them. You're lucky he's showing his real priorities now before you're pregnant.

He's a selfish, irresponsible idiot. If you want a kid, get a sperm donor, because this man will just drag you down.

We share everything and always have. DH used to be the higher earner and now it's me. But money has always been ours with a joint account.

OP - you are wilfully ignoring all the sensible questions being asked about the situation and answering only the ones which you can phrase in a way which makes your partner sound reasonable (to you).

That leads me to believe you aren't keen on real solutions, you're sticking your head in the sand too.

You're in a proper mess with this man.

hi all

The voice of experience here LOL.

Suggestion - open a joint account and pay into it the same PERCENTAGE of your earnings e.g. at 50%, person 1 makes £20k a year and pays in £10k, person B makes £10k a year and pays in £5k.

Therefore the total income to pay the basic bills (agree a list of what's included in this) and any other family projects is £15k per year.

Any other income that either of you have is yours alone and any spending doesn't have to be defended or justified to anyone.

This will remove personal criticism about 'wasting money' and replace it with a chat that goes "I think we should both increase our contributions to the joint account because"...

Not a perfect solution but the least worst option in my experience.

Also work out a deal that stipulates that whilst one partner is pregnant or looking after a baby the other partner temporarily makes up the shortfall in their usual contributions as far as possible. Put a timescale on this, say a year per child. That way both partners are contributing financially in equal measure to having a family - she by giving up her earning power temporarily, he by making up the difference rather than (financially speaking) continuing to act as a single person.

Romantic? Maybe not. Necessary? Yes. Fair to both partners? Absolutely.

Good luck!

I think the thread has moved on from sharing finances in a relationship to whether she should be in a relationship at all.

If I remember rightly It take 12 years for a mortgage debt ( that's for example one that's been sold and the shortfall is what is left it's normally 50 /50 between each owner but they will pursue the one that is more willing and able to pay

That's providing no payments of even £1 has been made in the meantime because that just start the 12 years ticking again
Which is why they are quite happy to accept really ridiculous low repayments on any sort of debt as each payment resets the time limit to pursue it from

OP - you are wilfully ignoring all the sensible questions being asked about the situation and answering only the ones which you can phrase in a way which makes your partner sound reasonable (to you)

Well it’s her life and if she wants to be entwined with a financial bellend that’s up to her. Most of us have learned hard lessons in our time because of love blinkers.

Bloody hell.
And you accuse him of sticking his head in th sand?

Why don't you know how much he owes, why haven't you insisted on that before getting entangled with him? You could be pregnant any day to a man who owes tens of thousands.

Negative equity of £50K
Probably more before the bank will have sold quickly, not waiting for the right buyer who'll pay more.
Plus the amount of mortgage arrears.
Plus charges.
Plus interest on the whole lot ever since.
Plus this £20K credit card that he's ignoring.

This man could easily owe the best part of ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND POUNDS.

And you're trying to get pregnant with him without even knowing how much?

Grow up.

As Merryoldgoat says
you aren't keen on real solutions, you're sticking your head in the sand too.

I would add that you don't like the solutions because they mainly involve leaving dp and as you say you are ttc. How much had this this to do with you being 36?

I've read the thread and I think it's reasonable to say that you have already received the full wisdom of mumsnet, whether you choose to benefit from it is another matter of course.

If you do ignore advice them I suppose it stops some other mug from having him as their partner until you do finally ltb.

Suggestion - open a joint account and pay into it the same PERCENTAGE of your earnings e.g. at 50%, person 1 makes £20k a year and pays in £10k, person B makes £10k a year and pays in £5k

How is that fair to both partners?

Person A would have £10k to spend when Person B would have only £5k to spend 😕

I can’t understand how anyone who professes to love their partner and considers them their equal would accept the valuation and employer puts on each of them as being the representive as to the value they are in a relationship.

I earned neat 6 times more than my now DH when we got together. There’s no way on earth I’d ever have felt comfortable having money washing around to afford luxuries whilst he had none left over and was barely getting by. I don’t see how this is acceptable?

Me and DP and DS4 here. We earn similar amounts, and both put 1k into the joint account every month. That covers all bills, food, and anything DS might need.

Anything leftover is our own in our own accounts to spend or save as we like.

I know a lot of people have one family pot but I like to have my own independence financially.

Wow just wow...you are trying to get pregnant with a man and you have no idea how much money he owes? Why? Why would you do that? You could be inflicting a shit life on any children you produce with this guy. He could owe £100,000! You have no idea. This guy is not going to take care of you and a family. He can’t even take care of himself!

Thanks @Joysmum. Do you think me suggesting we have equal money to spend on ourselves every month is fair? I'm beginning to wonder if I'm being a bitch and if he deserves to reap the rewards of his higher earnings which are about 25% more than mine.

To those saying ltb, I understand where you're coming from but (and I know it's a cliché) I love him and we get on really well together. He sees his dd every weekend and has never tried to shirk his responsibilities re Child Support.

Many wise posters have commented on the major issues of his (1) debt, and (2) irresponsible attitude towards that debt. I won't try to add to that.

His attitude to joint money and money he earns is also a worrying sign. DH earns many times my salary, which is now PT but has always been lower. When we dated we split 50/50, when we rented a flat together he put in a higher proportion to the joint account, and when we married and had children together money earned became family money. We both have savings accounts in our own names but DH pays the bulk of the money that goes into the joint pot. I've gone PT as two high pressure careers were impossible to manage with family life. He doesn't believe I should be penalised for spending more time managing the house and children.

This attitude of no point going for a promotion if he doesn't get all the benefit is just so weird. Surely it's for a better life for the whole family.