Having doubts about my relationship - can you help talk me through it?

[ChooChooLaverne]

I just need to put my thoughts down as my head is in a spin and I'm not sure if it's me or DP. I'm sorry but it's quite long.

I met DP 5 years ago and we're meant to be getting married in the summer. He's not speaking to me today. Again. I have told him that I don't like it when he sulks, I hate going to sleep on an argument and like to try and talk to resolve any problems - even if we can't agree - I don't see why we can't be kind to each other.

This time he's sulking because he asked me if I knew how to use the heater last night when I was about to start cooking and I said 'I know' but he didn't listen and carried on telling me how it worked (it's my heater by the way). Now admittedly I don't understand the inner workings of the heater (and nor do I care) but I do know that it has a dial to turn the temperature up and down which is why I again said 'I know'. He got angry with me as he didn't think I was listening to his explanation and he didn't like me saying 'I know' more than once when I obviously didn't know. (Sorry, I do know how tedious this is)

I tried to get him to lighten up and gave him a hug and apologised for interrupting him but I said I didn't think it was important enough to have an argument over and could we just make up and move on. He said it was important to him and went off and lay on our bed. I was trying to make dinner at this point and was about to go and say goodnight to my DS so I left him to it and hoped he'd calm down and we could carry on with our evening.

I tried chatting normally when we had dinner but he wouldn't look at me and gave me monosyllabic responses when I said anything so we spent the rest of the meal like a pair of Carmelite nuns. He went to bed early and when I went to bed later he didn't speak to me, kiss me goodnight or put his arm round me - like he does every night. He got up early for work this morning, didn't kiss me when he got up - like he does every morning - and came and said goodbye in a half-hearted voice before he left.

I haven't heard from him today and I normally get a couple of texts from his throughout the day.

I am normally the one to apologise and cajole/talk to him until he comes out of a sulk but I don't have the oomph to bother today and I haven't sent him a message either.

I feel like I seem to upset him without meaning to and I seem to find myself apologising a lot. I get the impression he sees himself as a victim but I really don't believe I'm to blame for everything. He can take offence over the slightest thing but can sometimes talk to me in a fairly aggressive tone of voice and doesn't seem to understand why I would find that upsetting.

However, most of the time he is absolutely lovely to me and very thoughtful. He has been very patient in developing a relationship with my DS who was very jealous of our relationship in the early days. But he does also seem to take offence at my DS's behaviour sometimes as though if he doesn't behave impeccably it's a personal slight to him.

When things are good between us I feel like we have a great relationship but today it's like all I can remember are the times that he's not spoken to me or has spoken to me in an unpleasant way and I'm not sure what to do. Ironically, there are a couple of wedding related things that I'm meant to be sorting out today but at the moment the thought of spending the rest of my life being given the cold shoulder from time to time by my husband fills me with dread.

Thank you if you've read this far. Is there anything I can do to resolve things? I'd appreciate any thoughts.

You don’t have anything to resolve. He needs to grow up and stop thinking of himself as the centre of the world.

It doesn’t sound as if that is likely to happen as he seems to feel genuinely aggrieved by you finding his unacceptable behaviour unacceptable!

I think really you just need to make a choice about whether you want to marry him as he is or whether you don’t.

It is unlikely he will change since he feels he is fine just the way he is.

I wouldn't marry him. Sounds exhausting.

Why is he trying to mansplain your heater to you at all BTW? And when you were busy too?

It sounds like the behaviour of a toddler ‘I want you to pay attention to me!’ followed by sulking when he doesn’t get what he wants.

Yabu to not have shoved the heater up his arse.
Don't marry a man who treats you like an imbecile and acts like a stroppy teenager.

Google 'stonewalling abuse'
It's a horrible thing to do to someone you are supposed to love.
And for the love of god, don't marry him.
If the wedding is already booked cancel or postpone.
You cannot live your life like this.
Please don't apologise any more for HIS abusive controlling behaviour!

Marry him? I wouldn't want to even be in the same room as him!

You gloss over the way he talks to you, by the way. He sounds really horrible when he does that.

I would never marry a sulker, though. I think people who sulk learn it from a very young child and never, ever stop doing it, no matter how old they get.

(This thread is probably going to be ‘does he have ASD?’ bingo BTW.... but IMO I wouldn’t want to live with someone like this ASD or not, and if they didn’t think it was a problem but it was making me miserable the right thing to do would be to split up IMO)

Would he be open to counselling? But agree that you might want to rethink the wedding or you'll be stuck with a lifetime of sulkypants for a hubby.

It's so frustrating when you want to sit down calmly and explain how it makes you feel, but you can't because they then take offence and sulk even more... could you explain this in an email or a letter? Or would he just flounce off (sorry for questions but you know him and I don't)?

It does sound exhausting. But only you know if you really want to marry him.

You see, reading your responses I feel like I might have misrepresented him as he does make me feel genuinely as though it's my fault. And I do think he genuinely does feel aggrieved.

I'm not even sure why he was explaining the heater to me.

You're right. It is exhausting, it really is.

No you can't change him.

Its his choice to act as he does and its immature and emotionally stunted..holding grudges is not healthy and can be soul destroying to the recipient.

What is the situation re housing and how equal are finances?

I would not be getting married to him without this being dealt with.Its very common for his behaviour to ramp up once you are actually married..definitely happened in my situation.

Has he had long relationships before?

If he gets irrationally angry and sulky over small "slights" you are in danger of walking on eggshells.You have a sense of dread and I really think you should listen to that.

I feel like I might have misrepresented him as he does make me feel genuinely as though it's my fault.

Eh? How is it your fault that he asked you a question while you were busy but didn’t like the answer, then patronisingly treated you like an idiot, then sulked like a big baby whilst eating the food you cooked and continued sulking all evening, through the night and into the morning? WHO COULD EVEN BE ARSED TO GET THAT UPSET ABOUT A FECKING HEATER?!

No you cannot do anything to resolve things. This is who he is and sulking like he has shown you is really another form of emotional abuse. Abusive men can be nice sometimes; the nice/nasty cycle associated with abuse is however a continuous one.

I would not marry him under any circumstances, infact this relationship really is now at an end because of this towards you. The red flags are also there re he and your son as well, he will really be a crap example of a stepfather to him if you were frankly fool enough to marry this individual.

Sounds like my DH used to be - actually, reading this made me feel a bit sick. You must be on edge a lot of the time, not knowing how he is going to react. And I used to end up apologising even though 9 times out of 10 it was DH who caused the argument. I can’t believe it was still going on the next day! Don’t think I would marry him unless you can sit him down & discuss the effect his behaviour has on you.

Choochoo

What are his parents like; my guess is that they are scarily similar to him.

Do not enter into joint counselling with him; its never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Also such men do not readily go to counselling in any case because they honestly think they have done nothing wrong.

Please don't marry him and subject your son to this behaviour any longer. It could really end up ruining his childhood.

Look up covert npd - super sensitive to perceived slights, withdrawing as punishment, blaming you, seeing his feelings as facts and needing to be right.

My ex went to counsellibg for over a year...did not help at all, in fact made his aggression worse.

At first he was like this 10% of the time but over years it grew to 90% of the time.It was awful as eventually everything was perceived as criticism no matter how carefully I tried to speak.

My counsellor sums it up "its his stuff to deal with". Take no responsibility for his reactions which are irratiomal and unreasonable.

I am sorry there is no silver bullet, we had an otherwise good life but it was impossible to have a normal homelife due to his emotional reactions to normal stuff.
It sucks joy out of you after a while.

He definitely doesn't have ASD.

You're right in that I think this comes from growing up with it as his mother is a champion sulker. But he thinks she is unreasonable to take offence in the way she does. So it's not like he's unaware of it.

I did find it bizarre when I saw him lying on the bed last night as though he'd had an attack of the vapours. I wouldn't be able to flounce off and lie about feeling sorry for myself because I am a grown up. And I'd feel silly.

The wedding is booked but that's not the end of the world if we had to cancel it. I really would like to work things out with him but I'm not sure he's able or rather willing to change. I don't think he thinks there's anything wrong in what he's doing.

It is horrible when he talks to me aggressively. He doesn't say anything horrible about me exactly but I do feel like he criticises the way I do things. And he does seem to think he's right in doing so.

It's reassuring to hear your thoughts and realise I'm not going mad and imagining it all but I was kind of hoping that I'd get lots of responses on how to sort things out.

Just because he genuinely feels aggrieved doesn’t mean it is reasonable for him to feel aggrieved.

Basically what you are locked in is a vicious cycle because he is fundamentally irrational and unreasonable and emotionally unstable and you are a compassionate, emotionally competent person who wants to take his feelings seriously if he is really upset.

That's why I asked you about his parents; we learn about relationships first and foremost from them. Not at all surprised to see that his mother is a champ sulker; her son is the self same. The rotten apple that is he did not fall far from the rotten tree that is his own family of origin. His mother's behaviours are yours and your son's lives going forward too.

Do not marry him; call the whole thing off now along with this relationship. Its really over because of his behaviours towards you and in turn your son.

Sorry, cross-posted with lots of you.

Do you really think this is abuse? See, I have had abusive relationships before but they were so obviously so that I thought this was just a minor issue in comparison. I've had counselling too and thought I was able to spot abuse! I took things really slowly with him, particularly with regard to introducing him to DS.

I am trying to listen to that inner voice though and that feeling of dread. He was so lovely to me for such a long time before the first time he spoke in an unpleasant way to me.

And yes, I really don't like the thought of DS ever walking on eggshells because of him.

Housing and finances are not a problem - he has his own house and I'm renting mine. He's always been very generous with money.

He has had long relationships before. According to him his longest one (about 7 years) ended because they just stopped being friends. I can imagine why if he was the same way with her.

I do feel on edge a lot of the time but I thought that was my fault. Gah.

I will look up covert NPD. Thank you all so much for your responses.

And yes, the fact that the latest sulk was over a fecking heater has been a bit of an eye opener I think!

The natural Mumsnet reaction to this sort of thing is always to cry abuse & tell you to leave, but this sounds like there could be a more complex situation or backstory here. At face value his behaviour - particularly refusing to talk & engage properly in resolution - is crappy, & you shouldn't have to constantly apologise or placate him. Could this particular situation be the icing on the cake of a situation that's been rumbling in his head for some time, perhaps? My DH has a real complex about feeling that people don't listen to him so has at times really over-reacted to times when he's felt I wasn't listening to him. He also has a tendency to sulk and avoid conflict, but I spelled out very clearly from an early stage that I would rather have a difficult discussion or row in the moment than to allow resentment to simmer & build up. And even if we end up staying up late having a row, we never ever go to bed in a mood with each other without talking it out. It might be worth sitting him down and talking that sort of thing through with him? It might be painful and scary, but you could almost talk him through exactly what you've said in your post and be honest about what you expect - and what you will and won't tolerate - from your marriage. I know that after some tough conversations in the early days of our marriage, DH & I deal with this stuff & understand each other much better now.
Also, is there anyone who knows both of you well & who you trust who you can talk this through to get an outside perspective from someone who understands your relationship & knows you both? There are also short marriage preparation courses run in lots of charities or churches that you can do to help you talk through your expectations and boundaries etc before you get married - or decide not to.
Wishing you all the best for making the right decision OP

I was together with someone for 21 years who is a sulker, its soul destroying. I left him in Feb, its so nice not having to watch what I say day to day, to be on the back end of his moods.

Think carefully before you marry, and observe your relationship. Look at the way he treats generally. For me, going forward, any man that shows moods and cannot snap out of them is a massive red flag!

Your relationship seems to be set around you accommodating his feelings all the time, his feelings being really irrational a lot of the time, his behaviour being childish and him never admitting where he has got things wrong but just expecting you to make it up to him whenever he is upset about anything (no matter how unreasonable).

A healthy relationship needs both people to try to be reasonable and responsible, both people to try to resolve things and both to admit fault and take responsibility when they have erred.

What you describe is more like the relationship between a parent and a 2 year old.

Him lying on the bed as if he has had an attack of the vapours because you weren’t sufficiently pleased at him mansplaining your own fecking heater to you while you were cooking his dinner for him... it’s so ludicrous that it sounds funny from outside but it’s actually impossible to actually live with someone like that.

Care for the family are a good charity who have lots of material on marriage preparation & run courses www.careforthefamily.org.uk/family-life/marriage-support/preparing-for-marriage

He does take my feelings into account a lot of the time though - just not about this. I do wonder whether me always needing to make everything ok is my issue.

I'm not going to try and do it this time though.

I suspect the talk about the heater might have actually been to fabricate a reason to have a sulk at me if that makes sense. Felt like it was out of the blue.