Having doubts about my relationship - can you help talk me through it?

[ChooChooLaverne]

I just need to put my thoughts down as my head is in a spin and I'm not sure if it's me or DP. I'm sorry but it's quite long.

I met DP 5 years ago and we're meant to be getting married in the summer. He's not speaking to me today. Again. I have told him that I don't like it when he sulks, I hate going to sleep on an argument and like to try and talk to resolve any problems - even if we can't agree - I don't see why we can't be kind to each other.

This time he's sulking because he asked me if I knew how to use the heater last night when I was about to start cooking and I said 'I know' but he didn't listen and carried on telling me how it worked (it's my heater by the way). Now admittedly I don't understand the inner workings of the heater (and nor do I care) but I do know that it has a dial to turn the temperature up and down which is why I again said 'I know'. He got angry with me as he didn't think I was listening to his explanation and he didn't like me saying 'I know' more than once when I obviously didn't know. (Sorry, I do know how tedious this is)

I tried to get him to lighten up and gave him a hug and apologised for interrupting him but I said I didn't think it was important enough to have an argument over and could we just make up and move on. He said it was important to him and went off and lay on our bed. I was trying to make dinner at this point and was about to go and say goodnight to my DS so I left him to it and hoped he'd calm down and we could carry on with our evening.

I tried chatting normally when we had dinner but he wouldn't look at me and gave me monosyllabic responses when I said anything so we spent the rest of the meal like a pair of Carmelite nuns. He went to bed early and when I went to bed later he didn't speak to me, kiss me goodnight or put his arm round me - like he does every night. He got up early for work this morning, didn't kiss me when he got up - like he does every morning - and came and said goodbye in a half-hearted voice before he left.

I haven't heard from him today and I normally get a couple of texts from his throughout the day.

I am normally the one to apologise and cajole/talk to him until he comes out of a sulk but I don't have the oomph to bother today and I haven't sent him a message either.

I feel like I seem to upset him without meaning to and I seem to find myself apologising a lot. I get the impression he sees himself as a victim but I really don't believe I'm to blame for everything. He can take offence over the slightest thing but can sometimes talk to me in a fairly aggressive tone of voice and doesn't seem to understand why I would find that upsetting.

However, most of the time he is absolutely lovely to me and very thoughtful. He has been very patient in developing a relationship with my DS who was very jealous of our relationship in the early days. But he does also seem to take offence at my DS's behaviour sometimes as though if he doesn't behave impeccably it's a personal slight to him.

When things are good between us I feel like we have a great relationship but today it's like all I can remember are the times that he's not spoken to me or has spoken to me in an unpleasant way and I'm not sure what to do. Ironically, there are a couple of wedding related things that I'm meant to be sorting out today but at the moment the thought of spending the rest of my life being given the cold shoulder from time to time by my husband fills me with dread.

Thank you if you've read this far. Is there anything I can do to resolve things? I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Just to pick up this point:

She has a slightly different perspective to you as she knows DP and sees him as someone who perhaps just goes into himself and shuts down when he can't deal with his emotions.

That may be so, but he was making it your job to fix or deal with his emotional state, without taking any responsibility himself, and without any apology to you. This is draining for you. Hence, despite feeling loved, you also felt on edge.

It’s interesting that even now he sees no need to change anything or make amends.

I totally understand what you are saying about giving up on your version of the relationship. It may feel like good riddance to others but it’s still painful for you, because not everything felt bad. It may take a while.

One of the things I asked my therapist (about the stonewaller actually) was “is this abuse?”

My therapist rightly said “it doesn’t have to be abusive for you to find it unacceptable to you”

Took me a while to wrap my bonce around that one, but he was dead right

Oh and nobody knows a person until they are involved with them, we NEVER know what goes on behind closed doors. We also need to understand that there are some who would rather see us in a bad relationship so it makes them feel better about a bad relationship THEY are in.

My M did this, actively tried to keep me in the abusive relationship because otherwise she would have the worst relationship

Well she resented my happiness in everything tbh, so perhaps it was knowing I was miserable that made her work so hard to undermine me getting free of him.

Op ive been reading this and want to add that his cruel attitude of walking away from your son without proper ending and explanation really doesn't make him sound like a good man.

Oh my dear.. I came on to Mumsnet today intending to start my own thread about 'what to do' about my relationship...and I found your story. My DP sounds so much like mine. We are talking about getting married too, he has talked at length about it and how he's going to look after me and my DD, financially and loak after in many other ways. He had been such a wonderful support to me through my divorce and problems with my daughter. I love him so deeply, because when he is good here is fabulous. But...his behaviour can be just like your ex. He had has 2 very long, very difficult marriages...and he has been left so insecure.

I can't face telling my DD...her dad has been terrible throughout the divorce and upset her so much. She looks to him as a dad now.

Well done for breaking free...I don't seem to have the guts to do it at present. It has made me very wary of marrying him...he is wanting to marry as soon as the divorce comes through...which will still be months away, but it will come one day

How are you today?

Wentendgirl, start your own thread as you can get support on the journey.

He had has 2 very long, very difficult marriages...and he has been left so insecure

Don't fall into the trap of thinking he is "insecure".He has most likely caused his difficult marriages through his behaviour.
His promises to look after you and your dd is not altruistic.Once you are dependant on him his behaviour may change.My ex wanted to help me, "shouder the burden" until he was completely in control.

I would not marry him until you know more about his marriages.I was a 2nd wife and wish I had known about his 1st marriage.
Please tread carefully read books by Lundy and Patricia Evans.

I’ve only read the first page. He sounds like a prick and I definitely wouldn’t marry him.

Ah, I see you’re not going to. Best of luck op.

I haven’t read all tread but I just want to say, I could have written your tread, my husband is exactly the same and I thought he would change. And you know what? He hasn’t changed. The only think I asked him was not to go to bed after an argument and last night he didn’t talk to me and I had no idea why. This morning he explained it was all my fault ( stupid little things) And the worse part is we are on holiday at the moment and he has managed to spoil everything. Don’t marry him. He won’t change. Unless you don’t mind and his good quality make up for it

Thank you Hermonie

It's probably best that I start my own thread and not talk on someone else's. I'll do that next.

I have met both of his ex wives. Number 2 has bipolar...I know this from her own admittance and she has told me about lots of what happened. Number 1 I met at a family event because she's his son's mother. She seems shy. DP said she was passive aggressive and had an affair with a married man from age 15, which she rekindled years later during their marriage.

I'm scared of my future. Every divorced woman I know seems to have a sister, mum or a career to fall back on. My family are all dead, I've no job prospects (have a minimum wage job) and I lost all the money my mum left me...thousands of pounds...because my ex husband spent it.

Thank you for all the messages and sorry for the radio silence. I spent some time snuggled up on the sofa with DS after school then my sister came round last night and made me dinner and we talked everything over.

It was really good to talk to her and she read through all the emails and she also pointed out the red flags that you all did. She has recently come out of a very toxic emotionally abusive marriage and so understands abuse only too well.

I feel so much better after another sleep that I feel I can think more clearly today.

I had another email from 'D'P last night in which he did apologise for his part in making me unhappy amongst other things but he didn't acknowledgement the sulking issue which he seems to be pointedly ignoring.

I know most of you will disagree with this but I've arranged to have a talk with him on Saturday as I feel like I want to hear him out and I would like to have the opportunity to tell him clearly how I feel. I'm not expecting anything from it but this feels right for me and I need the closure. I know it's easy to say block him and don't ever talk to him again but my heart needs to catch up with my brain.

No way anyone on here will disagree with you.
This is your life and you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
What you need!!
I hope you find that closure.

Cancel this talk with him on Saturday, he will do his bit here to ruin your entire weekend. No good will come of this. What does your sister think about this proposed meeting?.

Your Saturday talk will likely go very badly. You do NOT need him talking to, well more like at, at you with puppy dog eyes; this is not a parent and child dynamic you are in either. You will again co-operate, he as the abuser here never co-operates.

He's already said and done more than enough already, why do you want to hear him out at all?. He does not want to hear your point of view because you are not an equal in his eyes. He still refuses to take responsibility for his actions i.e. the sulking behaviour which is really another form of emotional abuse. You've already had closure on this; he has gone and he needs to remain gone as well.

Your heart certainly does need to catch up with your brain but you think with your brain, not your heart. Do not let your heart rule your head here. Your heart does not really have to catch up with your brain.

To respond to your messages:

Coyoacan I think there are different types of sulking though and having been brought up in a house where noone apart from my mother was allowed to express any feelings I can understand this sort of sulking as a way of dealing with anger. But there is a difference between responding to a real problem and then acknowledging your part in sulking and fabricating arguments to use the sulking as a way of punishing your partner and not accepting your part in it. Does that make sense?

Hissy I do admire you and how you've managed to overcome your past. That's a lovely story about your DS and your DP looking after you. It really does show how a relationship should be and so lovely for your DS to see that.

My question is really HOW do I get to the point where I can be the nurturing person to that little girl in the way that you describe? I do feel far more compassionate to myself than I was when I was younger but I'm obviously not quite there yet. Is counselling the only answer?

Tempus Your childhood sounds awful and I'm sorry you had to experience that with your father and I really don't want that to be DS's memories of growing up. We had such a nice time after school yesterday and it was lovely to be free of the feeling of tension without 'D'P here being moody.

Trackr Your explanation of me feeling loved but on edge because of it being my job to fix 'D'P's moods really struck a chord with me. And actually reminds me how I felt growing up with my mother.

And I think it will take a while to get over him despite the bad times because to me this has felt like the closest to a good relationship I have ever experienced.

westend and Anmi I'm so sorry to hear you're in the same boat and I really hope all the wonderful advice I've been given can help you too.

Hermonie I'd forgotten about the Lundy book. I might dig that out and have another read.

At the very least ChooChoo consider what you want to achieve from this and how likely this is going to happen. Don't expect him to automatically acknowledge what you experienced. He may resist taking blame, or contradict your claims. Go only if you are sure you will be satisfied just by saying what you have to say, no matter what the reaction.

Attila Respectfully, I know you are trying to help me and I really appreciate you investing time in responding to my thread and the helpful advice you have given me - but it is hard being told what I must and musn't do. I feel like I've had enough of that in my life.

I have made the decision that I feel is right for me to talk to 'D'P. I don't expect anything to come of this talk but I want to have it. I would not be happy for 'D'P to go without doing it.

I can't really explain why I feel this is important but I do.

He likely will make puppy dog eyes, equally likely he will rant and rave and blame me for everything. Either way I feel it will help crystallise my thoughts and help me to move on.

Sorry, I cross-posted - as I said I don't think I have any unrealistic expectations of anything changing because of this talk or that 'D'P will suddenly understand my feelings or take responsibility for anything. To me it just feels like the right thing to do.

"He likely will make puppy dog eyes, equally likely he will rant and rave and blame me for everything"

If he does do this then hopefully you will have your closure. I am not telling you what to do here; I am suggesting instead that this proposed meeting is not a good idea and if I stood in front of you I would not say anything different. I will not say I told you so if it does not go well.

Are you going to have someone with you?. I would not meet him on your own.

I would also suggest you post on or read the resources at the start of the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages. Your mother in particular has a lot to answer for. I was not unfortunately all that surprised to read that your sister has been in a similarly abusive relationship herself given your mother's behaviours in your family of origin.

OP, I think meeting him on Saturday is a good idea.

You’ve been in a relationship with him for five years, which ended over email! Of course it’s right to sit down with him and talk about things. Especially if DS is at his Dad’s which gives you a chance to have a proper discussion.

I’m not saying you should definitely reconcile. But I do think that some people can learn from their mistakes and this might be the jolt he needed.

Only if you address the sulking thing though. If you try to talk about that and he refuses to discuss it or to admit he’s in the wrong, then there’s no point taking things any further. You can talk very specifically about the latest incident with the heater and ask how he can possibly justify not speaking to you for two days over such a tiny incident.

Of course, it may be that other posters are right and he was looking for a reason to leave. But if he wants to try again then I think he deserves a hearing. I do think some posters on MN are too quick to say LTB.

Attila Thank you. I do think talking to him and seeing how he reacts will help me to see what you're all saying about him which in itself will help to give me closure.

I don't anticipate that the talk will go well but I think that that will actually help me - if that makes sense at all. Probably doesn't really!

And yes, my mother is quite another story. I had counselling after I left DS's dad and it did help me deal with my childhood - to a degree. I believe she did the best she could do as a parent in the circumstances - her upbringing was truly horrific - but she really wasn't a very good mother. She was probably a damn sight better than her own mother though! But our childhood has certainly made me and DSis into the adults we are.

Amber I'm not looking for a reconciliation but I would like to try and have a proper discussion. And I agree about addressing the sulking thing.

I think there are different types of sulking though and having been brought up in a house where noone apart from my mother was allowed to express any feelings I can understand this sort of sulking as a way of dealing with anger. But there is a difference between responding to a real problem and then acknowledging your part in sulking and fabricating arguments to use the sulking as a way of punishing your partner and not accepting your part in it. Does that make sense?

Actually that is what I was trying to express in my own clumsy way. Good luck on Saturday.

Hissy I do admire you and how you've managed to overcome your past. That's a lovely story about your DS and your DP looking after you. It really does show how a relationship should be and so lovely for your DS to see that.

My question is really HOW do I get to the point where I can be the nurturing person to that little girl in the way that you describe? I do feel far more compassionate to myself than I was when I was younger but I'm obviously not quite there yet. Is counselling the only answer?

the answer to this love is SLOWLY :D

the first step I took with myself and the silent treatment guy was to be truthful with myself - as you are and have been here.

You know that what he does is wrong, that you find it unacceptable. You know what he does makes you unhapppy

It is horrible when he talks to me aggressively. He doesn't say anything horrible about me exactly but I do feel like he criticises the way I do things. And he does seem to think he's right in doing so.

He is showing you who he is. The wedding is getting closer so he thinks you are more on the hook and more likely to put up with this stuff.

The person he is is who he is beginning to show you now. He will only ever get worse.

If you allow the guy to meet up and talk at you again, he will pull out all the stops to get you back in line.

Why? because he can't live without you? because you are a true love? Erm, no. It's because of the gargantuan effort he has had to make to appear normal for this long to get you on the hook, and the dread he faces when he realises that if you do dump him, he will have to put in the same amount of effort to pretend to be a decent person to get his next victim. He will get angry with you in this process.

Nice people are nice. People like him have to pretend to be nice. Its a HUGE effort. Just as its a HUGE effort for you to say "NO, that's not how I like to be treated" and stick to it. Your default is not to stand your ground, not to raise an issue, and not to make any kind of demand or assumption that someone will want to treat you with kindness, love and respect.

Atilla puts her point across strongly, I know her personally and love the bones of her, she means only love and support for you and for her to see someone as genuinely nice as you in this kind of turmoil will bother her a great deal.

I personally woudl say to this guy that actually, there is little point in meeting, as he won't see that his behaviour is wrong, and you know your's isn't, so while he may want to convince you to put up with more angry words, or stonewalling etc, you know this is a hiding to nothing and that you can't expect him to change the kind of person he is, when he's clearly had ample opportunity to learn that this is not the way to treat those you love.

Remind him that you are a parent to a young man, and you are not about to let your young man learn that silent treatment or aggression have any place in a relationship, so sadly, there is no point in wasting any of your time or you any of his.

You are dealing with an arch manipulator here, and your tool kit is lacking in a few things. The Freedom programme online may be a good start for you, but being much more honest with yourself about how you feel, and who makes you happy and adds to your life, without repercussions or prices to pay.

this bloke is a fake, he;s not the man to marry. he's taking up the space of a man who makes everything better.

There is more to live than settling for a substandard man who makes you feel bad about yourself.

the answer to this love is SLOWLY :D
Ah, I was hoping you'd tell me there was a magic solution! Will try and take on board your very helpful advice and will definitely look into counselling again.

I do realise I'm one of those very annoying posters who is going against the MN wisdom in saying I'm going to meet him when you're all telling me not to. But I really hope this is the right decision for me.

I feel like if I actually can see him acting in any way other than how he should in the circumstances it will reinforce everything you're saying. And I can't actually imagine another outcome considering everything that's happened this week. And if that helps me deal with it then that's got to be right for me.

Attila and Hissy I know everything you're saying is to help me and I do appreciate it - no matter how strongly you put your points across!

My love... if you think you should meet him, that’s fine... but I would suggest you put it off for a week or so.

Let yourself grow a little, gain a higher perspective?

He’s a manipulative person, he’s skilled in making others believe him, or the him he wants to portray.

Of course he won’t give himself away in an hour... he can help of into the illusion of who he wants you to believe he is for months, years even.

It takes on average up to 2 years for abusers to show themselves, often it’s at points like engagement, marriage, pregnancy or birth where the mask slips

He’s using minimisation, denial and blame to make you feel you are responsible for his happiness

He’s punishing and brain washing you with his silent treatment to make you do what he wants, he engineered a fight out of a heater (ffs) because he wanted You on the back foot.

It’s blown up in his face and he has a shot at guilting you in to taking him back. Hence the heart strings for ds, and we’ll probably have snot and tears too. I wonder if he’ll dry cry... many do.

Buy yourself some time To gather yourself. Put him off for a couple of weeks...