Having doubts about my relationship - can you help talk me through it?

[ChooChooLaverne]

I just need to put my thoughts down as my head is in a spin and I'm not sure if it's me or DP. I'm sorry but it's quite long.

I met DP 5 years ago and we're meant to be getting married in the summer. He's not speaking to me today. Again. I have told him that I don't like it when he sulks, I hate going to sleep on an argument and like to try and talk to resolve any problems - even if we can't agree - I don't see why we can't be kind to each other.

This time he's sulking because he asked me if I knew how to use the heater last night when I was about to start cooking and I said 'I know' but he didn't listen and carried on telling me how it worked (it's my heater by the way). Now admittedly I don't understand the inner workings of the heater (and nor do I care) but I do know that it has a dial to turn the temperature up and down which is why I again said 'I know'. He got angry with me as he didn't think I was listening to his explanation and he didn't like me saying 'I know' more than once when I obviously didn't know. (Sorry, I do know how tedious this is)

I tried to get him to lighten up and gave him a hug and apologised for interrupting him but I said I didn't think it was important enough to have an argument over and could we just make up and move on. He said it was important to him and went off and lay on our bed. I was trying to make dinner at this point and was about to go and say goodnight to my DS so I left him to it and hoped he'd calm down and we could carry on with our evening.

I tried chatting normally when we had dinner but he wouldn't look at me and gave me monosyllabic responses when I said anything so we spent the rest of the meal like a pair of Carmelite nuns. He went to bed early and when I went to bed later he didn't speak to me, kiss me goodnight or put his arm round me - like he does every night. He got up early for work this morning, didn't kiss me when he got up - like he does every morning - and came and said goodbye in a half-hearted voice before he left.

I haven't heard from him today and I normally get a couple of texts from his throughout the day.

I am normally the one to apologise and cajole/talk to him until he comes out of a sulk but I don't have the oomph to bother today and I haven't sent him a message either.

I feel like I seem to upset him without meaning to and I seem to find myself apologising a lot. I get the impression he sees himself as a victim but I really don't believe I'm to blame for everything. He can take offence over the slightest thing but can sometimes talk to me in a fairly aggressive tone of voice and doesn't seem to understand why I would find that upsetting.

However, most of the time he is absolutely lovely to me and very thoughtful. He has been very patient in developing a relationship with my DS who was very jealous of our relationship in the early days. But he does also seem to take offence at my DS's behaviour sometimes as though if he doesn't behave impeccably it's a personal slight to him.

When things are good between us I feel like we have a great relationship but today it's like all I can remember are the times that he's not spoken to me or has spoken to me in an unpleasant way and I'm not sure what to do. Ironically, there are a couple of wedding related things that I'm meant to be sorting out today but at the moment the thought of spending the rest of my life being given the cold shoulder from time to time by my husband fills me with dread.

Thank you if you've read this far. Is there anything I can do to resolve things? I'd appreciate any thoughts.

Thank you for all your messages. I saw my lovely friend last night who talked it all out with me. She has a slightly different perspective to you as she knows DP and sees him as someone who perhaps just goes into himself and shuts down when he can't deal with his emotions.

I'm struggling to see him as the monster you all describe - he made me feel so loved most of the time. And did so many lovely thoughtful things to try and make me happy and always seemed to be thinking about me.

I doubt he was ever ‘checked in’ you are correct that it is all about him. It always has been, even at the start when he was being nice it was all about getting hold of you for him to use.

But he made me feel more loved than I have ever felt and totally accepted me for who I am and seemed to get me. What does that say about me?

He sent me a lovely email last night wishing me well and wanting only the best for me and saying what a lovely person I am.

He is resolute that he wants to come and get all his stuff this weekend. I asked him for more time so that I can have some time to think but he said he couldn't cope with waiting any longer and being upset all over again. So I guess his feelings trump mine. Again.

I have no idea what to tell DS - he will be devastated and won't understand why he won't see 'D'P again. He won't be around this week as it's his weekend with his dad. I feel so guilty about causing him (DS) pain again after putting him through splitting up with his dad already.

And I feel bereft. We had so many plans.

But he made me feel more loved than I have ever felt and totally accepted me for who I am and seemed to get me. What does that say about me?

That you are desperately clinging on to the good times and ignoring the bad times.

That he is almost certainly abusive, because this is standard abuser behaviour; making you feel the most loved/understood ever one minute then not speaking to you for days/taking offence over the slightest thing/getting aggressive the next.

It is intermittent reinforcement and it is how abusers keep their victims captive for so long.

sees him as someone who perhaps just goes into himself and shuts down when he can't deal with his emotions.

He’s also someone who gets PA and verbally aggressive though isn’t he? That is more than just ‘going into yourself’ it is attacking you.

And this;

He sent me a lovely email last night wishing me well and wanting only the best for me and saying what a lovely person I am.

He sent a really manipulative email last night making a token effort to be flattering and paint himself as the good guy without actually taking any responsibility for anything.

He is resolute that he wants to come and get all his stuff this weekend. I asked him for more time so that I can have some time to think but he said he couldn't cope with waiting any longer and being upset all over again. So I guess his feelings trump mine. Again.

Yes, his feelings trump yours, every time. He’s just pointedly doing sadface at you to Jeep on the pressure to take him back.

When he comes on the weekend he’ll be expecting you to be a mess and beg him to allow you to make it up to him.

*heap

Maybe he can was having second thoughts about marriage and has grabbed hold of this chance to get out of it with both hands?

It really is bizarre that he’s STILL refusing to have a conversation about things like a grown up.

It will be ok OP. He’s being all nice now and you are just thinking of the good times. How could you have been happy with him long term? Being with a man like that for the rest of your life?

Believe me, you and your DS will be happier without him and his shitty mood swings. You both deserve better.

What offred wrote; do take heed.

Friends can be over invested as well choochoo.

I would also consider blocking his e-mails or sending them immediately into your spam folder.

This man has still not apologised nor has taken any responsibility for his actions. He is a carbon copy of his own sulking mother. He also targeted you from the beginning to use your own niceness against you; this is what abusive people do. Its all about power and control; he wants absolute over you and your son.

I would have someone with you when he does deign to show up. He does not have to actually come in to collect his remaining things and I would leave these in bags on the doorstep.

I'm sorry ChooChoo but I also think he was having second thoughts and had emotionally left the relationship. He engineered a sulk over how a heater works FFS ! Whilst you were busy cooking.

He has grabbed the chance to sprint away as quickly as possible.

You will remember the good times. You will have better times going forward it just takes time.

How are you Op?

If he apologised for his sulking behaviour & recognised its impact on you, then you'd have something to move forwards with. He hasn't and is still only expecting you to do the begging.

So, if you some how patched things up, how would you react the next time he wanted to explain the inner workings of your heater to you?

Rapt attention, not wanting to trigger another sulk?

And what about the next time he was sulking about something or other? Tell him to grow up, ignore his stonewalling? Or cajole him into 'forgiving' you?

How about when your son is less than perfectly behaved, acting like the child he is? How tense would you feel and how would that affect the boy who would pick up on that even if nothing was explicitly said?

If you took this man back you'd be setting up yourself and son for a lifetime of walking on eggshells and the ensuing anxiety and sadness. For both of you.

Your partner would be ok though, King of the Castle.

If you were to beg him, he'd probably be quite happy to continue the relationship. But that is not what you want, is it? A man to take no responsibility for the times he hurts and upsets you? I'm sorry you're going through this

If he still has keys I suggest you go out and do something nice for yourself and request he posts his keys through the letterbox when he has taken his stuff.

Completely agree with Offred. Go out for the day.

Oh god please don't be taken in by his bollocky manipulative email. He wasn't so fucking lovely when he was ignoring you and deliberately and knowingly making you feel bad.

Thank you all for your responses - it really does help to hear what you're saying. I feel like I'm flip flopping all over the place as I'm so tied to the idea of him loving me like he said he did. I certainly love/loved him and it's hard to change the way I see him. It's going to take time and space I think.

I've been out for a walk with some friends who let me blub all over them. Feel like I'll never stop crying.

I've actually got lots of work to do and deadlines looming so I've got to somehow crack on and try and focus to get it done in time.

I don't know what to do about Saturday. Will think about it later - would probably be easier not to be here but I feel like I'd like to see him one last time. There is no going back you're all right. There are so many things that would need to change for us to have a healthy relationship and for me to trust that my DS was being looked after. And he's shown no signs of feeling sorry or wanting to apologise.

Those of you who said he's leapt on this as an opportunity to leave I think are right. I think he's been looking for an out - subconsciously or otherwise - as he has found the reality of being part of our family so much harder than he'd imagined.

Thank you all for your thoughts - it really means a lot x

He created an argument so he could ignore you and make you feel crap.

he manufactured that anger to hurt you.

You need to be loved, but you will always be at huge risk from people like him and worse until you realise that the first relationship you need to be in is with yourself.

This guy IS abusive, sure a piss poor relation of your previous abusive exes, but over time he'll get better at it and will hurt you more and more... because he WANTS to...

focus on how bad he makes you feel, think about what kind of example it sets to your DS.

Demand better for yourself, for DS, because you deserve the best

have faith.

Hissy Thank you. I will try to focus on the bad things - that's what I need to do to help me through this. I know I will be ok. I have been through worse and I am resilient. I have to be strong for DS.

I did think I'd cracked the loving myself bit but I obviously need to work on that more.

We really do deserve the best and DS should never be at risk of feeling like he's not good enough.

Thank you.

I've been you darling, and much worse tbh, but that's another story for another day...

A few years ago, when I started dating I had someone stonewall me a couple of times, I warned him once, twice then 3rd time that was it, gone. He didn't like it one bit, tried all sorts of scare tactics and manipulation, but i HAD done the freedom programme, i was on MN and knew that i deserved to feel better than that, and also that i hadn't done anything wrong.

Worse, I had told him about the silent treatment, that it was manipulative and abusive and how i hated it, and how it made me feel, so when he did it again, i repeated my position.

It IS a long road to get to the place where you know you are worth it and you need faith in yourself and in life in general to know that it will all be worth it.

I admit to almost giving up, thinking that perhaps all those awful people in my life (family) who criticised me to the point where I believed I wasn't worth anything, and that perhaps there are people who don't deserve to be happy and that I was one of them were right.

Even then there was a teeny little voice who said, 'No, you DO merit happiness, you ARE worth it, don't give up'

Then I met someone who is beyond my wildest expectations, and then some, and he thinks the same...

Believe!!

I am over a year from separation yet still reflect on how much he made me feel loved at times...but those times were when it suited him.He enjoyed being caring but on his terms.However whenever you ask for something, like the weekend, and it doesn't suit him your feelings are discarded.That is not loving someone.What about your ds? is he capable of reflecting on the impact to him? My ex shut down after we told the children and didn't think to make contact because he was too overwhelmed.However I and you are able to think of the dc.Their capacity for genuine empathy is very limited.

It is worth considering covert narcisstic traits as this might help you unlock the conflicting behaviours you are witnessing.I believe my ex knows he has issues as in frank moments says he knows "he can't have relationships".

It is incredibly sad for you but you are saving yourself years of heartache.I also believe staying for longer impacted my health as outwardly I appeared to cope but it took its toll inside.

It takes a while to make sense and heal after this type of relationship as its not a usual breakup and others who don't have experience will not understand.

Hissy That's lovely to hear. I remember you posting when I was here several years ago when I was making the decision to leave DS's dad who was emotionally abusive. I'm so glad you are happy.

I do feel like I'm so much stronger than I was back then and much kinder to myself. But in this relationship the abuse has crept up on me and I think there were times where I didn't do as you describe with the person giving you the silent treatment.

I remember the first time 'D'P was anything other than lovely to me and I was confused and my inner voice piped up. I was seeing a counsellor at the time and when I related the incident to her she didn't seem to see it in the way that I did and I sort of went along with her version and shut down that voice. I can see that now and I think as more incidents arose I've done the same until it's got to the point where I can't silence it any more and I have to take notice.

I know I'll be ok and I know it is the right decision. I deserve more and DS certainly does. It just hurts right now and I think most of that is about giving up on the version of my relationship I wanted to believe in.

Hermione I'm not sure he can reflect on what this means for DS. He asked me in his email if I can say goodbye to DS for him. I can't imagine how DS is going to feel about being abandoned like that. He's known him almost half his life. At least he still has regular contact with his dad and their relationship is much better than it would have been had we stayed together. But he spent more time with 'D'P than with his dad so it's going to come as a huge shock for him to just disappear.

I'm sorry that your relationship affected your health - I hope you are finding things better as time goes on. I'm sure I developed anxiety from being with DS's dad.

I'm so sorry you are going through this, ChooChoo. I come from a sulky family so am a bit defensive of sulkers, while at the same time, hate it.

I see sulking as a way some people learn to express anger. My mother grew up with three brothers in a small house where expressing anger was forbidden. So she became a sulker. I never wanted to be like that, but when every other method fails I tend to sulk.

However, nobody in my family has ever sulked overnight or for such a stupid reason and when we are in the wrong we acknowledge it. I think that is the nub of the matter.

I think most of that is about giving up on the version of my relationship I wanted to believe in

thing is, you WERE right about him. your instinct was bang on and you (with help from the counsellor) over-rode (if that's even a word..) your inner voice.

For me, the relationship with ourself STARTS with the little voice. that little voice is us - the little girl taught that she wasn't slim/pretty/clever/good/whatever enough to be treated well/with respect, kindness and love.

By loving that little girl, being the parent/nurtering person she needed then will help you get stronger NOW.

It takes blind faith to believe in ourselves to this extent, but we have to have that amount of commitment to ourselves.

Your DS would have been RUINED if you remained in this relationship long term. Growing up seeing an adult ignore his mother whenever she fell foul of whatever pile of bollocks he concocted to exact this cruel punishment... and eventually, he would do it to your DS.

The line to take with DS is that relationships are not easy, but that respect and communication are critical. Explain that we have to treat those we love with respect and kindness, and if we have issues with each other we have a duty to communicate and resolve them like grown-ups and not 'punish' each other.

The 'say goodbye to ds for me' is manipulative bollocks. you need to be as decisive as possible with this guy, as he's still playing games.

You need to show your DS how a man needs to treat a woman, and your DS needs to know that he needs to respect and care for the women in his life. With an abusive father, it's VITAL he learns that normal people don't behave like his dad does, or how this guy does.

I had the same with my DS.

Now that I have my DP, my DS sees what love and care is and for the first time in his life, he sees what a real dad is like. I've been ill recently and the 2 of them were so keen to care for me, because they know I am the first to care for them when they are not feeling good. I wasn't used to that level of fuss, but I have to say it felt really great to have 2 such wonderful men falling over themselves to be caring and kind.

Sorry you are hurting OP but it certainly seems like you made the right decision even though it hurts like hell. Hissy has some fabulous advice.

I grew up with a sulky dad and had a sulky best "friend" throughout primary school, she treated me appallingly but I didn't realise at the time because my dad's behaviour had made it my norm. I just blamed myself and spent years chasing after my "friend's" approval whilst she happily cut me off for days at a time (once for 3 months) just because she enjoyed watching me turn myself inside out trying to get back in her good books. Each time it happened she never gave me any reasons. My dad also used to stop speaking to me for a day or so at a time, and even then I would have to go begging to him to be allowed to "make up" with him. Needless to say as an adult I ended up in an abusive relationship which again I didn't recognise simply because my exH was nicer than my dad had been. Yes I'm the common denominator so it was easy to think it was all my fault but since finding nicer people to be in my life I realise it was actually them with the issues, not me. I was just unlucky to be born to a parent who made me feel worthless.

Wishing you the strength to see this through for both you and your DS.