Its happened and now I'm scared.

[1DAD2KIDS]

So anyone who knows me on here knows I was dating a wonderful lady but lack of free time and just a feeling of something missing. Anyway we broke up, she sent me a text basically saying everthing I was thinking. I told her I felt exactly the same. So we shared our mutrual appreciation for each other, said we'd keep in touch and said our goodbyes. As break ups go it was a very pleasant one.

Anyway I decided (based mainly on the problem of not having time for a relationship) to go back to causal relations. So back in the internet I went because a couple of my previous FWB have since entered relationships. I got talking to someone and what happen next was totally unexpected.

We got chatting, it was going well and we rang each other. It just flowed so well. We talked from about 12am to 7.30am. I don't think I ever talked to someone for over 7hrs on the phone before. We had a daytime social meet just to see if would click. It didnt work like that. We hit it off and things were amazing. Honestly had one of the hottest and funniest days of my life. The more we talk the more we both realise we have so much in common. The connection is amazing. I have always felt a bit lonely in a lot of relationships. I felt that it was unrealistic to find a woman totally on my wave length. And that (as I sort of knew) like with my last girlfriend i think has been the problem with others, great women but just that something missing. There is sometime different about her, for the first time (since my ex wife) I am actually feeling, something strong. Something that I thought was dead to me and would never return. I feel like a giddy love sick teenager. We talk every day. I have never been compelled to do that with any of the women I have dated. We can just talk for hours and it feels so natural. She is just on my level and it feels amazing.

So here's the danger and why I'm scared. One I am opening me up my self up to hurt. After all we have started of on a non exclusive FWB basis. From her side of the camp the messages seem to be the the same. She has stated that I am her priority. Like I say it's not exclusive and after years of Marrige she is using the oppertunity to explore Bi-curios feelings. I have no problems with this or open relationships. We are both very liberal in that way and I am not the posesive type. In away this works very well for me because I don't have to the time to give her sole attention she requires and I would not want to hold her back from exploring sexual desires after years of marriage. I don't want to change that or hold each other back from exploring. But I feel I want something more. Dare I say a relationship, all be it an unconventional open and fairly distanced (in terms of oppertunity to physically be with each other). The signals I think are the same from her. For example she asked me if it was ok if she went to meet a woman that shed arranged before we met. I said ok, I genuinely want her to be free, liberated and explore. But I did see that this as another sign that she may already see me not just as a causal sex thing.

So basically I'm a scared because feeling this way about her has come totally out the blue. Honestly I feel sometime really different about her, like she is what I have been looking for. Also scared because it could all come crashing down. So where do I take it from here? Dare I risk formalising the what I think is going on unofficially? I know she is is important because I am scared.

Ah ok. I reckon most people won't give a shit about that. I don't think they should be exclusive at this point, they've only known each other for ten minutes.

The obsessive idealisation is a lot more worrying.

I'm intrigued now by the immoral relationship model

I'm glad it went well and the pair of you are on the same page. I agree that it is entirely possible to be totally authentic, honest and agree to open communication. Not sure why other people seem to think this is not possible. I think all relationships should be based on the same.

If she is submissive, she may well be needy of your attention and of your approval. The need can be met in lots of ways quite apart from giving lots of hours of your actual time, but you will need to demonstrate that she is present in your mind, and that can be done of course by ensuring she knows.....you expect to be present in her mind, especially when you can't meet up, or spend hours on the phone. There are lots of ways to do this. And I think she probably does need to know that when you are apart, its because you can't be together, or in contact, and not because you don't want to be. Of course honest disclosure is necessary. But then I think all relationships should start with good intentions, and a mix of excitement and caution, but ultimately you can't get to know anyone unless you climb over the walls, and what's the point in hiding behind a wall. It just takes longer to climb over, honestly the view the other side is just the same, whether you take two weeks or two years to discover it.

I don't see BPD as having anything to do with being submissive, maybe there could theoretically be an argument to suggest a link, but certainly there is no research to back this up! Although one could hypothesise about both having a common aetiology in childhood trauma. Besides, she has been honest about needing attention. Attachments are built and nourished when we know we are important, present in thought and attention is given. That applies to all types of relationship.

Also just curious...you don't have a pet rabbit do you OP?

If so I'd hide the pans....

Sparkly
That's not nice!
You know literally nothing about OP's now GF,apart from what OP said and I wouldn't make any sort of conclusions about her based on his words as he himself doesn't seem that balanced at all.

The two of you are very well matched.

To be fair they both sound too full on and all these deep conversations and talks of being needy etc after hardly knowing each other...it sounds like a recipe for disaster. I don't understand why they have rushed into a relationship? What's the rush ?!

SparklyMagpie Also just curious...you don't have a pet rabbit do you OP?If so I'd hide the pans.... I ran out of rabbits ages ago, so it's not looking too good for the cat.

To sort of clarify (which is hard and probably still failed) the relationship model is exclusive but is sexually open, If that makes sense? I have never really seen the sense in depriving each other of indulging in our desires. Surely if you like someone you want them to have the freedom to be their self and them you? That doesnt mean we want to go and shag our way round Britain. But it leaves avenues of physical exploration solo and together with others. For example of our mindset we both have people in our life's that are dear old friends that we sometimes have sex with. We both see friendships as a spectrum and sexual enjoyment not needing to be the preserve of a relationship. So it seems mad that just because We are now together that We must insist on throwing these old enjoyable friendships on the scrap heap? These friendships are completely different and no threat to our relationship. So why do we discard such things to be together? We have been setting rules and bounderies that we both agree on. As been said before these things are dynamic and we have challenges ahead. We have defined certain things as only reservered for each other. But that is why complete openness and honesty if king. What's key is we keep talking and only do things that make us both happy. Life is way too sort and we don't want to limit each other.

But basicly we know that society says we should behave but don't understand why? We have both always asked these questions but be oppressed by societal norms that has told us what we propose can never be acceptable.

Also just to clarify she is a submissive (although I hate a lot of the preconception, stereotypes and stigma that people associate with this tittle).

As much as people dismiss the value of our conversations it is far more than two dates. We may have only met physically twice but we have spent many hours getting to know each other over the phone.

This feels so natural in so many ways. I doubt people will understand. Our joint intention is to continue to grow, learn and explore together. What we'll be, we'll be.

I just wish I could articulate what's going on better but this is quite an unorthodox set up and thinking.

It’s really not mate.

It’s classic one twue way Dom meets needy sub and all want to be exclusive fucknuggety whips and chains and hemp rope in aisle 47 in b&q.

Good luck.

Mini I said You can’t have promises of complete disclosure/honesty on date #2! I don’t know why you are conflating BPD and being a sub. They are not the same thing and I never said they were. Being a sub doesn’t mean you are intense/unstable.

Re what is screaming BPD about her is the impulsiveness and lack of stability.

IMO what is driving the OP in this is his history of being abused which makes someone very vulnerable to someone with BPD traits.

And on the one hand dad I think it is lovely when you realise that you aren’t actually constrained by what society says and you can follow the path you want to I also think what you describe is going to be incredibly hard to achieve for you given you are still affected by abusive ex and you are exceptionally time poor.

And again, I caution you, these conversations and meetings have been very exciting for you but you don’t actually know this woman. You have no way of knowing whether any of this is real in anyway and you are investing a HUGE amount of emotions into it on the basis of it being true.

It’s classic one twue way Dom meets needy sub and all want to be exclusive fucknuggety whips and chains and hemp rope in aisle 47 in b&q.

I just laughed so hard I woke up the cat.

OP, we all wish you well. We all want you to be happy, you have had more than your share of unhappiness. The thing that concerns me isn't that you have an open relationship. I've been in kink communities for years and it's really not as uncommon as you think it is. (Honesty and trust are key.) And society really doesn't care, especially when you keep it between you and your partners, because who else has to know?

What's worrying me is the extreme intensity when you barely know each other (and long phone conversations isn't getting to know each other). Your real life responsibilities will have an enormous impact on this, and who you are. Nobody exists in a sexual vacuum (although a lot of us wish we did). If you had said you'd met someone and you got on really well, clicked a lot, were sexually compatible and you're excited, we'd all be cheering for you.

But what you're telling us is a load of extreme, nearly adolescent idealisation of a kind absolutely no human being can live up to forever (though I'll grant, if your relationship is carried out almost exclusively on the phone, which yours is, you'll be able to maintain the facade for longer). This is simply not how real life human relationships work, this is simply not what people are. No matter how compatible you are with someone, they will never be the 'female you' or the other half to you, or any of the other crazy descriptions you've barrelled through here.

It's immature. It's fanciful. It's adolescent. And in the case of two vulnerable people, it's dangerous.

Slow down.

PoorYorick agree with your post 100% !

I can't get over the "dear old friends"

MiniTheMinx I know right !

So unlike the Home life of our dear Queen, eh?

Thing is, I’ve seen this type of relationship a hundred times in the kink community. It never ends well.

OP, when I said you sounded like a sub and not a Dom, it wasn't an insult. I'm a sub myself. You come across as a sub because you simply don't sound as though you have the control and handle on your emotions that a true Dom would have. I'm not saying Doms can't be passionate or fall in love (they'd be crap if they couldn't), but they express it so differently, and not in this weird, OTT, adolescent manner. They're just a bit more masterful of their own emotions than you seem to be.

There's a certain type of man who identifies as a Dom, but really he's doing it because he knows the woman likes it, not because it's actually an inherent part of his nature. They're very easy to top from the bottom and if you try to switch halfway through a scene they'll generally go along with it. They're subs really. And that's exactly what you make me think of.

I wouldn't bring this up except that I think it's relevant here...because it makes you very vulnerable in a way, and combined with a very needy woman who also has submissive feelings, it could easily lead to a situation where each of you is trying to draw even more from the other.

I just think you really need to slow down and take a step back. You've barely met this woman. Phone conversations aren't enough to learn how two complicated lives with various real responsibilities can mesh together in this one intense perfect union you've got in your head.

PoorYorick I confirm by sexual preference she is submissive and it's pounced up on (hense why im weary of the connotations people take from a relationship that contains this kind of dimension) Being read into and super analysed to the nth degree. All sorts of huge deep conclusions to what we are, I am, she is and how we play. The trouble is what you see is a view from through the letter box. Yet you have decided to try tell me what I enjoy, how I feel and who I am. I know my own mind on how I play and what turns me on. I am not here to be told by a stranger what my sexual preferences are. Granted In sure your intention is well ment and based on your experiances. But our world's are different and I will be the judge of what drives my desire.

Your are right about taking it easy. But we have to my mind put the ground work in and gone into cruise now. We have been frank and open about our wants and goals from each other. We know where we both stand and now we can concentrate of just having a simple good time and getting to know each other. We have no intention of taking things fast beyond this establishment of our wants and boundries. We really like each other, the connection is great, it's a lot of fun and we are happy just doing what we're doing. This is something pretty dam good and feels (and is clearly in format) different from other experiences. So yes we have taken off and now cursing. I can't see exactly what we have done that's considered taking things so fast. It's not like we have plans of a shot gun wedding or anything? We had just decided that we like each other enough to give a relationship a stab and how we want to work it.

But dad that last post to yorick is more than a little ironic...

You are running away on flights of fantasy re this woman you have literally only met twice and how she is the female you and having complete and total honesty and never having met anyone you connect with like this before and how it feels like coming home.

Yorick is just saying how you come across to her. You keep saying all these concrete beliefs about a woman you cannot possibly know after such a vanishingly small amount of time. I understand that you don’t see the problems and in your mind you feel it’s all happy and resolved etc etc

And I hope it is...

I seriously doubt it though.

I mean come on! ‘Put the ground work in’ after two dates?!?!

You cannot possibly have put the ground work in, what you mean is you have had a discussion about what you both say you want and in your mind it is now fully resolved because she has said she wants exactly the same things as you in every aspect of life... but you don’t know her!

And you are not even slightly concerned about that being too good to be true, not going to reserve judgement even slightly until you actually have experience of who she actually is? You feel it is great to get all that out of the way, agreement made, signed off and filed away?

People say stuff all the time. It is really quite easy to say stuff, much harder to live it. People who feel like ‘coming home’ after two dates, who are expecting daily contact, who appear absolutely perfect for you etc etc etc IMO 90% of the time are abusive as that really is ticking all the boxes of; intense, impulsive (unstable), lack of boundaries, insecurity, irresponsibility...

And you are being swept up by it because your marriage has programmed you to attach to toxic people.

Can you see that not fully resolved issues re abusive ex + woman you barely know intensely promising you everything you have ever wanted in a partner = hurt

"Your are right about taking it easy. But we have to my mind put the ground work in and gone into cruise now"

Oh bloody hell! You have met each other TWICE, you DO NOT know each other

You do know people can say whatever we want to hear right?

What was the rush in setting all these 'boundaries'?

The way you write about this, for me is getting creepy now , an I think you've gone into all of this head first without a thought of what happens if it goes tits up

I think we'd all like to think this will end well for you but don't you think it's a little funny, nearly all posts on this are basically saying the same thing, and You're the only one who can't see it?

Scenes, playing, dear old friends, kink community.....this is all so much part of the script, the narrative, the circumscribed way in which one is meant to live if they are wired up this way. I've met quite a few people who talk the talk. I've read in so many places that "the sub has the power", we have safe words, we are "sane, safe and consensual" it becomes scripted just like their scenes. Its a world with different language, and different rules, "immoral relationship models" and it's all a bit pretentious. It's about subscribing not subverting anything. This allows a lot of wannabe Doms to mascarade about the place.

I don't know whether you are a Dom, I only know you profess to be. I've seen the self professed tie themselves in knots, but I'm not sure if I one hundred percent agree with Yorick whilst as a generalisation more experienced Doms have very good emotional regulation, and tend to be more contained. One has to master themselves before they can be master over anyone else.

This is where it gets complicated. The scene is hellbent on using language to set up certain rules. One should establish boundaries and rules, and these should be consensual, and the sub has the power, you are simply playing at being her dominant. Well, that might work with play dates but outside of that it's far less subscribed and a whole lot more nuanced. I don't subscribe to this nonsense. A Dominant is a dominant and it's in his DNA to use his intellect, and his emotional intelligence to read off a sub, to understand her, to want to really dominate her mind, body and soul, to direct her, to inspire her unwavering loyalty, to put him above others, and to care for her. In order to meet her need to submit, he must allow her to do so, and it's meaningless if that submission is dependent upon her willingness. For it to be logical, for it to be meaningful then the dominant would have to be demanding this basic thing. You can't otherwise square this circle! That's why it's all a lot of nonsense to "play" Could a true sub submit to playing at being submissive to a man who is playing at being a dominant? I couldn't.

I don't play, never have. How could one trust someone they barely know. Which brings us back to this fundamental question of whether you really know this woman. You don't yet. And whilst you're playing at this silly totally constructed, totally stereotypical "kink" lifestyle choice, bringing in a lot of limitations, bringing in other people, avoiding getting to know the real person, you might never know! And in no meaningful way will you ever be her dominant.

If I were you, if you really do like this woman, get to know her, take your time, cut out all the bullshit stereotypical (it's a bit boring) crap, dispense with the old friends, and be really authentically open to a relationship that might develop. Might. Allow yourselves to be authentically yourselves not based on some silly paradoxical stereotype of a "kink" or Ds relationship.

A true Dom doesn’t need to talk the talk. I’ve seen Dom’s like DAD a hundred times. They almost invariably attract needy subs who aren’t stable and it ends up a clusterfuck.

What I don't get is that everyone seems to be getting well away with themselves here. When I say the ground work I am reffering to setting up a basic starting point. Rather than floating about trying to second guess each other we have simply laid down what we are currently thinking and how we want to play things. I think this is far better than playing games and keeping our cards close to our chest. As I have stated before I do need to get to know her and I look forward to that. When is say we have said to be completely open and honest with each other that does mean I know her inside out, how could I? But what I am saying that is model we want and hopefully being completely honest will be the to success. Of course I don't know 100% if she being 100% honest, neither her with me, how can you at this stage? And that is something to keep in mind. I just don't see the harm in laying are cards on the table and taking it from there?

I still don't get how people are completely wrapping them self up in knots about how perceive our sexual roles. Telling people how they must be, what they must be like, what you are etc. It's all very deep and I get that some people have a very deep lifestyle connection in those roles and the kink community, which is great for them. But we are not them and although I am thankful of them sharing and of course their insight is of value we are not them, our dynamic may not be their dynamic. They are not us. If anything it is others that are trying to project their stereotypes onto us and what we are and are not and how we must be.

My intention now we have talked and laid the ground is to go forward, get to know each other and see how it goes. Let thing develop organically (or not as it may pan out)