"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

What do people do about breaking cycle? Surely if you're the victim of such behaviour your far more likely to repeat it without knowing how to sort it?

Mozzchops I doubt many of us know it better than you do. Do you suspect you're being fed a story?

Peach I think that a lot of the danger of repeating the cycle is avoided if you become aware that your own childhood was abusive. But it is a risk, and if I'm honest, I don't think I would have risked having children if I'd understood how abusive my upbringing was. I did a lot of therapy when my kids were little to try and cope with this stuff - how to deal with the stress of dealing with small kids kicking off, trying to understand how a childhood should be, what it should have in it

I know she had surgery 2 weeks ago
But today her friend phoned and said she has to have another surgery, chemo and lots of info that just doesn't make sense to me as a nurse

Unless it's a personality transplant I suspect you won't want to get sucked back in ...

I'll have to phone her today because I feel too guilty not to
Dd is much better at this than me, when I told her last night about her gm she said 'I don't even know why you're telling me this, I don't care)

Hi, not sure if I’m allowed to post here, as I’m an estranged mother as well as an estranged daughter.
I had a lot of therapy after my marriage broke up. Going back through my childhood and why every romantic relationship I had was abusive. I had my first child at 16, and my third at 23. I think I was searching for unconditional love that I had never had growing up. My mum did do a lot for me, but it was always her way or the highway. If I remembered something bad, it didn’t happen (I now know that was gaslighting).
I was an only child, but when dd was born it was like she was the golden child. It was very dysfunctional. I moved away when the children were small, but my h was abusive (not hitting but other stuff), I struggled with my mental and physical health, and I wasn’t a good mum at that time.
My own mum convinced my dd to move in with her, where she lived through her teenage years. She drove a wedge between me and dd (now an adult). I fully accept my role in that estrangement, and I’m ashamed that my dd doesn’t want a relationship with me. Sometimes I worry that it is me that is horrible if both my dd and dm don’t love me. But I worked so hard to get my life back on track, have an amazing bond with my teen ds’s, and lovely friends. Even though I’m disabled now I still like the life we’ve built, but I miss my dd and wish I could have got better help to fix things when she was small.
Thanks for reading if you got this far.

Mozz

It sounds like you've basically been trained by her to serve her from soon after birth onwards at your own expense.

Your mother does not have friends in the usual sense either, she uses people like this person who has called you. Such well meaning but easily fooled types also do the narcissist's bidding. She is an enabler and flying monkey.

What you have been told does not make sense because it does not make sense; its likely all exaggerated and or otherwise made up. You have some medical training and what this person is saying indeed does not ring true. Such disordered of thinking people also use illness to further control and manipulate their intended victims.

Do not let your feelings of guilt here (totally misplaced by the way) get in the way of phoning your mother. Your DD is perceptive here and her example should be followed.

I’ll add that my mum hasn’t spoken to me for nearly four years now. She got back involved in my life when me and my ex separated. I think she likes me better when I’m weak than when I’m strong. But I wouldn’t handle things how she wanted me to (wouldn’t use my dc as weapons against my ex) and told her that I didn’t like how she had handled things with dd. From then on she cut me out completely. I know when I was young she would fall out with relatives and I would take her side, because I thought that would earn her love. So I guess maybe dd was the same. Sometimes I miss my mum, and I wish she was proud of me and where I’ve got to now, but I don’t miss the drama.
More than anything I would like to rebuild something with my dd, but I’m very aware of not pressuring her, and scared that one day she’ll be posting on a forum like this about me. I know I was rubbish in the past, but now I know better I do better. I hope.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I know you're right but I don't want to be the bad daughter, not that it matters as I live away so don't see the same people
I actually spoke to her and she was surprisingly lucid, sounded totally unlike her

Tatty (by the way that is an awesome username, is that a Scottish expression? I've never heard it but it sounds like it could be) you're a world away from our parents if you're willing to accept that you got things wrong.

Have you ever read I Don't Know Why He Does That by Lundy Bancroft - there's a lot of stuff in there about how kids are affected by an abusive parent - your DH - even if they're not being directly abused, about the trauma of it and about how it's normalised for them that their mother is not treated with respect. And then on top of that your mother in your DD's ear, showering her with praise, telling setting her against you... I've seen my own mother do it.

I think it's easy to doubt yourself and doubt your own motives about this stuff if you've grown up like us but you know your own intentions. Have you ever thought about trying to tell your DD what you've told us? Have you told her the door is open if she wants to reconcile? I think other than that all you can do is leave the ball in her court, sadly.

@toomuch Thank you so much for your kind words. I really related to what everyone on this thread wrote, but was scared to tell my story. I never put it on mumsnet before.
I text my daughter regularly, but not so much hopefully as to bother her, just to tell her little things me or her siblings are doing, or good luck around exam times, or just that I’m here if she ever needs me. She lives away at uni now, and I hope that away from her gm’s influence she might want to build bridges.
I feel disappointed and relieved in equal measure for ds1&2 because my m rejected them (especially ds2) when she rejected me. I think ds1 has her measure a bit, but ds2 has rejection issues. They are just such amazing boys, and I can’t understand how anyone wouldn’t want them!

Tatty I hope you don't mind me dipping in with advice.
My M tried to keep up contact with me but because she could never acknowledge my F appalling behaviour it just continued to hurt me / paint me as the bad guy.
Make regular contact, make no demands. If she ever tells you her opinion or how she feels - really listen, attempt to understand her point of view, give it credence, and remember what she has shared.
I really hope that, in time, she will assess for herself what she has gone through and that you can repair, it sounds like you've gone through hell 💐

Thanks @fc. I was really scared I’d be torn apart on this thread, but I felt really prompted to post as well (if that makes sense).
I am really proud of my dd, especially for getting to uni, and I know in some ways I should feel grateful to my m for getting her there, but I’m so so sad for the relationship we could have had, and that my m did what she did. I know my m had an awful childhood as well, and it’s like maybe that cycle will end with my ds’s, but I do have that “what if” I’d got the help I needed sooner to break the cycle.

for everyone dealing with this stuff. I never knew there were so many of us.

I saw my M this week for the first time in months and tried to do the grey rock thing. Kept any exciting plans to myself as well as news about friends/ family. I thought she could have nothing to jump down my throat about but sure enough an hour after she left I get a text message saying how offended she was by something DS said. He is 5 and made a bit of a joke at her expense, but clearly he wasn’t meaning to offend! I was suppose I was expecting too much to get a ‘nice to see you all’ or ‘thanks for having us’ message rather than an attacking one.

Is anyone else’s narc mother nice as pie to their face but completely venomous in text messages/ emails?

Recently separated. A lot of it is my fault. Can be quite fragile emotionally, got pushed into a huge relocation away from family and friends by my husband, and then simmered with resentment for 18 months till everything came to a head.

We have had huge fights as he shuts down and refuses to have conversations, and instead of giving him space I have insisted he talks which has lead to physical fights - mostly me pushing him saying he has to talk (for context, I am half his size, although this doesn't make it right).

He left me. I feel awful. Both my parents are quite dysfunctional, especially my dad although I'm closer to him. I had a terrible childhood with very unhealthy family. Going back to counselling but I just wish I had been more careful to not let things effect my marriage.

I obviously have some boundary issues as I've agreed to things I haven't really wanted to do, yes after being pushed very hard from a manipulative spouse but its not right to hold onto resentment.

I just don't want to fall into a depression, or never be able to move on from this. I want a healthy happy relationship, ideally with my husband but I don't know if he will come back to me.

Very sad.

Davos

I would not be visiting your mother any more nor subjecting either your son or you to her emotional manipulations and I would now block her means of communications. It is really not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist and doing grey rock over a long period of time becomes wearing.

Hi all, seems I’ve found my people on this thread. I’ve only read some of the posts but will go back to read the rest shortly.

I was raised by a dominant, overly religious, physically abusive father who did and does steamroller over everyone around him to this day. My mother is a weak but manipulative / controlling woman who was and is completely emotionally unavailable during our childhood. All of the siblings have issues in adulthood due to our upbringing and some have had therapy.

I was SA’d by maternal grandfather as a child (roughly between 6-8 years old) and repressed this for many years. Maternal GF is still alive and very elderly. He is a poisonous, toxic individual who has physically and verbally assaulted everyone around him his entire life. He beat my GM until her death a few years ago. He is a hateful, nasty man with no redeeming qualities - literally zero. GM was outwardly very kind and loving but also a manipulative person, which was her means of survival and I get that. She knew what he was, and it seems she protected most of the other grandchildren from his SA, but I was the youngest and was put in situations where I was alone with him without protection from her. He physically abused all of us but not SA (one other was but won’t admit it openly).

Anyway I told my parents about the SA several years ago. In that time they have paid me lip service, but pleaded my silence as it would ‘kill’ my GM (who found out anyway and wasn’t in the least surprised), and to all others in the family said I’m mentally ill / involved in occult practise / have false memory syndrome and whatever else fits. Another sibling even, in that time, confronted them with clear memories of me being take off by GF to be abused, and they were shocked and horrified....then totally buried it and forgot all about it and went back to me being a troublemaker etc.

Our relationship is non-existent anyway because of the utter betrayal and how completely shit they’ve been. When I confronted my dad about the excessive violence growing up he denied it all completely, has no memory (I’m talked 20 odd years of violence from the eldest to the youngest) and again declared me a devilish liar.

I took the decision to report GF for the SA a few months ago. It was horrible and I’m frankly not sure I’d do it again, but an investigation is underway and I’m gritting my teeth and holding on now despite all the crap I’m getting from my family as a result. I have unwavering support of some and am being totally ignored by others. For the sake of trying to save the shreds of our relationship I rung my parents the day they were taking GF to be interviewed to warn them. My mother ignored me for a week. My father made the right noises but told my sister it was pointless as it was ‘my word against his’ - she told him actually it wasn’t as she and two others made statements on my behalf and others have since. At which point he balked and she once again told him her eye witness account which he acted like was the first time he’d heard it.

True to form it’s all been about them. My mother ignored me at the time it happened as a kid (I tried to tell her several times and I’m several ways but was ‘just being silly’ and she can’t remember anything at all about anything, apparently). She ignored me when I told my dad and then sent me a totally random message on a family whatsapp thread days later hoping I was ‘feeling better’ (I’d just completed a major charity event the day before for a friend with cancer). I left the group. I’m not a stroppy one as a rule, I confront stuff mostly, but I just thought screw you and left the group. Then they were dramatically telling people I had ‘cut her off’.

I did go NC with them a couple of years before because of this same situation and their lack of response, support of anything at all. They told me when GM died they’d stop seeing GF but of course they haven’t - mother wants his money. She will never spend it as she’s mean with money but she feels she is owed it after such a rubbish life as his daughter. I reinstated contact out of guilt, mainly for my children, and I was trying to be the bigger person. Trying to love them no matter that they cannot stop failing me, will never be the parents I needed them to be (I left home in my teens) etc but it’s just so hard. They are such martyrs. The SA has been about my mother from the very start, how she has suffered, how awful it has been for her etc. She denies any SA by GF towards herself or her sister. Her sister is just vile but that’s another story, she is a narcissistic mother according to her children.

Seems a lot when I type it out and of course there is more, but I’m just so stuck right now. I’m not NC with them at the moment I’m just not speaking to them. They refuse to speak to the police who want to interview them. They’ve disconnected their phones and buried their heads in the sand, just like always, waiting for their pain in the bum daughter I.e. me, to stop being so inconvenient. My mother is so angry with me but she won’t ever admit it, I can just feel her seething. Her family is riddled with abuse and incest and she is so angry with me for lifting the lid on it all.

Attila, I expect you are right but it just seems so drastic. Until recent times she mostly had big dramas with my sister rather than me as I never called her out on her bad behaviour or stood up to her. So it’s still quite new to me to have all this friction and even though I know it’s because she wants me to go back to being meek and compliant and doesn’t like the ‘real’ me, it seems huge to just cut contact. I am definitely going lc though and will see how things go from there.

Lemony that all sounds awful. Would you consider going completely NC again? I know what you mean about the GC as that’s one of the reasons I struggle with the idea of going NC too. My DC love my mum as in person she puts on an act and is nice as pie so I feel guilty to deny them a relationship with their grandmother, although in reality I don’t think she’s as bothered about them as she makes out on social media, etc.

davos

Do try low contact, this can also lead to no contact eventually.

Its not drastic to say no more and to protect yourself from being further abused by your mother. And now she is starting on your child.
Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no you would not. Your mother is no different. Where many adult children of narcissists usually get tripped up is the failure to recognize the adaptability of the narcissist to changing circumstances.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up but many adult children of toxic parents seem to think that somehow (and despite their own experiences to the contrary) and hope against hope and their experience that their toxic parent/s will behave better this time around. This does not happen, exposing your child to your mother's emotional manipulations is also damaging.

Children as well need emotionally healthy role models, they do not need narcissists grandparents in their lives end of. Narcissists in particular make out for being deplorably bad grandparent figures and tend to either over value or under value the relationship with the grandchild as a means to get to you. They also use the child as a source of narcissistic supply. Its really like watching a re run of a tv show you have always hated, there is really no interaction at all.

Don't be afraid that you are depriving them of something important by cutting off a set of grandparents. You are only "depriving" them of bad things. Reassure yourself with that truth. Family is not everything. Blood is not binding. You are escaping the Mob Family. What should connect us is how we treat each other with love and respect. This is always a good lesson to teach our little ones. If any part of you is unsure of your decision then, for Pete's sake, don't show it. Your resoluteness will go a long way toward reassuring your children that you are acting in everyone's best interest. If your children know that you love them, they are going to feel reassured that this decision is also based in your love for them. They will find an added sense of security to know that you, as their parent, are willing to protect them even at the cost of your relationship with your own parent(s). Rather than being fearful, see the plentiful opportunities in this. You are protecting your children from someone whom you've experienced as being abusive; you are reassuring your children that you are in charge and are watchful for their best interests (creates deep sense of security); you can teach healthy family values which include that family doesn't get a pass for abusive behavior; you can strengthen and reinforce the healthy relationships in your extended family. Kids are less likely to feel like there is a void in their life if you fill it with good things.

Cutting off from your narcissist parent is a good thing. No need to act otherwise. Your children will sense it is a good thing by how you behave. Model how you want them to respond and it is likely they will imitate. Don't be afraid of their questions. Kids are amazingly resilient and well-equipped to handle truth. Parents are supposed to protect their progeny.

@kingdavos I have considered going completely NC, I’m just weighing it up. It caused so much drama last time from the ‘flying monkeys’ - just learned that term on here today. The thing is I have so little to do with them anyway as they never bother and never have when it comes to me. I was the problematic rebellious child and when I became too difficult as a teen they were very pleased to push me out of the door. I had very little to do with them from that point. Even though geographically we live a few miles apart, I’ve probably only seen them about 6 times this year if that and text messages are very rare; my mum texts occasionally completely benign random stuff. They’ve never been ‘in’ my life. I suffered depression from childhood right up until present day. I came off medication a few months ago but since then having reported GF I’ve struggled so much with my mental health I’m wondering if I shouldn’t go back on it. I’ve young children and I’ve been far too shouty with them in recent weeks. I know it being summer holidays doesn’t help so I’m wondering if I shouldn’t wait a bit, but apart from that, I feel numb and hopeless and sad all the time. I don’t know if I should go back on meds or just try to deal with the feelings I’m having and front it out. My parents don’t say terrible things to me like others on this thread, and although my childhood was shitty, it wasn’t as bad as some and I can actually forgive them for it. It took me years to feel that way but I do understand them, they are both monumentally screwed up post-war people who have never sought any help for their huge issues and both had awful upbringings. But what’s really really stung to the point I just don’t know how to handle it is how they’ve treated me over the SA. They chose to believe a nasty, spiteful old man whom they KNEW to be violent and cruel and frankly wicked, over me. I’ve no history of lying to them, I’m truthful to the point of blunt when it comes to myself - I grew up being honest with them and desperate for that honesty where kids can tell their parents anything - I just wanted them to be interested in me. Unfortunately my dad never listens and never has, it’s been a lifelong battle for us siblings as he doesn’t ever listen to us. And my mum might vaguely listen but if it’s anything even slightly difficult she just changes the subject or removes herself from it. I navigated all the awkward teen stuff alone / with the guidance of older siblings where possible because she wouldn’t talk about anything.

And even now that they really have been slapped about the face with the SA being a real thing and not me being a loony fantastist etc they can’t respond in any appropriate way. So being around them / my family or even talking about them is constantly triggering me.

I’ve had therapy / part of online groups etc so I know deep down that literally no one who suffered SA gets support from their parents ...but I just wish it weren’t so. Because even if my abuser would have been hitler, they’d still say ‘oh goodness surely not, we know he was bad but not that bad surely?’ My dad ...a man in his 70s....didn’t even believe people did things like that. For real. And truthfully he still doesn’t believe me. That’s what I can’t handle.

Thanks Attila, your words absolutely make sense. No way would I tolerate this sort of behaviour from a friend. I think I’m hesitant because I don’t have a good relationship with F either (they are not together and he has never shown any love or affection - if I didn’t make the effort to call him I’d probably never see him again) and my H had an affair last year so my marriage is on shaky ground too.

If I’m honest I worry about being alone and having no-one to help me if I needed it. She’s usually at my side in a flash in a crisis although I’m sure a big part of it is that she loves the drama of it all and likes to paint herself as the heroine who came to my rescue. I do have my sister and some close friends but they have their own families and can’t drop everything to help me.

Lemony you seem to have fallen into the trap of thinking because your parents weren’t ‘that bad’ or didn’t seem as awful as some others that it makes it ok. Even if they don’t say horrible things, they haven’t supported you when you’ve needed it or acknowledged your pain and suffering, as normal parents would do. 6 times is still quite a lot, I’ve seem my parents a lot less but we do live a long way apart.

Are you having any counselling/ therapy now? I’m having counselling and it has helped a lot to get it all off my chest.

@kingdavos I’m not having counselling at the moment. I had it many years ago for as long as I could afford to but I can’t afford it now with little ones and to be honest I found it so upsetting when I realised how effed up my childhood was that I don’t think I could talk about it for an hour, shelve it, then go home and raise my kids. I’m working really hard on minimalising stress so I’m not a horrible shouty mum and I know counselling will exacerbate all the bad feelings I’m having if that makes sense as they definitely did the last couple of times.

I like what atilla said to you about accepting the behaviour I.e. would you take it off a friend. I actually had the same conversation a week or two ago with DH saying if it was him treating me as my parents do, people would be telling me to walk away from the marriage as it was emotionally abusive - I don’t know if that analogy helps you at all, but for me comparing it to a marriage helped me process the fact I must work out some boundaries.

My ds1 got his GCSE results today. He did really well and I’m very very proud of him. And I’m a little bit proud of me as well because I home educated him for the last year and put a lot of work into helping him. The thing is I’m also a little gutted not to be able to share that with my family and have them be proud of us too. I’ve had loads of lovely messages on the home ed mum groups, and friends that were super supportive through the whole thing. There’s just this underlying sadness too.

coldtatty congratulations to your DS and to you for the work you’ve put in! It is rubbish when you know you can’t share it, I guess the question is would they be proud and happy for you or would it turn into something else.

It’s rubbish isn’t it. I’m LC with my parents, haven’t got to NC yet, and already the monkeys are flying.

I was wondering about counselling.

I'm having a rough patch with my mother and her toxidity. Today she's made me cry quite badly, and then lied and said, look what you've done now.

I can't really afford private therapy. Is there any NHS help for this kind of thing or would somewhere else help me. Today I'm at my wits ens quite frankly.