"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

I'm not presently able to articulate whatever I might one day like to put in writing, but I am glad this thread exists. Thanks to all.

NC4StatelyHomes I read a quote on the internet that goes

Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.

Apt, in this case

I feel so sorry for your mother's partner, and for you, and I can really relate. My mother had a thing about me being clumsy and sort of useless as regards practical things and I felt that there was some massive gulf of like real life experience/practical skills that I lacked when I lived at home, like it was a topic she came back to often, and I did feel like I would struggle to manage alone but then when I left home, oh look, all those things that were supposed to be so unmanageable were actually fine. She pushed (to me, and to others) this idea of me as some sort of massively impractical head in the clouds academic type, because it was hard for her to make me out as being actually stupid... 10 years after I left home I met up with a bunch of the family who live abroad and they were all like "I had no idea you were so normal" or you know, words to that effect.

I also relate SO HARD to the thing of them not being able to admit one tiny thing they got wrong. I've heard people say that the way to diagnose a narcissist is to either enforce a boundary with them or try to get them to admit that they got something (trivial) wrong. The behaviour that either of those things elicits usually makes it dead obvious that there's something not right with them.

I'm so glad to hear that things got better for you when you moved out. You sound very much recovered, which is fantastic.

westberlin I hope you are OK and please remember that the further away you are, the less the inevitable blowback will hurt you. It's not your job to manage their feelings, and it's not your job to listen to their abuse.

@toomuchtooold
That quote is so true! I feel so much better in myself (on the whole) since i went NC.

Today however is not a good day. Its los first birthday this weekend. I have been busy so have not thought about it but today it hit me. Just how will my mother be feeling (not that i should care!) thats shes missing out on her grandchild's first birthday.

But the thing that has upset me the most is my brother. Hes only 18 still lives and home and i havent seen him in so long because i didnt want to make things harder for him (he calls and texts when he can). And i dont think he will be able to come to the party. Its not worth the grief he will get. But hes missing out hasnt seen us in so long and i miss him. Its just hard. I hate the situation.

I know some people will say he should stand up to her, hes 18 he can do what he wants. But it took me till i was nearly 30 with a supportive husband to finally stand up to her properly. Its easier said than done so i dont blame him at all. Im just sad.

Sorry for the long post again, you guys are the only ones who understand

Have read through the thread and wanted to talk about what happened to me and whether someone could help shine a light on it as I'm really struggling with this and have no one in real life I can talk to about it. Might just help to write it down as my head is whirling !

Last week was a family reunion to celebrate my Mums birthday, I am the eldest of a big family, we were all staying together and basically I couldn't cope I felt awful trapped just when I was like a child ,couldn't sleep was crying. Have had depression in the past but not for many years and not like this since my teens now mid 40's.

To give a bit of background ,my mother absolutely needs to be needed, fostered and adopted children some with disabilities (not me ) even when one of my brothers obviously wasn't well ,personality disorder, she adopted another child with disabilities.She enabled my brother with mh issues she still does( he rings he +10 a day).This brother terrorised me as a teenager, but the impact is not talked about just what happened to her. Now she talks about how hard it is to manage him and my 2 other siblings with disabilities, who although I love she choose to adopt and now cant manage but wont do anything about getting help, but will complain to me and guilt me into helping she says she doesn't except me to look after them when she is gone but is doing nothing about getting extra support.

On the surface my family looks so close but its suffocating , my parents have no friends ,I have recently noticed they don't like me having friends.and live through us,you can never displease my Mother she is always right and at this point no one ever does disagree with her, all decisions need to be passed through her. My brother always let's her decide which house to buy (he has a wife and 2 kids). Nothing is ever said there is never any shouting ,Mum is the expert of everything and we must all follow, like a cult . If you don't the shutters come down and although I am a fully grown woman am terrified of displeasing her . No anger no sadness was ever allowed.

We moved a lot as children which has always made me feel unsettled and helped the cult of Mum reign, again recently I realised this was all about her I went to 5 secondary schools, when I complained -I was the rebellious one, she gave me a black eye at 14 (only remembered that this week) .I always wanted to leave home but was framed as I couldn't manage ,would need help(money) and I kind of came to believe this.(less so now because I proved I can ).

She uses money as control will put money in my bank account without being asked, she will let herself into my house ,I moved countries twice to get away and she followed me !!! Just remembered as my marriage was ending she moved me into a house down the road from her. I am a single parent have been for many years my kids are in their teens and fantastic but as my daughter said to me this week(crying) Gran makes me feel so small just like Dad ( I think I married my mother ! ).Its not the words its the denial of feelings,of a drama and a crisis around her.

I am a successful highly educated professional, who deals with very challenging situations everyday has successfully reared 2 children, but this week I think I have had some sort of break down, the holiday ended earlier due my behaviour although none would say anything (literally),I was seen as being difficult,(just like when we were kids) I wasn't rude just sad and tried to keep myself to myself .When I spoke to my Mum about feeling so low she said don't be silly you don't have the power to ruin the holiday for anyone. We drove back in silence, when we got back something in me whispered this shit has got to end, I said to my Mum quietly as we took things out of the car I can feel the disappointment from you(she loves the able professional go getter me not this me).

She lost it started crying saying how she wasn't disappointed that I was causing trouble again, how tired she was. I kept calm she followed me to the car and refused to let me leave until t had been sorted (until I said sorry) she held on to the passenger door with my teen daughter in shouting in the car at me, then my Dad as usual joined in. I kept calm my daughter told her to let go off the door and that Mum was only saying what she felt. She shouted at dd I told her not to speak to her like that. My Mum goes on about how difficult my exh was but then does something just like he would do.

Oh God this was long, but basically I don't trust my feelings about all of this maybe it is me, my Mum can be kind and loving but it scares me that her actions can have a huge impact on me Now its that I have ruined the holiday, maybe I did but it was like I couldn't do the falseness anymore all this celebration of her and NO recognition of the pain she has caused, the opposite she is seen as wonder mum.

Really deep down and at 2.30am this morning I believe its me , I am trouble I should be more grateful that I can't just be quiet to keep the peace. I will now be the difficult one again have been the favourite for a while that will pass to my brother. My poor kids to have seen this much dysfunction I have tried so hard to do things differently have parented very differently. I covered for their Dad and my Mum(they have never seen that side of her)Then again maybe it is me. Thank you if you have read this far.

Hiya, i thought i would drop by. I posted my story a few days ago in AMA on here "Golden child in an abusive family- and i hate it." Another poster said she thinks this thread (Stately Homes) might help me?

i don't trust my feelings about all of this- maybe it is me my mum can be kind and loving but it scares me that her actions can have such a huge impact on me I could have written this same statement, except using father instead of mother highlandflingabout i completely understand.

Mumma I can really sympathise re. your brother. It was the same with my dad - it shouldn't have been the same, he was a grown man, he could have left, but he was who he was - that if I'd have dropped contact with my mother, I'd never have seen him again. I'm sad that my dad died before my kids were born but the really sad thing is that if he'd still been alive when the penny finally dropped about my mother I'd have probably had to stay in touch with her and tie myself in knots dealing with all her bullshit in order to stay in contact with my dad.
Your brother's 18, he won't always be in her house. I hope he gets out soon.

Highland it's not you. What fragile boundaries they all must have, if you being quietly sad in your room was enough to ruin the holiday. And let's remember: the holiday was already ruined for you, like I would imagine every single holiday you ever went on with your family.
No anger no sadness was ever allowed.
Yep, I've lived in that house. Constantly walking on eggshells, a rictus grin of fake happiness plastered to your face. There are tons of things that can get you into trouble in a house like that but chief among them is ingratitude - your mother lives off gratitude, aka narcissistic supply.

When I spoke to my Mum about feeling so low she said don't be silly you don't have the power to ruin the holiday for anyone.

I think your mother ascribes other people her own motivations. If she was crying in front of you, it would be in order to ruin your holiday - to punish you for something or manipulate you into feeling guilty and doing something for her that you didn't want to do. I remember my mother with this shit. She used to say "oh don't turn on the waterworks, you know it doesn't work with me." I tried so hard not to cry in front of her. The unnatural shapes we bend ourselves into in order to try and survive.

I think I married my mother

There's loads of people on here with similar experiences, and even those of us who didn't marry our abusers usually ended up with someone from a similar family and you end up with inlaws that are the same. It makes it hard, because you look and say to yourself "maybe the problem isn't all these different people, maybe it's me." But it's not, there are normal happy people in this world, it's just that they never end up in our lives! We go out with normal people and we interpret their normal, boundaried behaviour as coldness, or the abusive nutters find us and glom onto us and we don't see the red flags.

What comes across really strongly in your post is that it's like, your feelings about this stuff seem to be arising on their own rather than you having had a conscious thought process sparked off by an external event. Like as if maybe your subconscious has decided this is the time when you need to know about this stuff. You might find yourself recalling more events like the time your mother gave you a black eye. That is really hard. I would recommend you check out the work of Alice Miller or Bessel van der Kolk, and also Pete Walker (there are links in the OP). To use the language of these books, your feelings that are welling up are your inner child's attempts to communicate with you, and it will help if you pay attention to them.

Have you thought about doing counselling? You sound like you need someone in your corner who can hear all what happened and label it as the emotional abuse that it so clearly is. (I mean you're always very welcome to share on here but we're just randoms off the internet ) A therapist will be able to help you to see that the guilt you are feeling is part of the FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) which are the tools that emotional abusers use to keep us close and compliant.

You know how you were saying you don't trust your feelings? Trust them - not the guilt, but that quieter little voice that says "I don't want to do this any more". That's the real you. You don't need to do any of this stuff. I used to not trust those feelings as well because I felt like that was just me being lazy, but it's not laziness, it's the extreme tiredness of someone who has been carrying a burden that's not theirs, for far too long.

Hello goldenchild! I'll have a look at your thread.

@goldenchildreturns I had a look as your thread on AMA - would you mind if I linked to it on here? Only if you want.

You said that one day you're going to tell your therapist that nothing happened to you and that you actually had it quite good. I think it would be a great idea to say that, because then your therapist can start working with you on what sounds to me like survivor's guilt/just plain old difficulty in believing that your abuse was abuse.
We actually say it in our OP because so many people often start their posts on here by saying "I didn't have it that bad" or "I didn't have it as bad as other people". It's the way abuse works. Abusers are very keen to give you the impression that you deserved it, that other people treat their children in the same way, that you're "too sensitive" etc etc. Gaslighting.

I mean already in your OP in the other thread you mention him calling you names and accusing you of lying and stuff, and that is abusive. But as well as that, witnessing domestic abuse is traumatic in itself. I'm no expert on this stuff but one of the things I've heard said about trauma is that stuff like PTSD, you're more likely to suffer from it if you were in a situation where you were powerless to stop the bad thing happening. That was you, all the time.

I wouldn't even say you were much of a golden child, from what you say, because it doesn't sound as if he was nice to you at all really, just less awful. GC tend to be put on a pedestal by parents (and they might superficially enjoy that, specially in a house where loving attention is hard to come by) but in some ways it's actually harder because at least if you're the scapegoat you have an incentive to get out.

I can identify with wishing for a narrative that justifies the problems you have now and your feelings towards your father. I often wish my mother had hit me more and played fewer games of psychological terrorism with me, because it would be a damned sight easier to explain to people, family and so on. One of the stages of recovery, IMO, is getting to the point where you can accept that other people will maybe never understand what you went through, will never feel sympathy etc. I mean you've got us, we get it, but external validation for your feelings if you grew up being emotionally abused - not in this lifetime.
But that's about people outside. There is also the issue of learning to accept for yourself that the problems you suffer with are caused by your upbringing. It's like, here's how I feel about it. I left home with the feeling that it was not just enough for me to exist - I had to achieve stuff in order to deserve my place on this earth. And as regards the shitty upbringing and the problems it gave me, I felt as if I was a success to the extent that the problems I suffered were smaller than the damage my mother did. I measured my self worth in terms of my - you wouldn't call it recovery, I hadn't gone through any recovery - my ability to act as though her actions had not hurt me. And that's total mince. But it's how I felt, and how I feel. Where I've been for the past year or so is sitting with the feeling of being useless, noticing it, noticing how I compare myself to other people and realising that intellectually this is bullshit, but that emotionally it comes from this place of never having been kitted out with the slightest bit of self esteem from my childhood. I don't know where I go from here TBH but thought it might strike a chord for you.

Thank you toomuchtoold ,that is so kind to write a reply like that, it really helps.Yes you are right it has suddenly sprung from me. It feels like when my marriage ended, after I had enough of his abuse suddenly I can see it all clearly ,like I could then.
I am going to email a counsellor this evening , I had it before ,but I didn't really tell the truth I have this overwhelming need to protect the family .Thank you again.

No bother - best of luck with the counsellor.

toomuchtooold thanks so much. I felt comforted a bit by your response. yes please do link to my post on here. if that is allowed.

saw therapist today. He told me that actually i was abused, and he believes that my "labels" of CPTSD and EUPD/BPD are justified. wasa relief that he listened. so few mental health workers in the past have listened. or cared.

to you

NC4StatelyHomes

Interesting- i was diagnosed with BPD/EUPD aged 20, having some issues sinced age 16 and did improve when i first had my own home in my late 20s. but things triggered me again and i ended up worse for a while. am 36 now and attempting to claw my way back up out of it. i feel the abuse has cast a long shadow over my life, hence me having more therapy. i did start DBT a few months before leaving home and completed it 2 years afterwards, but have been seeing a private trauma therapist since May.

My ex sent my 15 year old Dd a text a month ago saying ‘bye’ and now won’t reply to any of her messages. I actually think he has blocked her. She is naturally devastated and I don’t know how to help her. What would you suggest?

I posted quite a few months ago about my d and how I have been trying to go lc or nc with him. It was working, and I was feeling happier within myself, until May. My dc hurt themself at school and needed to attend hospital, unfortunately I was on a school outing, my dh work didn't pass on the message, so my d was contacted as the last number (completely forgot he was down as contact, and has since been replaced by friend), he took dc to hosp, fortunately nothing serious. It obviously meant I had to then contact d to either collect dc or d return dc home. D decided to drop dc home, I had just got in, house not perfect, dogs and dc running around, I thank d and he was sitting all judgemental, holding the dogs collar and twisting it so he couldn't move. wouldn't talk properly, saying how I never call, and how he wants dc to call him.

Cut a few weeks later, he says to db stuff about the will, I call him, he says to cut a long story short that I'm out of the will. I'm quite upset by this, not for the money, but that for me recognising and acting upon the abuse throughout my childhood and finally standing up to him he's done this. D even says 'if you can be a better daughter you still have a chance of being in it.' I put the phone down, very much of the mind of fuck you, I'm not cow tailing to him for the chance of being in the will.

A few weeks later I get a missed call at work, him,I text him later, he demands that I call him. Call him later, he is irate, how dare I steal from him anyone who knows me, knows I am as honest as the day is long. it turns out, he has an acc, which I am joint names on. I was online banking and I clicked on paperless statements, not realising it would be his acc too. He thinks because I have done something I am therefore stealing. apparently ranting to some poor cashier at the bank too.

Roll on last week. I had a tattoo in memory if my mum. My first one, took a lot of guts to do it. I posted on fb, he then rants about how my would have hated it, she was a lady and ppl who have tattoos are drunken sailors . My db supports me and tells him off, and asks him to remove. other ppl supported me, I wasn't going to write, but stupidly did. I said I didn't care what he thought, as everything I've done has been a constant disappointment to him.
He then responds by a woe is me post, hiw he's a really kind bloke who lends money out to his dc and then listed everything he's lent on fb. again he is insisting that I call him, as he does not do text or email.

I pm him and copy my db in telling him exactly why I wouldnt be talking to him. He would minimise, shout me down, twist everything to about him etc etc. he's not responded but read. I have deleted him from fb.

I'm not remotely in the same situation as any of you but I was definitely not in a healthy family.

It's only recently I've realised this. My brother was the golden child. Is. Is in prison. Is a sec offender. My mum blames his MH issues refuses to acknowledge that bipolar doesn't cause his issues and has always dotes on him. Mainly because he's a mummy's boy.

I have come round the the fact I'm going to have to be LC with him on release as he's a potential threat to my children. I will see him, on occasions but he's likely to be living with them on release.

The shit will hit the fan but what can I do. Ugh.

Maybe I do need more counselling....

Hiya,

I’m new to the forum and have been reading through the original SH thread. I have been building up to post. I hope you don’t mind me posting my own story while I catch up on this thread.

I knew for a long time that this was coming. That I was going to have to say something to my mum because she was making me so upset with things she was saying. She just picked at me constantly, blaming my weight for things that were physically impossible, picking apart my parenting, etc...

I struggle a lot with depression and anxiety and she was just kicking me when I was down.

I didn’t really know what this was when I decided I was going to have to talk to her after her inventing a situation where I had jumped down her throat and not speaking to me for days. I just knew something was going to have to be done. I thought we would have a chat, she would go away and think about it and we would work out how to move forward in our relationship....WRONG!!

She didn’t talk to me for 2 weeks. Then she blindsided me by turning up unannounced yet refused to talk about it in detail.

She then showed up a second time unannounced and it went to pot really. She asked me questions to try and batter me into submission. Whether I thought it was ok to ask my mum to self reflect for example- she didn’t like the replies!

According to her she came the first time to talk about things and the second time to answer me questions. To me she showed up to take back control and both time has came expecting me to back down and apologise. That word will not leave my mouth!

This all started about 4 months ago now. I repeatedly asked her how she felt and what she wanted to do moving forward. She just kept passing the buck back to me, expecting me to make everything better while she plays the victim- how could I be so mean to her after everything she has done for me?!?!

After everything had happened I asked for space, the damage was just getting greater. By this point after the two conversations with her turning up, she had actually hurt me more than she had in the lead up to confronting it. So I backed off for my own sake.

I eventually text her and thanked her for the space and asked if she had, had any thoughts in the mean time on our relationship. No reply. She came to collect something from my house the following week and said that if I couldn’t answer that then she couldn’t and she hadn’t answered because she didn’t know what to say. I’ve to let her know if I want to have a chat.

I fully intended on going back to her again about the lack of effort and about my feelings but I’ve accepted now that there is no point. I was going to attempt partial contact but the difference in me, home life and my relationship when this was up in the air again was just so negative, it’s not what’s best for me and my little family unit.

Throughout this I’ve also had my family manipulated against me. The people who are talking to me constantly telling me to fix it. My brother hasn’t spoken to me even though he knows what she is like so I have no idea what’s been said. And I’m partly annoyed at myself for that because NOONE has been told the whole story and in me saying it’s between me and her and not sharing specific details, they already think I’m the bad guy, all I’m doing is protecting her further.

There is more I could say about personal circumstances but I think it’s best I don’t say anything that too identifiable. All I will say is that I have had a lot of trauma in my life for the last 21 years (I’m 29), I have no relationship with my other parent, my mum has no contact with another of my siblings (I have 2). I have huge struggles day to day for another reason too.

So I am now coming to terms with no contact. The realisations just keep coming. It is an emotional rollercoaster. Looking at your life and childhood and actually seeing it for the first time without denial being involved is just a massive kick in the gut.

It has brought up a lot of feelings stemming from childhood of being unlovable and uncared about. That I’ll never be good enough and am incapable.

I am trying my best to be nicer to myself. I feel like a fog has literally lifted and I feel happier and like an adult for the first time in my life (despite being a parent for nearly 9 years myself). I am trying to reassure myself and build myself up and not let guilt consume me. At times I feel stronger than ever before. My partner can tell I’m happier and brighter. I honestly cannot believe how miserable she was making me!

I still feel shocked. I never expected any of this to happen. I never expected her to not see it whatsoever, to victimise herself to the point that she doesn’t even see the fact this came from her actions in the first place. I feel shocked at other family members. I feel shocked that she would rather lose another child than deal with this properly or look at herself.

I suppose the biggest question I wonder is, is it ok to be ok? Or if I’m ok now is that some form of coping mechanism or denial that will come back to haunt me at a later date...

For now though I’m just trying to take things day at a time. Sometimes it just feels really lonely.

Thanks for reading.

Snuggly I'm sorry no one has replied to you post until now.
I just wanted to say Welcome and OMG I understood every word of your post. I think you have assessed things absolutely correctly and are very much on the right path. Well done 💐

Hi fc,
Don’t worry about it :)
Thank you for your reply and reassurance!
I find it so strange when you come online and read someone else’s story and you could literally have written it yourself yet that person is over the other side of the world!
The similarities in behaviour, things they say, things that happen just seems crazy to me.
It’s like there’s a little checklist they work through!
Coming online and finding forums and posts by other people has really helped bring some of it into focus for me.

I totally identify with you @snugglyhedgehog. It is like a script or a checklist for behaviours in these people. I’ve just come here myself to find support from people in similar situations. I’ve lurked and read an awful lot that rings so true about my relationship with my parent but am still struggling to get through a difficult flare up of problems at the moment relating to where boundaries should reasonably lie when care is needed for an ageing/disabled parent. Also what is reasonable in what a parent should expect from an adult child. I’ve lost the plot long ago with what is considered normal in adult parent/‘child’ relationships since I am not ‘allowed’ to function as an independent adult despite having my own children and being married for many years.
Current clashes are around:
How much care I ‘should’ be providing as a responsible daughter - I am falling short by a long way.

That I haven’t sought approval/permission/opinions before making major household purchases (for me, with my money)

I am considering a house move that would take us approximately 10 mins further away than we currently are as this is selfish and will cause me to be even less diligent with providing care and visiting.

Has anyone experienced similar issues? Am I being oversensitive/inconsiderate? Feel like a crappy daughter right now - struggling to see out of the FOG!

So glad I found this thread and it’s sad to see how families can be so destructive. The biggest cause of my own anxiety is my 69 year old mother that decided to start drinking again after 14 years of sobriety. She lies about it and is deceitful and has started to bring young men into the house who I’m sure are taking advantage of her.

My brother is also a raging alcoholic who is violent and lost his wife and two kids but says he isn’t bothered as he was fed up of them telling him what to do (I.e stay out of the pub). For my own sanity I’ve made the choice of not speaking to my brother and have also not had contact with my mother for a year. I see pictures of her on Facebook in pubs and in terrible states. The last time I spoke to her I begged for a reconciliation provided that she stopped drinking and she told me she wasn’t prepared to do that and give up on her drinking mates- but seemed quite happy not to have her own kids around.

My dad died almost 10 years ago and it makes me so sad to think how he would feel if he could see all this. I really have no clue what to do as I want my mum back but not the drunk, spiteful version of her that exists right now

Janandem how's it going with your DD?
I looked up Richard Grannon on but I couldn't find anything about the situation where they won't make contact, I'm sorry. It doesn't help knowing she's better off without him, does it? I would imagine that if you try and tell her what he's really like, she won't want to know - it's probably one of those ones where you're going to have to just be sympathetic, and wait for her to maybe start asking you questions. If I were you, at 15, I would tell her the truth if she asks for it though.

Lou you need to get your name off that joint account - you should be able to go into the branch and get them to take your name off it. You need to block your dad on FB, you need to get him off any emergency contact lists he might be on, and have a good think of any other way in which your lives are entangled because every time he gets the chance he comes back into your life and makes a ton of shite. He's not going to be a good grandpa - if he was, he would have by now, and to be perfectly frank he could act grandpa of the year, it still wouldn't be worth being in contact with him when he keeps treating you so badly. The money in his will I would just assume that you have no control whatsoever over whether it comes to you or not - whether he decides in the end to "be the better person" or to give it to the cat and dog home will come down to his whim. I can imagine it hurts, the feeling of being cut out - but look, you know he's a bad guy, being disliked by him is a badge of honour!

snugglyI wouldn't be surprised if your flying monkey family members know fine what your mother is like, and they're either conditioned by similar life experiences to enable people like her ("you know what she's like") or they're trying to get you back into role managing her so that she doesn't come and make their lives a bloody misery. Either way, with two other siblings already estranged, it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to think your mother is the common cause here. I think you should feel free to share whatever details you want with whomever you want, but equally, don't feel like you are obliged to give people explanations. You might not be able to convince some of them, and letting go of the hope that they would understand might be part of the recovery.
I think it's fine to be OK. Everyone's different... you might find that other stuff starts coming up for you, you might not. I found that going NC with my mother made very little difference to my day to day issues (I have a tendency to depression and I believe I have CPTSD, which I work around) but it was lovely not to have to deal with her any more.

InASarnie personally I think you're a saint for providing any care at all, if your past is similar to most of ours on here. I wonder whether your parents are in a position financially to pay for care? If so, I really think you should step back and limit yourself to what you want to do. It's not normal IMO for your parents to be angry that you made decisions about your own life by yourself and the house move thing is mad, I mean, 10 minutes... here's a question: would you expect the same level of control over your kids' lives once they are adults as your parents expect over yours? You feel guilty, but as you say, you're in the FOG, and the guilt feeling is not a good guide to what you should do here, IMO.

cloud I'm guessing you know about but just in case there's the link. That must be really hard. If you don't mind me remarking on this, it's interesting that you're anxious rather than sad - it suggests to me that either you're still trying to convince yourself that there's something you can do to change your mother's behaviour, or maybe it's just that her current behaviour is taking you back to childhood, when it would have been the anxiety of not knowing which mum (nice, sober one, or the drunk, spiteful one) you were going to get. For your own sanity you need to disengage, there's not a thing you can do to stop her drinking.

and to everyone, hope you're all doing OK. It's the school holidays right now and my kids are randomly really hard work again (I'm blaming it on the hot weather) so I probably won't be on on all that much in the next few weeks so enjoy your holidays and stuff folks and I'll see you in September

Toomuchtooold, I guess I am trying to hold on to the hope she’ll stop drinking as I’ve seen her do it 14 years ago so I know she can stop. Back then she was admitted to hospital with pancreatitis and told she wouldn’t live another year if she continued to drink. It was a wake up call and she attended AA and managed to stay sober. She then picked up a drink again and I’ve taken her to AA meetings and bent over backwards to help her but to no avail, she just wasn’t interested.

I gave her the ultimatum that I wouldn’t hang around if she continued to drink as her behaviour was appalling. She ended up getting in a fight in a pub and has been having young men in the house. I couldn’t put up with it any more and just can’t understand why she won’t quit for the sake of her family.

I’ve been reading through this thread and some of the links and she is 100% narcissistic personality. She is almost 70 but is pumped full of Botox and absolutely obsessed with how she looks. She also goes church x2 a week without fail which I’m sure is because she knows she’s done so much bad stuff and it makes her feel a little better about herself. She also loves the fact that the people at the church fuss over her and feed her ego.

Sometimes I think it’s terrible of me to walk away from my own mother but then I’ll hear snippets of what she’s been up to and how she is and she just makes me so angry. I just wish I could do something

I don't think you're terrible for walking away. I think you're doing the right thing. She won't stop drinking until she really wants to, and she won't want to until her life hits rock bottom. If you keep looking out for her, keep sorting out her messes, she'll keep drinking, and with a history of pancreatitis there's nothing she can do that's more dangerous than drinking. If you drop the rope there's more chance that she'll hit rock bottom while she can still recover. It must be very hard to watch though, I'm really sorry.

Cloud

It is not possible anyway to have a relationship with a narcissist. Its not your fault she is the ways she is and you did not make her that way.

It is not terrible at all to walk away from your mother; you have very good reasons for doing so and she is no mother to you in any sense of the word. Her primary relationship is with drink; its not with you and her thoughts centre around where the next drink is going to come from.

There are no guarantees here; she could go onto lose everything and everyone around her and she could still choose to drink afterwards. Help your own self, you cannot rescue and save someone who ultimately does not want to be saved. Attend Al-anon meetings; they will help you no end.

Does anyone on this thread know anything about cancer diagnosis??
My narc mother's friend called today and nothing she says made sense

I'm a nurse, but wondering if grades/stages have changed since I was in practice