"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi all, I have been reading this thread and feel so much kinship and solidarity towards you all! I often feel silly for caring so much about my DM and other people don’t understand the extent of the anxiety that even one dirty look can bring, so it’s nice to meet people who get it. I am sorry you are struggling though.

For what it’s worth here is my story: my DF is a complete mess, manipulative, cruel and I’m sure has undiagnosed NPD with some ASD traits thrown in. My parents separated 15 years ago. I have been NC with DF for 5 years, my DM the same and my sister has bare minimum contact. It has been really good for me and I have no regrets there.

However my relationship with DM is more complicated. She has always been the decent parent and I feel like I owe her a lot. She supported me and my education and goals and helped me financially as well as driving me around. I do care about her and love her but she also drives me mad! I don’t know how much of her problems are due to DF’s emotional abuse over many years or how much is just her personality. She lives alone and gets lonely, though she works part time and has many friends and activities. I think much of the loneliness stems from the “perfect life” that she likes to project to the outside world - I think she’s terrified of letting people see the truth. Only my sister and I know. She is very anxious and gets depressed, craves contact and support and also likes to feel needed. This was easier to deal with when I was younger because if I called her frequently she was happier. However I am almost 30, I live with my DP, I have a professional job and work 60 hours a week and I just don’t have that much time (or inclination) to call her every few days. Each call lasts 2 or more hours!

DP and I are getting married in a few weeks and she has definitely been worse since the engagement, says she’s “losing me” and that I “don’t need her any more” - I think it would be more strange if I did need my mother all the time at my age! She says she is “experiencing a bereavement” ...

I feel a lot of guilt about her loneliness and I do feel like a bad daughter. Her relationship with my sister is strained and I am the main point of contact. However she treats me badly, puts me down and makes me feel inadequate all the time. This has been particularly apparent during wedding planning and she has really ruined it for me. If she upsets me I try to be honest with her, I hate her policy of sweeping things under the rug (another part of the “perfection projection”) but she just gets offended that I am upset and tells me how much I have upset HER and I end up apologising to HER! Madness! She tries to micromanage me and gives me her opinion on everything, and has no issue with telling me how many of my choices are wrong. DP and I are paying for the wedding so really don’t know why she’s thinks she gets a say. I have stopped telling anything about what we are planning which also resulted in her feeling “shut out” - can’t win!

I am getting quite worried about the wedding. She doesn’t do well in social settings, gets very nervous and drinks. She is prone to offend people. She can be casually racist I have done as much damage control as I can - all my bridesmaids know and will keep an eye and my MIL is fab and I have also talked to her about it.

Sorry for the long thread I just don’t have any friends who have messed up parents and my DP also doesn’t get it at all.

If anyone has any thoughts about how I can enjoy my wedding and not stress about my DM all day that would be amazing!

seventy congratulations, and I hope you have a fab day! It is horrible to have to be alert for any problems on what should be your special day, and it sounds like you have briefed your bridesmaids and other supportive guests well. Could you give your Mum a job to do on the big day which would give her something to focus on?

I’d suggest some fairly minor task which won’t matter if she messes it up, but also make sure that she directs any queries to eg. one of the bridesmaids rather than you. Don’t give her the chance to criticise the rest of your plans, but say how the job she’s doing will mean a lot to you... (ask her to keep an eye on an elderly/infirm relative during the day? Makes her feel important, although it does seem a little unfair on the poor relative)

Hi everyone

I will say that I was loved as a child and my parents had my best interests at heart. BUT:

Their idea of what was best for me were things which made me feel very anxious, fearful and uncomfortable. Also very ashamed.

I was just on a thread in chat about Injustices we remmeber from years back which we still are bitter about or hurt by and some memories came to mind. Little things like once when I asked for water (we were out somewhere and used to carry water bottles- I was 4 or 5 I think) and I asked for water but I forgot to say "please." My father was in a bad mood (he used to get angry at us and often screamed at us or threatened us if we made mistakes. he was esepcially vile to my mother and I used to worry he might seriously harm her one day) and he was like "throw it at her, she did not say please." I was very bad with boundaries as a child and soemtimes would talk not realising other people were tired or I was not supposed to speak and then I would get yelled at and made to feel bad. I never knew what mood my Dad was going to be in.

When I grew up into my teens I got a bit chubby and my dad would make fun at me and if i cried he would get angry and tell me to eff off. Or tell me I was too sensitive. When I developed mental health issues and self harming I was accused of faking it and was told I was an embarassment to the family and a fat lazy slob. My sister and mother and I were scared of him. He could also be lovely, and not a nasty person, but I have been left feeling some of the way he behaved was wrong.

He did not hit us really but often threatened to hit us or worse. He did kick me once because he overheard me on the phone to a friend talking about my mental health, and he told me I must not do that.

back that sounds awful, especially if you never knew when he was going to kick off, or what his reaction would be. It also seems like you are minimising a lot (he did not hit us really)

No wonder you have been left feeling some of it was wrong.

aliasjoey Thanks. There was a lot fo threatened physical violence though, even with weapons and it was scary. I know he is no monster but it is the invalidation and constant put downs from him which I am finding hardest now to cope with.

Seventy I am pretty sure my DF has ASD issues undiagnosed also and maybe depression as well. Very bad rages and mood swings, expresses idea of suicide a lot. My DM is like yours in the neediness, I am guessing because DF has isolated her and the few friends she has do not know anything about the abuse. I always feel guilty for not being able to be there enough for her. My health is poor and I am very busy just trying to get well and survive these days.

Well I’m nearly at the end of our holiday, and am so grateful I decided to get an Airbnb. I don’t leave til 10am, come back for an hour during the day and then return about 9pm. I couldn’t have managed without this downtime.

Mum and I have had a row at least once every day... very minor things, but it really does make me regress to my childhood and feel angry and frustrated. My daughter told me that I was great at standing up for myself, which was nice to hear - but the energy that goes into avoiding an argument or winning one, or even just trying not to engage at all - it is exhausting.

On the whole I do feel I’ve come out of this with dignity and confidence, but it shouldn’t have to be such hard work...

Hello
I'm looking for support as I try to deal with the trauma from my childhood. I don't really know where to start. I had the appearance of loads of parents (mum, dad and step parents) but they were all so awful.

I don't really understand why but when I was a child and something bad happened to me I would never tell my mum. E.g I accidentally poured boiling water from the kettle on my hand when I was about 10. I didn't tell my mum until hours later when I was in bed as she kept asking why I looked sad.

I tried to kill myself when I was 14. I took about 15 paracetamol. I remember vomiting stomach bile. I didn't tell anyone what I'd done. I just wondered if I'd die each day. It was over New Years. Even though I'd been sick my mum and step dad went out on NYE as did my sister. I was in the house alone apart from my step sister who was in her 20s (she didn't live with us) and her friends. I just remember going to bed with them all laughing and having fun and me feeling so ill and alone.

I suppose I have very few memories of my early childhood. I remember my mum screaming at my dad for more money. I remember dreading seeing my dad. I remember hearing my mum crying in the night about having no money and my sister comforting her. And me feeling useless. This was before she married my very wealthy step father. He is dead now. She is not.

I know this is rambling and makes no sense. It's just that today I lost it again and I realised I need therapy. I have a baby now and my mum is too much in my life.

I've seen this thread before and I know I need people who understand. I can't easily explain to people why I was so unhappy and I think that is part of the problem. It wasn't physical or sexual abuse.

But really my mother is not maternal or nurturing at all. I stupidly thought it would be ok with her helping with childcare. What a mistake. My wonderful DH and I are now working out how to end this.

Sorry, this post is impossible to reply to. I need somewhere to explore what happened to me.

Hi all!

I was very bad with boundaries as a child and sometimes would talk not realising other people were tired

back, that's totally normal behaviour for a kid. It's only dysfunctional families that expect you to be able to read other people's minds. I wonder, when you did talk to your tired father, did he apologise to you for not listening? Were they like "I'm a bit tired back sorry, can you tell me later?" Or was it more like "stop bothering me, can't you see I'm tired, what's wrong with you, you're so inconsiderate" etc?

One of the hallmarks of dysfunction is adults being able to act like children (expect to get their way, blame others for their emotions) and the children having to act like adults (always behave the way others expect, take notice of the adults' minute to minute emotional state and manage it). It sounds like there was a lot of that in your house. You walked in eggshells. There wasn't a lot of physical abuse (although kicking you for talking about your mental health is pretty bad) and this perhaps makes it harder for you to see it as "really abuse". But the truth is, your dad didn't need to hit any of you, because you were all scared enough of him that you would do what he wanted without him having to so much as raise his voice.
You're right to focus on your own health. You can only do what you can for others, you need to look after yourself first and foremost. I wonder if your mum is like my dad. I loved him to bits and I would have loved to have been able to help him get away from my mum but I realized at some point that he didn't want to change, if he left he would have to be responsible for himself for the first time and he didn't want to do it. Maybe if he'd been younger. But when we met up he was content just to be able to complain about my mother and feel validated. He would never make the next step to leaving. He was physically and emotionally abused by his utter psychopath of a father and my mother represented safety and order, in a way.

Been a lurker on this thread for months but struggling today. I've had a thread about my 'd'm recently. Essentially after weeks on Nc we had to see each other on Friday. We got on well, no issues. She told me as I was leaving that my 'd'b (golden child and the cause of a lot of problems between us) was away all week. Hinting that she'd like to see me, so I suggested bringing dinner to her house for Saturday. She agreed.

Didn't hear from her all day yesterday. WhatsApp wasn't delivered. Then finally at 3pm I managed to get hold of her. Tried to confirm plans and she told me she was having dinner with her partner now her partner is an arse who has groped me twice and I refuse to be in the same room as him. She denies all of it despite being present for both incidents.

It's a minor thing really compared to some of the shit she's pulled, but I can't help feeling she could/should have placed more importance (?) On building bridges with me. I guess she would have if she wanted to

I didn't rise to it, just wished her a nice evening. The cynic in me thinks she did it on purpose thinking her choosing him over me would make me kick off; I just couldn't be bothered. I'm just sad I guess.

Harriebo I wonder if you might have a tendency to dissociate (go off into your own world) when bad things happen - Pete Walker's website has information on the different responses to trauma, you might find it interesting. But yeah the lack of memories and inexplicable stuff suggest you were blanking stuff out.

Anyway from what you do remember, there's emotional neglect, definitely, and the parentification - you wanting to help and feeling useless. That's going to mess with a kid's head even outside of anything else. And the NYE thing - how miserable you must have been. That must have been so hard.
Regarding reducing contact, do you see it being difficult? With someone normal, you'd be able to do this without there needing to be a big scene. You'd tell your mother you wanted to get out to some baby groups and make some friends, or that you wanted to get your baby into a routine so you want to put her down to sleep alone in her own house, or whatever - and she'd either be fine with that or she'd slightly get the hump, but she'd try not to.let you see. If you get her not taking no for an answer, forcing you to be blunt, if she cries, if there's drama - then you know you're on firmly dysfunctional territory. I love a thing that Captain Awkward says - if the other person makes it awkward - let it be awkward. You should be able to reduce contact with a normal polite person without drama. If there is drama, it's not your fault.

Thanks so much for replying toomuchtooold.
Yes, I think I must've blanked out a lot of crap but I have a few vivid bad memories.

I think the NYE is one of these. My mum seemed to just think about her and my step dad. He was mean and a bully. I just remember being left on my own the whole time. Another time I'd set my jeans on fire (candle related accident!) and badly burnt a patch on my thigh. About the size of my hand. Obviousky could've been a lot worse. I had a friend staying over who told me to tell my mum...but she was in bed and basically just didn't get up. I went to the doctors at some point - i guess the next day. It was a terrible burn - huge blisters.

Thanks for the emotional neglect suggestion. That makes a lot of sense. I remember that I couldn't bring myself to tell my mum when I'd started my period or when I needed a bra. I concocted an elaborate plan where I stayed over at my friend's house when I got my next (second) period. So I told my friend who told her mum who told my mum! It's quite funny really but it shows how I couldn't talk to my mum. I remember walking half an hour to a big Tesco I think it was and buying bras for myself. Must've been 11 or 12 as it was before we'd moved in with my step father.

My mum is not all bad. She's self centred and selfish and childlike in a lot of ways. My DH and I both leave for work before 7 so she takes care of my DD 2 days a week as we leave too early to drop off the baby at a nursery. So my Mum is staying with us 2 nights a week. I always thought this may not work and it just isn't. I'm grateful for the help but I can't stand being reliant on her. And it is like having an oppressive presence in the house - if she's in a bad mood she sits in silence over dinner, she never ever offers to help tidy up after dinner but just takes herself off to watch tv while my DH and I tidy up and do bath and bed etc.

Anyway, DH and I know this isn't working so I think I'll resign asap and look for a job closer to home.

And in answer to your question, yes my mum is fucking awkward about everything. If I ask her to do something re. DD e.g not leave her sat in a dirty nappy cos I'll be home in 20 minutes, she can't just say yes, she has to be difficult and sulky.

I have so much anger inside me it's frightening. I have a doctor's appointment in a month where I plan to ask for a referral for therapy. Hope I don't chicken out.

Made myself feel worse felt guilty so sent my mum a couple of photos of my daughter and a brief message I'd been thinking of her. It's been2 days and no reply. Kick in the teeth don't know why I bothered. Unsure as to whether to send a Mother's Day card now

That's an awful position to be in, @Harriebo having to rely on your mum like that, and very unhealthy for your DD. Hopefully with therapy you'll find a solution to this.

Sometimes it takes someone from outside the home to point things out that you can't see yourself. We had social services involvement a year ago and our social worker interviewed my mum. She said it wasn't safe to rely on her for childcare as she wasn't able to understand what she'd done wrong in our childhood that left us open to abuse. So we try to avoid it but it's not entirely possible not to involve her as our DDs have a close relationship with her and we don't really have other childcare options.

It's so hard, isn't it?

Update on my situation, I have therapy with a trauma psychologist lined up, starting on 22nd March. I really need that, as I have no strength left, the whole thing has worn me down so much. And I'm struggling with my eating disorder again, so I'm in a difficult place.

We have survived the holiday without killing each other, and I am so glad to be back home! She was still winding me up even as we were leaving, at 6am in the airport we’re having a stupid row over luggage (seriously, why does it matter ?! Why does one person have to be proved ‘right’ and the other person ‘wrong’ ? I think she does have low self esteem, and feels like she has to belittle or question others to make herself feel better. )

Usually I just ignore, but at 6am and nervous about the flight I did lose my temper and snap at her. I just don’t get WHY it has to be so difficult? If I disagree with someone, unless my opinion is asked I just keep my mouth shut. Not continuously badger and bait them so they end up feeling defensive.

Never mind, it’s over and with any luck I won’t have to go through that again for a while.

Thanks for the support lizzie. My DD at least enjoys being with her grandma.

And I think I do want her involved to some extent - but it's too intense at the moment though. A few hours a week would be ok but I need for my mum to not stay with us. That's too much.

I saw a therapist a few years ago and we came up with a list of safe topics that I could discuss with my mum. Basically anything that she couldn't be negative about and upset me. It was so sad - there was hardly anything on it...make up, clothes I think. But all the real stuff of life - relationships, career etc we decided I could not safely discuss. Anyway, i need to remember this.

I hope my gp will refer me. I paid for therapy before but I can't afford it now.

Good luck with your trauma therapy lizzie. I'm sorry you are having a hard time at the moment. Be kind to yourself.

Harriebo

I would end her childcare arrangement asap (she being self centred and childlike is bad). Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she could in turn do not too dissimilar emotional harm to your DD. She failed you by failing to protect you from her H's abuses of you all.

And what toomuchtooold wrote earlier in her posts to you.

Your boundaries re your mother are ones of enmeshment that your mother has herself cause and she is too much in your life. A good rule of thumb here is that if you find a relative is too toxic or otherwise difficult to deal with, its the same deal for your child too. Your DD may enjoy being with her grandma for now but it may well be different further down the line when she further develops opinions of her own.

Re therapy BACP are good and do not charge the earth; I would seek this again because NHS waiting lists for such are very long and can be too limited in terms of number of sessions and scope.

Sounds like your therapist suggested grey rock technique with your mother; that works but it can be very exhausting in its own right.

NC here and struggling so a bit pathetic atm.
So the work I have done in helping me realise that the abuse I suffered from my parents was not my fault has brought up something else.
Namely the way my husband and his parents, particularly his mother, treated me and how stupid I was in trying to get her to like me - giving her my money, things of mine she admired even gifts I had been given, sending letters she didn’t respond to etc etc.
She was very, very critical of me constantly saying hurtful things like telling me I was a bad unnatural mother. Husband always said I was overreacting, making it up and trying to cause trouble despite the fact I never responded to her. She treated my SIL the same way.
So I have been manipulated by him all my life.
Stupidly I tried to talk to him which unleashed a torrent of abuse. I deserved everything I got from my parents and then set out to destroy his family and caused great unhappiness to his mother. Not quite sure how except by marrying her baby.
Yes he is in and always has been in FOG. Much worse since he retired. Now has time to look at photos of them, write about his wonderful childhood, visit their graves. His brother is the same.
Basically they were brainwashed.
So now he hates me yet again, won’t have anything to do with me. I am stuck in one room. If I come out it causes trouble. Even trying to cook myself a meal I got shouted at for using the wrong pan. If I turn on the tap I am wasting water. Can’t go out unless he takes me, and he won’t as he hates being with me, as too ill, can’t walk, can’t drive.
Can’t leave as there is a child involved. He says he cannot be forced to sell the house as it is the child’s home. There is no other money.
So I am stuck. It is bad enough being called a burden and parasite by him and I will not inflict that on my children. There is no one else.
So sorry but am feeling quite hopeless and helpless atm. I sent an email to an organisation for abuse survivors a month ago but only got an acknowledgment and no reply. I can’t phone as he would hear me.
Perhaps I am really mad, stupid, selfish, self centred, and horrible as he says. I don’t know anything anymore. It is hard to know anything when you never go anywhere or speak to anyone.
So sorry for my self pitying ranting.
I feel like the woman in the Yellow Wallpaper except there is no wallpaper in this room.
God i’m an idiot.

Whistler

Its not you; its your parents and now H who have conditioned you into at all accepting this as your lot in life now. He has made you a prisoner of his own paranoid making.

You married a man who was out of the same sort of toxic mould as your own parents. They taught you how to be abused and as a result they taught you a lot of damaging lessons on relationships.

You are now a prisoner within your own home. Your child knows this and that things are not good between you and their dad. The fact that this is the child's home is irrelevant; its no home for this child and this child is seeing you being abused on a daily basis.

It is for your sake as well as your child's that you must leave your abusive H and make a new life for yourself without him in it. Its easy for me to write that but there is no other option for you going forward.

Would you want your child to learn that this sort of relationship is normal. No you would not. That young person cannot afford to learn such damaging lessons on relationships.

When he next leaves the house leave and make your way to a police station or go to a neighbour. They can and will help you. At the very least please call Womens Aid whilst he is out of the house; they will also help you.

harriebo that’s so sad about the safe topics - and I know exactly what you mean. I try and avoid conversation with my mother, I’m sure she must think I’m being snobby or rude, but it’s just easier.

It reminds me that when I first met DH I was awful - abrasive, argumentative, sulky... this was all behaviour I learned growing up, and I thought it was normal. Now, I hate anything like that, will get upset if the kids are quarrelling, and avoid confrontation.

And yet... (it’s been on my mind since we got back off holiday) I keep thinking that I can totally understand why she is the way she is. My daughter is only 14, nearly the age my mum fell pregnant, had to drop out of school, get married. My DD is sitting exams, and blushing over boys. She is a child

Hi aliasjoey, it is sad. My problem is I slip up and slip in to "unsafe" territory and that's even harder now I have a baby.

That must've been so tough for your mum. I completely understand. While not minimising my experience, I get that my mum was in a very difficult situation when I was very little. She was a working single mum with not much money and my dad was mentally ill. It must've been horrendous. I think I find my experience after she remarried less forgiveable as then money wasn't a problem and she didn't work for a while. But I was pretty much ignored and my step dad's needs and wants took priority.

Sounds like we're similar in that we want a relationship with our mothers but we need to stop it being destructive!

Thank you attila.
It isn’t my child but GC. I really am not well enough to look after him and he wouldn’t go anywhere with me.
I do agree that what he is learning is not good but I need to stay here. It would be too disturbing for him if I left. He has too much to deal with already.
I really feel I have no other option. I will not recover. Making a life for myself would be, at best, living alone in very, very small accommodation, unable to go out and dependent on my children which I refuse to be.
Lived abroad for so long my pension is 10p a week.
I think I just need to toughen up. I can do but sometimes don’t cope very well with shouting after constant verbal and physical abuse from my parents.
This all came about because my sister died and I was made aware of how she spent so much of her life trying to get affection from our mother. I felt so sorry for her, didn’t blame her at all for the way she was treated and then had a sort of ‘road to Damascus’ moment when I realised that I had also not been at fault.
I have applied for some online counselling. Maybe I should contact the abuse survivors place again. It is something like NARC.

Whistler just a thought - would you be able to get respite residential care? Just to get away for a few days?

Hello everyone, I've posted a couple of times on other boards on this subject but feel like I might belong in here with you all, I've been lurking for a while and seen some great advice.. maybe I will also find I can also contribute to the discussion with situations others are facing.

A brief history:
Aggressive alcoholic father who has suffered from chronic pain since I was a toddler. Hit my mother when they were together, emotional abuse, police called to our house regularly when I was a child/teen, he would go round to his estranged brother's house and shout outside and frighten his children. There were numerous manipulative suicide attempts (most traumatic was the one where he did it so I found him when I got in from college aged 17).

During my parents acrimonious divorce he became involved with a lady who had a serious mental health condition (he met her when he was sectioned after one of his suicide attempts) and he moved straight from the family home into her council flat and got his name put on the deeds. He calmed down a lot during this stage and for a few years was an ok enough dad, there were a few blips where he was drinking too much. My first child was born and we would regularly visit. Eventually his relationship deteriorated as he was slapping this poor lady, it then emerged that she has actually committed infanticide a few years back and he'd kept this info a secret from my husband and I. We were visiting with the baby a fair bit and she was regularly deciding not to take her medication so we had a falling out for a while. We felt we should have had the information on the seriousness of the condition while we were taking our son over there. During this time he made another half arsed suicide attempt to draw me back in. Then he more or less forced the woman out of the council flat so he had it for himself, I wasn't in the picture much at the time due to the stress of it all but I presume she wasn't well enough to fight him for it. I feel bad that I couldn't get involved but I was becoming very ill with it all.

Fast forward to now, he is 74, in chronic pain, popping tons of painkillers, pretty much disabled and can only walk with a frame, diabetes probs and incontinence etc. He's had a recent stay in hospital where I've been running around doing endless things for him (I'm the only child and only family member who was speaking to him) and he's treated me like absolute shit. Daily rants, texts, 4 angry voicemails a day about hospital things that are out of my control. Hospital tests are all clear for dementia etc and tbh honest he has had so many of these Vile spells over the years I doubt it's illness.

I've repeatedly asked him to treat me with respect and not to bombard me with rants while I'm at work (responsible shiftwork job) but he just got worse.

It culminated in a big row where he rang me up and screamed at us that he was going to kill himself (because he didn't like the time the carer was coming). I blew up because my 11 year old son heard and was frightened. I said I wasn't going to tolerate my children hearing his suicide threats. After I hung up the phone he texted me that he was suicidal because my mum had asked him to sexually abuse me when I was a kid. This is a total lie and left me in an absolute tailspin - told work which was good as I'm now having counselling and will even get some EMDR to work on the trauma of the suicide attempt where I found him at the age of 17.

The only contact we've had since (6 weeks or so) is I text him to try and set a boundary, said I wanted to talk about why we can't let the kids be hearing the suicide threats and nasty allegations. He replied saying he doesn't want any contact with any of us again and he hasn't done anything wrong... my problem is that I can't cope with my job and I don't see my husband enough.

All this...and whilst the silence is an enormous relief... at times I'm beating myself up with guilt. But I just haven't the energy anymore. Ive always tried to be patient with him as he is so unwell these days but my tank is empty.

Sorry this is so long but I'm struggling today. Just hoping the EMDR helps - I feel like I'll never be happy.