"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's December 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@alias this thread is too long for me to have read the whole thing so I don't know your history, but I do know the dread of going on any "holiday". (My mother has recently been insisting on enforced togetherness; she says, "before I die". Urgh. I hasten to add she is in robust health and not all that old.) Good luck. I hope it goes well.

I also relate to your comment about understanding (at least in part) why your mother is how she is. My mother's mother was a grim and abusive woman to her, and to us, her grandchildren. From what I can tell, this is a long history throughout the generations. The fact that it is no surprise is of course no comfort, and makes it impossible to have it out with her because of all the "excuses" available. It also adds to my resentment, because I think "you know what this is like, and yet you do it anyway".

@cjferg - my Dh is blamed for withdrawal too. Mother spat out that they were "the wrong name now" in our last exchange. They all just need someone else to blame otherwise they have to accept that they are dysfunctional too. And my parents are of the generation where everything gets swept under the carpet.

@minisoksmakehardwork

Yes I never remember any family rows or anything, even when parents split up they stilll lived together happily for a few years for some reason, can't have been as healthy a family as I thought. It was all hunky dory until I started kicking up shit.
It's so crap because I love my husband so much and he has had to deal with all this shit from quite soon after we got together. Plus the fun task of helping me see sense. We almost broke up so many times and I would have just snapped back to ignoring everything just so I didn't have to deal with it like my mum.

alias and choc I have also been trying to understand why my parents were the way they were. They both told me how they were perfect children and had wonderful relations with their parents. So big denial there. Especially from my mother who was the instigator of the abuse.
Looking back I can see many things in their parents’ backgrounds, and even further back - I’ve done some work on the family tree that helps, which possibly, or probably, created generations of disfunctional parents.
What I will never be able to understand is why my parents thought it was OK to behave the way they did. They were quite well educated, not poor so middle class, had no hardships in their lives, so I think I will always find it hard to come to terms with what they did.
If their abuse to me happened now I would certainly be taken into care with all the repercussions for them.
I was not, and am not, a perfect parent but the best I can be. My children are able to talk to me if they feel I am wrong. They owe me nothing.
Despite still being embroiled in the way my parents treated me I knew what they did was wrong and never had any inclinication to treat my children the same way. Why didn’t my parents know that ?
toomuch this thread is amazing and I thank you so much for it.
I’ll keep thinking and reading.

Hiya!
smiling, *aliasjoey, you're both very lovely to say that but just to say it's not my thread, I just showed up here three years ago and never left! I was lucky to receive some excellent advice from attila (hello!) and most of my stuff got sorted then, and I'm just interested in people's stories and especially the way that people often give away what is most bothering them in offhand remarks or just the way they talk about things. I am well chuffed if my comments are helpful

cj congratulations on your pregnancy! It sounds as if you've come a long way from your childhood, and things are going well. I think regarding repeating your mother's mistakes, it's really good that you're aware of that possibility. Childhood abuse does make parenting harder in one way or another - most of us come out of it not being very good at handling stress, possibly with complex trauma to deal with and having learned to feel ashamed of our anger and sadness.
The best thing IMO is to keep working on your own recovery, keep having those insights, and then the parenting I think will come naturally. Are you doing therapy? If you can I would really recommend finding a therapist just now, even if you can only go say once a month or so - having someone familiar with your issues to talk to once the baby comes I think could be really helpful. You don't really know what's going to come up for you until the baby is here.

It's interesting what you guys are saying about school and school marks and stuff - I remember my mother being high as a kite on narcissistic supply when she used to go to my school parents' evenings, but at some point she must have copped on to the fact that I was about to finish school with some decent qualifications and get out of her clutches, so she created a massive drama and made me dump my boyfriend during the middle of my exams. She was too late though, I'd seen the light at the end of the tunnel, and I passed all the exams and started seeing him again once I was at uni. I was really lucky.
It's funny though, when I was doing therapy I remember early on mentioning my mother's interest in me being "brainy" and the therapist sort of nodded knowingly. And then later I told her I have a science PhD and she was kind of like "oh you actually are a bit of a prodigy then". I wonder if that's a common trope with narc parents, You Are A Special Child With A Mission In This World. Like Disney;s Rapunzel, or also like in Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit. Hrm.

alias you have my deepest sympathy. It's like, with normal people you can say "I'm just going to hang out on my own for a few hours" and they're like "cool, I'm going to go into town/have a bath/do shit that I know you're not that fussed about" but in our fake perfect families everyone has to want to be together all the time, and any request for alone time or any minor disagreement or anything is a total disaster and an affront to their fragile self esteem. It's exhausting. How long is she coming for, not long I hope.

Thanks toomuch really, I feel lucky compared to some people as I was able to have therapy when I was younger, and mostly I can handle Mum okay. Also she’s not as bad as some of the parents on here, and I know that she genuinely loves me and means well.

My therapist once said to me “Your mum tried her best. It wasn’t always enough. Those two statements can both be true at the same time.” And that helped me see that it’s okay to accept what seems like a contradiction - that someone can love you, yet still not manage to give you everything you need.

I’m always going to feel guilty, but I’ve learned to live with that As to what a previous poster asked ‘why do our parents repeat the mistakes of their own parents?’ I can only think it is because nowadays there is a lot more information out there, when my mum had us there wasn’t much in the way of therapy or self-help books; even Mumsnet teaches me so much! Whereas Mums education pretty much stopped when she was 16, she went straight from living with her parents to being a wife and mother.

I do feel sorry for her. I can pity and resent her at the same time. The cognitive dissonance that goes on in my head is exhausting.

H-day minus 10. (The H stands for Holiday. Or Hell.)

DH told me just to book an Airbnb and stop fretting. I have to admit that does sound sensible (just thinking about it makes me feel better and more in control) although I’m worried my sister might be hurt but it would be a relief.

Also, when I mentioned it , she then suggested staying at my brothers place... but if that was an option I don’t understand why nobody mentioned it before.

. My sister gave me letters her children have written to mine.

I have just opened them and they're actually Xmas cards, with words like be nice or you're on the naughty list', 'chill out' and 'don't get your tinsel in a twist' emblazoned across the front.

Obviously these can be seen one of two ways, if you consider it's not actually Xmas but my sister has given them the cards to write and the writers are 7 and 11, not quite old enough to understand to pointed words on the front.

Needless to say they have been binned.

By next year I might be able to take them in a jovial manner. But right now, given her expectation that I speak to our parents and apologise, that isn't going to happen.

I've also seen the old "it's very sad when family don't talk, affect on the cousins, grow up" shite shared by a family member.

Lots to ponder attila and toomuch thank you for your responses.

Over and over again I catch myself thinking ‘ffs Can you not just be normal and pretend to get along?’

It’s recently occurred to me that perhaps my problem is not my mother, but maybe more my father than I thought. We ended up at some sort of family therapy session a long time ago with a big chair, s small chair in the corner and a fancy chair in the middle and invited to choose a seat. I wish I’d chosen a chair outside and said leave me out of this.

It’s helpful writing it down and to see I’m not alone. Forced into particular roles is an interesting idea.

I did it! Booked a cheap room somewhere, apologised to my sister (feel really bad about her being stuck in the middle of this nonsense) and have taken back control!

It was just stressing me out too much. I was so looking forward to the holiday. When I was 17 I left home, moved to another city, decided that wasn’t far enough away and then moved to another country Moved 10 times in 18 months – I did get tired of living out of suitcases, but on the other hand for the first time in my life I felt free and independent. One of my happiest memories is taking a train somewhere for the day, being on my own and self-reliant (this was before the phobia of missing a train/flight kicked in) So when I mentioned about catching a bus from the airport and my mum immediately said “I’ll come and pick you up” – note she didn’t even ask first – I felt like screaming ‘you are suffocating me!’

Am veering between pleased I stood up for myself and worrying about the inevitable consequences...

it's very sad when family don't talk, affect on the cousins

Oh god, I wish we had an eyeroll emoji. Yeah, like the cousins are going to be so gutted they can't come round her house and have her be passive aggressive to their faces.

ffs Can you not just be normal and pretend to get along

Ooh, you might like
this piece about someone dealing with a difficult family member. I love this line, regarding (not) keeping the peace:

Keep this in mind: It was always that awkward… for you. Other people were willing to let it be that awkward…. for you….for the sake of “keeping the peace.” You don’t owe them the gift of silently accepting that role forever. It is okay to “ruin” a dinner party or two if someone is constantly browbeating you

toomuch wow, that is a fantastic article! By trying to ‘keep the peace’ for everyone else, I’ve actually ruined my own peace of mind. Why should my feelings be put last?

(I’m still scared of the fallout)

I'm struggling really badly today. Feel overwhelmed, angry and alone. My husband would listen to me talk about it all if I needed to but I can tell it gets him down and I don't blame him. I don't want to burden him with my problems the way she burdened me. My Gran and Grandad who absolutely adored me and are the reason I turned out ok are both dead. And she has turned the only blood relatives I have left against me. I know I have my MIL but it's not the same. Currently sitting in Starbucks trying to choke back the tears. I despise her for letting me down so badly. Why have a child if you don't have the capacity to love it? I hope she's fucking miserable.

Can I join you please? I have posted on an earlier thread (different username) but not been back for ages.

I won't go into my (huge) backstory right now because I have to go out soon, so lack the time it will take and also don't want to go out with a tear stained face - which I know I will.

For now, my current problem is my parents health. My father has dementia and is also disabled so cannot get about very well. He is also incontinent. My mother is currently in hospital. When she comes home she will not be able to go back to doing all that she did before for my father, and will probably need help herself.

One of my siblings lives close to them and is wearing herself out looking after dad and visiting mum. sibling will not accept carers coming in as she thinks parents will end up in a care home. Other sibling lives 10 minutes away from them and does as little as possible (parents favourite child). Third sibling is NC with our parents and the sibling currently doing most of the care.

The thing is, there is a largish age gap between myself and them (I am the oldest) and they were all still at primary school when I left home to get married at 16 (huge back story) and are unaware of how I feel or how differently I was treated to the 2 siblings still in contact with our parents. The one who is NC has mental health issues but has volubly complained that he wasn't loved by our parents as much as everyone else, which is partly why now they are NC. I was never courageous enough to speak out.

I have stupidly never stood up for myself and have just accepted the unequal treatment for all my childhood and adult life (I am early 60's now). But I can feel things coming to a head due to the medical problems with our parents. I cannot bring myself to give up what life I have left to help make my parents comfortable for the rest of theirs. But in not doing my share I will have to say why....and i dont know how to. Nor do I think I would be believed. I will just in their minds, be proving I absolutely am the selfish person my parents have always said I am.

Part of the problem is also that my father now looks exactly like his father did when I was pre teenage and when he was sexually abusing me. So even without the other stuff, the thought of doing any form of personal care for him is abhorent to me and makes me feel physically sick.

Please help me know what to do

on that sounds so hard for you. Have you had any therapy to help you come to terms with it all?

all I just wanted to say that you don’t actually have to say why you’re not helping out. Let’s face it, even if you did give a reason they might decide it’s not a ‘good enough’ excuse, or they might come back with arguments as to how to work around it. So you’d end up getting defensive.

Maybe come up with a rehearsed line and don’t get into any further details. Eg.

“Sorry, I won’t be able to do xxxx. I can do zzzz instead if that would help.”
“Why can’t you do xxxx? We’re having to do it all, you should help!”
“I won’t be able to do xxxx. If you can’t manage, we could look at outside help?”
“We need you to do xxxx!”
“I can’t do xxxx. Do you need some help with yyyy?”
“Why can’t you do it, you should do it!”
“Sorry, I can’t do it, let me know if you need any help with yyyy. Goodbye!”

If necessary have it written down and just read it out

I'm on a waiting list to see a counsellor. I've done it in the past and it helped but it was through my employer and I only got 6 weeks free which wasn't enough. Can't afford to pay for it myself. So I have to go on a waiting list and then make a donation I can afford when a space becomes free. Some days I feel great. Was reading a bit about NPD earlier and it seemed to trigger bad feelings in me today. I'm home again now with my son and my husband and the feeling is passing. It's great to be able to just vent on here and say exactly how I'm feeling without being judged.

@AllThatIAm - are you close to the siblings who are still in contact with your parents? I get the feeling not, but you haven't said. Are you perhaps hoping to improve relations with them after your parents pass on? If the answer is "no" to both questions then have a think about why you feel the need to justify the level of your involvement in the care to your siblings. Does it really matter if they now see your actions as proof of their (misplaced) negative views of you?

On3mor I'm sorry to hear that things are so hard right now. It sounds like you're right in the throes of mourning your relationship with your mother and your wider family, and you're cycling between anger and sadness. Daft though it sounds, I think that is the right place to be: you have to get through those emotions, it would be weird if you didn't feel that stuff at this point. It can't be easy though.
Regarding your wider family, I think this is one of the crap side effects of any sort of crisis or difficulty, that you learn who your friends are and who they aren't. There are people who'll drop you at the first hint of trouble, and it's OK saying "oh well they were fair weather friends" but the thing is, it is nice to have a whole bunch of people in your life, extended family, neighbours, acquaintances - the people who just know you for years, and maybe you're never going to become firmest friends but they're part of the fabric of your life. And it is a loss. I also wonder, I'm assuming your aunt and uncle are on your mother's side - however your mother got the way she is, the sibling who grew up in the same (dysfunctional) house is probably already well trained at keeping the peace with difficult people, whether that was your mother in childhood or one of their parents. It's cycle after cycle.

AllthatIam, I would second what aliasjoey said - you don't have to say why you're not helping out, and you don't have to actually have a reason either. I mean, your reason is compelling to say the least, but there are plenty of people who don't have reasons like that who still don't do this for their parents. It's a huge ask. I don't know if you have children, but if you do, how would you feel about them putting their lives on hold, for years, to care for you? Personally, I would be really bloody annoyed with my kids if they did it for me. I didn't spend all this time and effort having them and bringing them up so they can waste their best years looking after me.

I would also say, it looks to me like you are giving all the power to your siblings without maybe really realising it. Your sibling who is caring for your parents can (with your parents’ agreement) can refuse both care home and home visit carers, but if she wants you and your other siblings to get involved then she can’t make that decision for all of you. And you’re pinning all of this on being able to explain the abuse and emotional neglect to your siblings, and them believing you and understanding the effect that has, and “letting you off the hook” regarding care of your parents. When you say yourself that they are likely to buy into the “AllthatIam was always the selfish one” idea already pushed by your parents, and if they are planning on continuing to care for your parents without help long term then they already have a very strong motivation to disbelieve or minimise what you tell them of the abuse. Which is going to be a horrible experience for you in itself.
If I were you I would steer clear altogether of connecting your childhood experience with your refusal to do care. I think it would be very painful for you, and it also gives your siblings an “in” - indicating that you would do some of the care were it not for the childhood stuff. Just say no. aliasjoey’s lines are an excellent way of doing that. Will your siblings judge you? Probably, but they were probably going to anyway.

Hi, apologies for the long post, I'm not sure if I belong here, reading through a lot of the stuff about this I can see similarities between my experiences with my mother and to some extent my brother now, I'm not sure if he's been around my mum too much! I was wondering if anybody had experienced this sort of thing but then their sibling or siblings were treated in the total opposite way?
I recently had a baby and had to deal with a lot of stress during my pregnancy then after when my parents wanted to visit as soon as, I understood they were excited but I wanted some time to adjust with my DH and new baby, I ended up having them visit 20 hours after I gave birth, when they arrived I received a peck on the cheek and a well done and then the baby was snatched from my arms, which culminated in an argument between my DH and parents over when they and my brother could next see the baby. We asked them to delay their next visit by 12 hours so that my DH's parents could meet the new baby by themselves too which didn't seem unreasonable to us but my mum ended up in tears and was telling me that I was the selfish one for not allowing my brother to visit Saturday night and asking him to visit Sunday morning. When my parents then were asked to leave by the midwives we then got a call from my brother first to my DH where my brother yelled at him for 10 minutes until my DH hung up then to me where he told me he didn't care that I had just given birth and that I should put my family first rather than being selfish and putting my DH's family first. I managed to hold it together very well without crying or getting angry which I was very proud of! (At this point we also told my DH's parents to delay their visit. My parents also spent all their time whilst visiting taking photos of themselves with baby and pulling the curtain round the bed so I wasn't in the background of the photo which made me quite angry. They then visited the next week and spent the whole time again practically having a photoshoot with my baby never once asking if my DH and I wanted a photo with her and even now they haven't printed off any photos for my grandparents of my DH and me with our daughter but they've printed off all of the photos with my aunt, parents and brother in for them. The last argument we had was a few days ago when I asked my brother to postpone his stay over half term as we had just had people staying and baby was playing up a bit and my DH was going back to work so I hadn't had much of a chance of it just being me and DD and after having some problems bonding at the beginning I wanted to work on that bond between us without having to also entertain my brother. Both times my mum has been more concerned about my brother's feelings because he can't stay than my wishes and feelings.
I've always found it very hard to say no to my mum and have found since I have had a baby it is a lot easier to stand up to her as DD is the priority now so it's not just me I'm standing up to. She doesn't like when I say no to her and assumes it has come from my DH rather than me, in actual fact he has just given me the confidence to stand up for myself finally. My mum's response when I said that I had been walked all over when I was a kid was 'we don't need to see your assertive side because we never walked all over you.'
Iget very bizarre behaviour from my mum and one second she will be telling me what an awful person I am because I couldn't speak to my brother one evening, then I get a birthday card telling me I am a wonderful daughter! We're also dealing with my parents assuming we have a preference for my DH's parents, which I may do after my family's recent behaviour because DH's parents have been an amazing help with baby and understanding and supportive with us as well whilst my parents have been nothing but a problem every step of the way, as we allowed them to stay in the house once after baby was born because they have a dog and it's not easy for them to find other places to stay.
My mum seems to be obsessed with the fact that my brother and I only have each other when my parents are gone which is obviously not true as I know have my own family but can understand staying in touch with my brother however if he and my mum are going to continue behaving badly towards me I'm not sure I want them in my life! Apologies for the long post!

I've offended my DM, I think. Well, both DSis and I have done that. She's back from Africa for 2 weeks before going away again, and she was upset that we didn't tell her that we were going to stay with my DSis, BIL and our DDs' cousins. She said she would have liked to be there at the same time and to have travelled back with us. She would have enjoyed seeing all her grandchildren playing together, apparently.

But I knew that she was going to visit my DSis next weekend anyway! So why would I suggest if?? And she just won't take the hint that DSis and I find it hard to be around her. DSis told me that last time our DM was just so bossy, and she found her really triggering because of the past as well.

I hate the way she piles on the guilt. Why couldn't she just ask me how it went and enjoy hearing what we did? Why does she have to constantly make us feel guilty?

I've apparently also upset her because I didn't arrange any time for her to spend with my DDs during half term, apparently she told me before that she wanted to do that while she was back here. So now I end up feeling bad once again, though she's the one who chooses to go away to Africa!! And she's around next week, it's not like I've said that we won't arrange anything.

I've been having difficulties with DD1 (both DDs are adopted, she has Attachment Disorder, I have other things to think about besides arranging things to suit my DM!).

Sorry, rant over!

Hi, @adelul you definitely shouldn't feel that you don't belong here! I'm so sorry about the difficulties you're having with your family; it should be a happy time after having a baby, you shouldn't have to bend over backwards to keep them happy. They should be spoiling you and sharing your happiness, not making you change your plans!

You do what's right for your family, that is you, your DH and your baby, don't worry about anything else.

Thank you @Lizzie48, it's really lovely to have somewhere to talk about some of the things we have gone through with my family and to know I am not alone. I would never want to totally cut of contact with my family but their behaviour makes it extremely hard to know whether they deserve to be involved

@adelul I can relate. I didn't want visitors at the hospital when I had my daughter I suffer bad anxiety and wanted time to bond and introduce my daughter o family once I settled home. My mum fell out with me and said I was being cruel so I had to change my birth plan. Visiting time was at 2 but they set off at 7am (2 hour journey) and I was so upset as I wasn't ready if not slept all night and my daughter wasn't feeding. The midwife said they wouldn't be allowed in until 2 and when my husband explained this to them they said the ward would have to make an exception for them and I got so upset they weren't respecting my needs I felt really panicky and upset and it meant I had to stay in another night as they were worried about my mood. My own psychiatrist was furious as my birth plan was devised to avoid this. It still upsets me to this day.