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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Husband has has private lap dances...

342 replies

msevs · 08/12/2017 10:36

...and lied. I found out last Sunday after a weekend away with his mates, when a text came through on his phone. I glanced at it and it was from one of the guys with the words ‘strip club’ in it. I confronted him about it and he said some of the other guys went, but he didn’t. I didn’t believe him, he then said he had gone in but that was it. I told him to stop lying, and he then said “well you have to have a dance there, don’t you”. So basically it turns out he paid for a private dance, and not just this once, but on three different occasions. First time was Christmas trip last year, two months after the birth of our second child.

To make matters worse, we were only married a month ago. Three weeks later and he’s paying a woman to strip naked for him! I feel so betrayed. I heard all the excuses, he was drunk, it was peer pressure, he didn’t enjoy it. I don’t believe him, since he’s been three times. He told me he’d never have a ‘proper’ affair, as if I’m supposed to be grateful. He didn’t see this as a problem because it was a transaction. He did apologise and said he wouldn’t do it again, but this is only because I found out, otherwise I know he would just have continued doing it.

I feel so betrayed. I also feel like such a mug, I bet him and his mates have had a good laugh at the fact that I’ve been kept in the dark. He just isn’t the man I thought I married.

I don’t know why I’m posting. I just don’t know where to go from here. I was really looking forward to this Christmas as it was going to be our first Christmas as a married couple, but now I don’t even want to look at him Sad

OP posts:
Offred · 09/12/2017 13:01

You could say ‘toxic feminity’ causes harm to men women and children but feminity and things that are considered female are the ‘undesirable’ things that are left over after the things that are considered desirable have been ascribed to masculinity... That is why the phenomenon that encompasses negative and harmful beliefs about gender roles and beliefs that men and women perpetuate is called ‘toxic masculinity’ because what is toxic about it, at the heart of it, and why it causes harm to society whether it is men or women or children that perpetuate it, is that the belief is predicated on the idea that men (particularly heterosexual men) are superior and people who are not (heterosexual) men, or who have qualities or traits that are not associated with being the ideal man are other and by being other are inferior.

Offred · 09/12/2017 13:03

The reason being a gay man is considered undesirable is it’s perceived association with things that are considered to be female.

GirlDownUnder · 09/12/2017 13:15

And in other news

msevs if you’re still around, hope that you have some clarity and he’s stopped with the stfu.

It’s tough leaving, but I think in hindsight it’ll be tougher staying.

Wishing you 20/20

dogfish1 · 09/12/2017 14:00

star thanks for clarifying.

I agree the rape within marriage law was disgusting. My only point was that it's a while ago now. But similar laws continue in many other countries.

offred I don't think it's as straightforward as you describe. I agree there are differing expectations and people who do not conform are judged. But women who conform to those conventional markers (which beauty, fertility, emotional intelligence and a certain subtlety of communication) can achieve power and security in the same way that tall, decisive, intelligent men can.

I don't think these are "undesirable" things left over after masculinity has had its share. Anyone who thought Claire Underwood wasn't both extremely feminine, utterly ruthless and highly successful would be deluded.

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:07

can achieve power and security in the same way that tall, decisive, intelligent men can.

Research doesn’t support that position.

Society may deem women and men who conform to ideals based on gendered expectations acceptable but there is definitely still a problem with the pressure those gendered expectations place on both men and women which leads to, for (just one) example; men being under pressure to provide money and losing relationships with children and women being under pressure to provide care/domestic services and losing economic security...

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:11

And Claire Underwood is a weird choice btw, a fictional character whose power and influence is almost entirely conditional on who she is married to.

HandyAndy89 · 09/12/2017 14:11

massive over reaction, he lied to basically save your feelings. A private dance is absolutely nothing. The woman see's it as another £20 and the bloke see's it as harmless fun. They don't go there to pull other woman. I have had this argument before. If you went into a lap dancing bar and had a drink you would see it's not as bad as your mind thinks

StarOnTheTopOfTheTree · 09/12/2017 14:16

HandyAndy Does a man get a hard on when he has a private dance?

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:19

Doesn’t matter whether the man gets a hard on IMO.

@handyandy89 - would you pay your own young adult dd to perform a strip/lap dance for you?

If not why not?

StarOnTheTopOfTheTree · 09/12/2017 14:23

Doesn’t matter whether the man gets a hard on IMO

No, I agree, but I thought it might help Andy to see it for the sexual act it is.

But then you went and did it so much better! Grin

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:41

Would you pay another man to strip/lap dance for you?

I’m guessing it is a ‘no’ to both of those things.

The three main reasons women are upset by this type of thing are that; 1. They don’t want to be with a man who supports the sex industry, 2. They consider it to be a type of unfaithfulness and 3. They find lying and secrecy disrespectful.

Re 1. It is not up to men to tell women what they are allowed to feel about the sex industry, if you think the sex industry is fine go be with one of the many women who shares your view, 2. If you wouldn’t ask your dd or another man to strip for you then it is sexual and you cannot claim your female partners don’t have a right to feel it is a form of cheating. 3. No-one should expect to get away with treating their partner disrespectfully by lying to them, man or woman, being too weak to be honest is not a defence.

TammySwansonTwo · 09/12/2017 14:43

If he's having to lie to "spare her feeljngs" then clearly he knows that what he's done is upsetting and out of order.

Would you be happy for your partner to have a guy grinding his cock in her face? (I'm assuming you're a straight guy here because.... well, that's obvious) Oh, and for her to pay for it? Shortly after you got married?

You might want to think about why it is you think that buying a woman's sexual attention is "just a bit of fun".

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:46

Oh and yeah if it is ‘just a bit of fun’ why is it worth potentially losing your marriage over it?

Offred · 09/12/2017 14:49

Why do you even want to be with women who have values that are clearly so incompatible with yours?

Are you so desperate to avoid being alone that you will take whatever relationship you are offered and hide and lie about who you are in order to keep a woman?

It’s a bit pathetic and needy if that’s the case TBH...

Lillygolightly · 09/12/2017 15:29

Dear OP,

I am sorry that your thread looking for support and advice has been severely derailed.

OP: how severe this is is totally up to you, you don’t need a tide mark of former opinion/judgement to make your own. If having a private dance is tantamount to cheating to you, then that is what it is. He would have known that had he been honest and he could have saved you both a lot of heartache.

As for him getting stroppy because you’ve not simply forgiven and forgotten is a sly tactic to get you to give in because punishing him is not worth the hassle.

The hurt from this for you is not going to disappear over night so he has not right to expect any kind of instant forgiveness. He may view the act as frivolous and not much of anything, but he knew enough to know it would hurt you and that you would not approve which is why he lied in the first place and as such it is a further betrayal

He was man enough (or not as the case maybe) to consciously lie and deceive you regardless of whether he views it as unfaithful or not and therefore he should be man enough to deal with the consequences of his actions like any proper adult and loving, caring partner should.

How you feel about all this and how you respond to it and deal with it is totally up to you. You do not need anybody’s permission to be totally and utterly pissed off, feel hurt and betrayed, least of all him!!!

Sorry your going through this Flowers

StarOnTheTopOfTheTree · 09/12/2017 16:13

I don't think you need to apologise for anyone Lilly Hmm

If a person only posts 10 short comments on a thread that is on a topic of interest to a lot of people, then they can't be surprised if it moves on in their absence. It's an internet forum, not a paid for therapy session.

HandyAndy89 · 09/12/2017 16:18
  1. I didn't get a hard on and I actually felt slightly uncomfortable with it so nervous laughed my way threw it. 2) I'm not from Burnley so wouldn't want my daughter dancing like that on me but if she did choose to dance in that environment to fund her self at uni or as a career I wouldn't have an issue with it.

The woman are not there to meet men. They are simply there to rinse the blokes for as much as possible. The only blokes that go thinking they have any chance with these women are idiots.

My Mrs has had male dancers in her company at all sorts of events. A male stripper I know says woman are worse than men and often breach the no touch rule. Op if all his friends went in would you expect him to stand outside or go home ?

Offred · 09/12/2017 16:21

Why wouldn’t you want your daughter to dance for you?

It’s not cheating, it’s harmless fun, you don’t get aroused by it, the women are empowered by doing it so what exactly is the the problem with paying your daughter to dance naked for you?

Offred · 09/12/2017 16:26

Also what is worse; saying to your mates ‘nah I’m not into that’ or disrespecting your wife?

Are you trying to say that you think men are incapable of having their own thoughts and feelings about things that are separate from their mates? That they are compelled to do things their mates do even if they themselves don’t want to?

That’s a bit pathetic and needy too TBH.

It must be a lonely life if you are always pretending to be someone you aren’t with everyone all the time...

Kr1st1na · 09/12/2017 16:27

“ I had to do it because all my mates were and I didn’t want to be left out “ .

I don’t accept this excuse from my teenagers so I’m suprised that you think it’s ok from an adult.

Joysmum · 09/12/2017 16:30

I don't think you need to apologise for anyone Lilly

You need to learn the difference between when someone is expressing sorrow at a situation and when they are making an apology.

You also need to learn that people are free to feel and express their sorrow, even when someone holding an opposing view deems it appropriate to try to police the beliefs they don’t agree with.

saltandvinegarcrisps1 · 09/12/2017 17:09

NRTFT as am in a hurry but it really rips my knitting when people trot out the old " if a woman watched male strippers that's a laugh but men who pay for lap dances are scum" - seriously people- educate yourselves. I don't agree with either becsuse they are both cringe but there is no comparison. It is not an equal playing field. Male strippers are not trafficked, owned by female managers, not doing it because they are desperate and generally not afraid of the come back if they refuse to play ball. Male strippers are not subjected to the everyday sexism that women are. Women have male strippers at group events, laugh about it then go home. Men pay for lap dances for sexual stimulation and to own, for 5 minutes, a woman's body. They want to fuck the woman. Totally different.

TammySwansonTwo · 09/12/2017 17:21

Thanks Andy, I now have a full house in today's male privilege Bingo. Huzzah!

Whinesalot · 09/12/2017 17:24

Can he actually empathise with how you feel or has he just paid lip service to you?

dogfish1 · 09/12/2017 17:32

Er, most female strippers in the UK aren't trafficked either, nor are they desperate. The men are not allowed to touch them. Of course the men pay partly for sexual stimulation, but that doesn't mean the women are forced into it. Some of them make good money, and men would gladly do the same job if it was available. I suspect if you asked a bunch of strippers why they dont work in Tesco they'd tell you the money's far better.
Have never been to a lap dance club btw. Too seedy for me, and far too expensive.