Engagement Ring

[KKOKK]

Been with my bf for just over 3 years, but knew him as friends for about 5 years before that when we dated on and off.

He asked me if I wanted to get married in the summer, and I said yes, and considered we had become engaged...he then termed it a pre-engagement, which I found a bit disappointing. Obviously I worried he didn’t actually want to get married etc...

We moved in together 4 months ago, just after the non proposal. Both sets of parents are a bit miffed that we have decided to live together without the “commitment” of a ring. Anytime we are with my family especially they make jokes about rings and weddings. My BF announced we would get married next year. Still no ring.

We have just put down our deposit on a house and the jokes about a ring have increased.

He got a bit angry about it all this week after a family dinner and said he had a plan to go and speak with my dad and ask my mum for my grans ring to propose with but now he doesn’t see why he should just to please my family and now he just wants to do his own thing.

I sort of imagined getting engaged (which I thought we’d already done) would be romantic, but now I feel like he will grudgenly go through the motions just to get people off our backs.

I would be really happy to wear my grans ring, but I now feel like that will just be another thing we get picked on about that he didn’t buy me something of my own.

Sorry that’s so long!! I just feel like I am stuck in the middle of my family who aren’t really massively happy with my choices, and a grumpy BF who feels irritable about having to propose

I do genuinely believe that when a man is willing to get engaged without buying a ring or better still using a ring from his fiancée to be's family he doesn't want to commit enough. It sounds like he wants to back track and is just going through the motions : flat, deposit etc.

I think you need to reconsider.

It’s the backtrack from a very clear proposal that worries me. He asked you to marry him and you said yes - that’s a very clear engagement , ring or no ring. Now he’s claiming it’s not - I just don’t think he wants to marry you. You say why would he ask you then? Who knows! Maybe he wanted to get you to move in with him, get you to buy a house with him (that you have paid towards and he hasn’t directly). Did either of those things follow the proposal that weren’t happening beforehand? Maybe he thought you’d expect a proposal after those events and wants to keep you sweet but doesn’t actually want to get married himself so he’s trying to string things along as slowly as possible? I think you need a serious conversation with him and explain why a pre-proposal just exist and that was a proposal and why he’s backtracking now - only he can tell you.

• just doesn’t exist.

Your family aren’t helping. You need to tell them the back the fuck off. But if they don’t rate him, ask yourself why.

I am worried that your partner sounds like a manchild. Being kind, making you laugh etc. are basics in a relationship, not something you should particularly laud.

The mental load of organising everything all of the time is exhausting and builds resentment in a relationship.

Differences in attitudes to money and careers are also really difficult to overcome.

Honestly I would stop all talk of marriage and think very very hard whether you want to spend the next 50 years with this guy.

He does not intend to stay with you forever.

Everything about this situation screams "girlfriend who is good enough for now."

He will like how you do all his adulting for him so he will probably go along with your plans for a while.

It's nice to go along with you sorting the savings, you sorting out a house purchase, you being sensible enough that his parents feel happy giving him the deposit. He can play at working and not worry about money but get all the benefits anyway. All valuable stuff.

He sounds sulky and stroppy. How does he handle criticism? How do you two handle disagreements?

Marriage is a contract that will entitle him to half your house, pension, savings etc. If you have kids he'll be in an ideal position to be their primary carer so if you split he'd be resident parent and you could lose more than mere money.

So he's a nice BF and you can overlook his shortcomings now, in your 20s. Then live with him, just don't marry him. I've got a crystal ball and I suspect you won't be growing old with someone who puts all the mental load and financial pressure on you.

You think the Gran ring is a bit inappropriate? I think my mum might think that too

Definitely inappropriate. If it was his grans ring, that would be okay...But not a ring that's in your family.

I have a feeling you'll become stressed and resentful with the financial responsibility that falls on you in this relationship and potential marriage.

Is he actually mature and ready for the commitment of marriage... if talk of a ring is making him feel this way?

....and don't tell your family to "back the fuck off" as a pp so eloquently put it.

Your family are only looking out for you...

Family don’t always have your best interests at heart. As so many threads have shown. Making digs about an engagement ring is making OP uncomfortable and her partner cross. So yes, they should back the FUCKITING FUCK off (MN is sweary, get used to it).

You will notice that I also said that OP should think about why her family don’t like the guy.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

We had found a flat before the “proposal” so we were planning on moving in together. I don’t know what triggered the proposal, but it wasn’t directed by me and my family have only become involved since he hasn’t followed through with things. His family are the same.

If he doesn’t want to get married that’s totally fine, but it would be helpful if he would just say that, I don’t really see what’s to be gained from tying ourselves into a property if he doesn’t want to be together really.

If he knows that it's important to you and yet still won't commit, then he doesn't love you enough...however my DH of 20 years was a bit like that and when I put it to him in those terms he realised how important it was to me. Even now I think that if I hadn't been prepared to walk away, he might not have proposed because he just didn't think being married was important (own parents divorced, etc.).

What would happen if you just asked him straight out what's going on? You do have to start from a position of truth. State what happened first so that you can jointly work out a damage limitation plan.

The truth sounds like this from what you wrote. He definitely proposed on the bench. Don't be standing for any of that pre-proposal nonsense he asked you to marry him and you said yes. That is the definition of a proposal and an engagement. If he denies this clearly true statement then you've got bigger problems than this.

Anyway, he proposed, then he took it back. You are fine with that but you had already told people about his proposal and your engagement before he retracted it. This is obviously confusing for other people and embarrassing for you when people ask, not just parents.

Therefore you both need to work out a way to explain to people that the whole proposal and engagement thing has been put on hold because YourReasonsYouIdentify.

He has told you that you are not engaged but he has not told your parents yet nor has he helped you to tell them it's off. No wonder they are confused and you are having to post on MN.

Do you think he will continue to care more about his own embarrassment if challenged or might he switch to caring more about the awkward position he's put you in?

Will it end up as a row as he insists that you spout Alternative Truth and Fake News to save his ego?

I just feel like I’m caught making excuses for both sides when i didn’t do anything. He raised everyone’s expectations and now our families are annoyed and he’s annoyed about them being annoyed.

If he doesn’t want to get married he should just say so instead of stringing it out. I don’t think he should propose just because it’s what’s expected, but he’s the one who made it an issue in the first place. If he doesn’t want to do it now he can say that and I can pass on the news, ie we aren’t getting married next year, so forget about the ring

How old are you both? I’m guessing about 25, if you’ve known him 5 years and your parents still see him as a 20 year old.

I’m honestly a bit confused by what it is you want op and maybe that’s your bf’s problem.
You say your not bothered about getting married, but you said yes when he asked. You weren’t planning it before moving in together but your parents expected the ‘commitment’ of a ring (don’t get that!) because you were living together.
You don’t wear jewellery and are aren’t bothered for a ring, but are still waiting for the ring.
You don’t like the asking permission tradition, but think he should ask your dad.

If you’ve mentioned these things through out your relationship, I’d imagine you would. My ex knew I’d not be impressed by anyone asking permission to marry me quite early on. Maybe your bf’s not actually sure what you expect or want.

What do you really want, not what other people expect. Start with that and speak to your bf.

KKOKK seems like your avoiding some issues.
Like he's avoiding marriage and engagement.
Buy the house yourself.
Ask your family what thy really think and take of your rose coloured glasses.

Exactly Emboo. He proposed, you accepted, he's panicked (totally shouldn't have, still think this is a red flag), and instead of being angry or upset you went "That's fine, I don't mind either way. " I don't know how I would take that.

Do you want to marry him or do you just want to stop things being awkward?

Yes buy the house in your name - keep your own security as you don't seem to have it with him. Your parents want to protect you and clearly want the best for you.. We are in 2017 - you can live together.
He's an artist - is he able to sell any of his work and will he contribute to the household - does he treat you now. He could also be a lazy sod who feels entitled - he may not want responsibility at all - I'd be very very wary of him especially if you want children.

I was happy when he proposed, but equally if he isn’t sure then we shouldn’t do it. I know that sounds like I’m sitting on a fence, but whilst I would like to get married to him it doesn’t have to be right now if he’s not ready for it.

I was only waiting for a ring because that’s what he said was happening. If it isn’t his plan now there’s no reason why he can’t say so. It doesn’t make a difference to me if there is a ring or not, but he seemed to see it as a thing he wanted to do, so equally why should I object to that. I will wear his ring if he wants, and I will wear no ring if he doesn’t care.

We have spoken about it, and he said he wants to do it properly with a ring etc etc. I think he just did things in the wrong order.

I don’t know what issues I am avoiding, I am happy to get married or not get married right now, I’m unhappy with being in limbo where he tells people we are getting married next year, but doesn’t do anything else, so I’m stuck being asked if we’re engaged or not and then feel a bit stupid that I don’t know what’s happening in my own relationship.

It’s not something you can sit on the fence with though, and it seems you both are.
How long have you lived together? I’d tell him that you don’t think being engaged is right at this moment and that it’s best you try living together for longer, get some money saved and discuss engagements and marriage in a year or two. Then tell both your families that you’ve decided to postpone things to save up and give you both chance to decide if marriage is right for you.

Protect your deposit in the house and he his, and split bills/mortgage 50/50 if possible with what you both earn.

You don’t know what’s happening because usually you dive things but the ONE time when he was supposed to step up and do the traditional thing (in his mind certainly) he blew it. What a ditherer. He could have all this sorted in an afternoon by getting his arse to a jeweller. But no, he’s not doing that because he doesn’t make decisions.

I haven’t heard a single thing about this man that makes him even half an attractive catch. OP what’s in this for you?

I will probably take on the lion share of mortgage and bills payments for the time being. We have only lived together for 4 months, but my plan was always to buy a house this year so I have sort of forged ahead with that.

I think you’re right, I should just say let’s forget the engagement and getting married for now.

He is keen to start a family in the next few years so that’s possibly what has accelerated his ideas about getting married etc.

So, make a decision. Decide what you want and tell him.
Then follow through.

If you want to get married, he has proposed, you have said yes. Take everyone else out of the equation, tell him you are both going out to buy a ring and don’t make it a big deal.

You’ve said he doesn’t ‘do’ he passively waits for things to magically happen. So make it happen.

But realise that this will form the blueprint of the rest of your relationship.

Why does he hunk he's the only one in this 'engagement' malarkey. He sounds like he's a bit of a power tripper who thinks the little woman needs to wait patiently for the big announcement when he decides.

I don't like the sound of any of this at all. An engagement is about 2 people, equally, even if you're being a bit traditional. He's treating you like some inferior in all this.

worried I think I definitely haven’t made him seem glorious at all. He’s not terrible, this has just been a bad example of him, but I think you’re right that I might feel a bit annoyed that he had one job and he messed it up. Probably I have some doubts about his ability to get things done, so that’s something I should look at