Engagement Ring

[KKOKK]

Been with my bf for just over 3 years, but knew him as friends for about 5 years before that when we dated on and off.

He asked me if I wanted to get married in the summer, and I said yes, and considered we had become engaged...he then termed it a pre-engagement, which I found a bit disappointing. Obviously I worried he didn’t actually want to get married etc...

We moved in together 4 months ago, just after the non proposal. Both sets of parents are a bit miffed that we have decided to live together without the “commitment” of a ring. Anytime we are with my family especially they make jokes about rings and weddings. My BF announced we would get married next year. Still no ring.

We have just put down our deposit on a house and the jokes about a ring have increased.

He got a bit angry about it all this week after a family dinner and said he had a plan to go and speak with my dad and ask my mum for my grans ring to propose with but now he doesn’t see why he should just to please my family and now he just wants to do his own thing.

I sort of imagined getting engaged (which I thought we’d already done) would be romantic, but now I feel like he will grudgenly go through the motions just to get people off our backs.

I would be really happy to wear my grans ring, but I now feel like that will just be another thing we get picked on about that he didn’t buy me something of my own.

Sorry that’s so long!! I just feel like I am stuck in the middle of my family who aren’t really massively happy with my choices, and a grumpy BF who feels irritable about having to propose

My then bf and I had been to a wedding that day. We were sat down by a river on a lovely summer evening. He said ‘ I guess we could get married’ and I said ‘yeh ok I suppose so’ That was it. We got married the following spring with no engagement ring. After all a ring is only a sign of and impending marriage. We loved each other, we wanted to get married and we did. ( stayed married for 20 odd years)

namechanged that’s sort of what happened with us...except the part where we have gone on to get married 😁

He seems confused, I think you both need to tell the parents that it’s an issue you are dealing with yourselves and don’t need their comments or opinions. If they keep quiet it takes the pressure off him and allows him and you to make your own decisions. It sounds like it’s not that he doesn’t want to do it but he’s stubborn and wants to feel like it was completely 100% his decision. The parental involvement has made him question this. Been in this situation before.

But as far as getting married next summer, it is November now. Weddings take time to plan, venues & vendors get booked up in summer and you need to give friends and family enough notice. It is possible to plan a wedding for next summer but you would need to really be starting to plan now. So with this in mind perhaps don’t mention it for a while and see what happens, reality is the wedding would be the year after next anyway.

Woah OP there's so many red flags around your story that it's hard to see you in the midst of them!

Seriously, he does not sound like 'husband' material, and I totally agree with the very many posters saying he's just happy with things as they are and doesn't want to rock the boat - and why would he when he's getting such a good deal?

You said "I don’t think he should propose just because it’s what’s expected" - but OP he DID propose! What is this nonsense of a 'pre-proposal' I've never heard anything like it! The ring is a red herring. He proposed, most definitely. You accepted, most definitely. He surely knows you're not bothered about a ring, but if he was serious about getting married next year then you'd be well into the plans by now - certainly you'd have talked about the date and venue - and of course the BUDGET

And please stop saying you don't mind either way, because you clearly do or you wouldn't be posting here. And you've every right to care! A marriage proposal is a big deal and you accepted, so you must have wanted it. He's stringing you along and by the sounds of it you'll have a lucky escape if you tell him you've changed your mind about getting married and move on with your life, without him in it. I'm sorry but he just doesn't sound like a match for you at all and as everyone else has said - add 20 years and some kids to the mix you will end up despising him for his lack of practical and financial commitment and leaving you to deal with the mental load of 'running' a family.

The hills are that way OP >>>

Can you sort out the house/mortgage in your name only without him?

Just have him move in as your BF.

Much easier to split if things go pear-shaped. Especially as you haven't lived together for very long.

Putting the non-proposal proposal to one side please seek legal advice regarding the deposit contributions you’re both making. You can get a deed written by a solicitor that outlines who has contributed what and the order that is to be repaid should the relationship not work out and the property be sold. That way financially you’re protected.

Regarding the proposal, none of us can really guess what’s going on, he does seem to be stringing you along but he may be deflecting and have some grand plan he’s trying to distract you from. Ask both of your families to butt out as it’s not their place and have a chat with him.

The legal side of the house is already sorted, so I’m not massively worried about that, although our mortgage will be fixed for 5 years which would obviously make things complicated if it didn’t work out.

I actually don’t know what to think about it all.

Blah blah blah

So you’re both fence sitters and can’t make a decision.

You’ll go far together.

OP look, I know it feels super reasonable and sensible to say "it's not unusual for parents to help with deposits" or "loads of people don't want to do just any old job" or "someone has to be the organiser in a relationship" etc.; but you know what IS unusual? Someone being ALL THOSE THINGS AT ONCE. And I'm sorry, it's not a great sign.

DS4 and Gf have been together nearly 10 years. They are very well suited and as far as I am concerned she is my much loved DIL.

Well of course everyone has been saying to DS for ages when are you getting engaged, to which he says "its not up for discussion, when I want to".
We as a family purposely don't mention it now, but that doesn't stop members of their friendship group which really irritates him.
I am worried that his GF will just get fed up waiting.
DS feels that after all the pressure that the proposal/engagement must be a real "event" and this worries him as he is a shy private person.
We all know that he really wants to be with her for ever, but can't cope with what he sees as pressure.
Perhaps the Op's OH is similar?

Fucking hell, he's a lucky bloke. His girlfriend is buying him a house and paying most of the mortgage for him. Cos he's an artist, yeah?

He proposes and waffles on about getting married but won't buy her a ring (even though he supposedly saves £500 per month) and is now adamant it was only a "pre-engagement" and means sweet fuck all and would everyone stop bothering him please.

Hes a genius.

You will also be paying the lions share of the mortgage and bills.

Don't let yourself be ripped off.

Can anyone remember and link to the thread in relationships, possibly a month or so ago, where the OP came from a poor background, had worked hard, was a high earner. Her DP was ‘artistic’, left jobs usually after six months if they weren’t ‘fulfilling’. She found him very loving, caring, fun, spontaneous. She loved him, loved his family, but was slowly coming to the realisation that he was not functioning as an adult and never really would. She and her family were enabling him to be a perpetual man child. She realised she couldn’t stay with him and have a family with him, as he showed no sign of or capacity to step up

Yeah I remember it. Can't find it though.

The savings is a recent thing, and is so he can contribute a little bit to the bills. Obviously he could buy a ring if he wanted too, but for some reason he’s convinced himself it has to be something grand, or at least that’s what he says, which could also be a convenient, but unnecessary excuse.

I do the lion share of financials and planning but it would bother me more not to do that stuff, because I like to know there’s a contingency plan, which I wouldn’t be assured of if it was down to him.

He’s a dreamer, but he’s not a bad person, he doesn’t want to do any old job, but he is holding down a boring 9-5 because it makes sense to do that financially. Him being an artist doesn’t put me off, it just means I am more cautious about my own work situation because if he did get a big commission or anything I know he would want to quit his job to do that, and I would worry about him getting another job if he didn’t get a new commission before the money from the first ran out.

I think we have a good relationship, and I feel like we would have continued to plod along nicely if he hadn’t mentioned getting married, it’s only that he brought it up and then back tracked that has caused a problem.

Sorry if repeating pp, haven't read it all.

My cousin did this. 10 years later, divorcing, he'll probably be entitled to half the house even though he didn't contribute to the deposit, didn't pay the mortgage OR bills. He's also an artist.

If they'd had children, she'd have been screwed if she'd wanted a decent maternity leave or to stay at home to parent.

Please, please think again about buying the house with him. Wait until he's saved up 50% of whatever you're paying in and commits to half the mortgage and bills. Getting married is easy... divorce is messy!

Has he ever had a big commission?

When you have a boyfriend, no financial ties, no kids, can break it off whenever you want then He’s a dreamer, but he’s not a bad person, is absolutely fine.

You are moving to a stage in life where you need a life partner. For that, not a bad person is too low a bar. For that, He's a dreamer is a problem.

You already know you can't trust him financially.
You already know he wouldn't plan for your security.

You already know he will leave you to pay his half of the mortgage and bills in a heartbeat if his next commission took too long.

If he runs out of money can you cover all the bills for everything for both of you out of your wages (not savings)? Have you got a legal agreement around that? What if within the first year in the new place he leaves his job, burns through his commission money and then proceeds to take low commission jobs or get no job, following his heart, for four years.

You would not be the first working spouse of an artist to experience exactly this once you are legally obliged to pay his share of the mortgage.

Is that in the legal agreement?

I think we have a good relationship, and I feel like we would have continued to plod along nicely if he hadn’t mentioned getting married, it’s only that he brought it up and then back tracked that has caused a problem.

What happened here is hugely significant. He is gaslighting you with the pre-proposal shite. He has left you to pick up the pieces of his fuck up. He gets angry at others being pissed off at him not doing the thing he said he would do.

He's twisting and turning to avoid telling the truth, apologising, taking steps to make you happier. It is the kind of thing an eight year old would do. Not an adult.

It shows deep disrespect for you. It shows a lack of care for you.

Have you had situations before where he had to put himself into a difficult situation to help or protect you? Has he faced this test before and passed?

I like to know there’s a contingency plan, which I wouldn’t be assured of if it was down to him.

This will be your life with him. Always being responsible for the financials and you'll start feeling you're a parent you him.

I'm not even sure I'd be married if my husband suggested using my Grandma's ring.

I find it bloody cheeky. I couldn't get married to an ip and coming artist, actor.. musician .... I need security and stability in marriage personally.

Could you get the mortgage by yourself and have him pay rent and bills?

This will be your life with him. Always being responsible for the financials and you'll start feeling you're a parent you him.

...the sex will become less and less frequent because lord knows it's impossible to find someone sexy who obliges you to baby them, and ditto someone who's becoming increasingly like your mother. And before he knows it he'll find himself alone after work explaining to a naive young colleague how he'd dreamt of being an artist but had given it all up because you'd made him. And how he hadn't really wanted to marry but he'd just gotten swept along with the whole thing and your family we're hassling him. But that it's okay because you're not sleeping together anymore and you're basically just friends so... how about we go for a drink?

He’s had a few small commissions in the past, and he works hard at that side of things, it’s just a difficult industry. He’s never had enough to support himself without having a job, although he spent a year as a full time artist after he received an inheritance a couple of years ago and he seemed happy with how that worked out even though nothing particularly concrete came of it.

If we had kids he would probably give up his full time job and look after them while doing his art. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense for me to give up work if I didn’t have too.

The financial side is really well worked out, and he has agreed to sign agreements to protect my interests. If I had to, I could afford the house on my own at my current wage, which all being well should increase yearly, and include a profit share next year too.

I know I’ve made him sound like a complete plum which hasn’t been my intention at all, I just felt unsure about the proposal non proposal etc and feel stuck in the middle of my family who think he’s a waster and him who is becoming increasingly frustrated when people joke about things.

I think I will sit down with him tonight and explain my point of view a bit better, I probably don’t help things by trying to keep everyone happy.

In what way are your family wrong?

Any chance he may actually be planning on giving you an engagement ring at Christmas? Both your and his family need to back the hell off and leave him be. If he gives you a ring now you will never know if it’s what he truely wants or just felt pressured to do. The constant nagging would certainly make me back off and even cancel any plans I had to produce a ring.

rat surely that could apply to any marriage. If he wanted to cheat he would go off and do it, he wouldn’t need an excuse or a justification, and I’m very aware of not stifling his creative side, so I wouldn’t be wearing that excuse at any rate.