If you're still a social misfit when you're a grown up

[diggitydog]

Anyone out there not outgrown the painful teenage social misfit stage? Past the age of hiding behind being into cool bands or alternative clothing but still dreadfully lost and confused by the rules?

And how do you make sure your kids grow up with more confidence than you?

I'm not sure having any sort of MH diagnosis is all that helpful. I think the range of human character differences is vast and we all lie somewhere along that long line. Somewhere in the middle someone decided was 'normal' and that anyone not close to the middle needs to be categorised. I just don't see it like that at all. I think we are all very similar and also very different and some people only experience mental health issues because they (we all) are trying to fit in to a society that is structured so oddly these days that it's hard to build a life that might be right for you (me, any individual). The effort required can be soul destroying.

For example, to live a simple life in the countryside or small communities close to nature where (historically) human beings have thrived you have to be rich. We're forced to try to function in a world where it is hard to function let alone thrive. People are 'diagnosed' and medicated to make this easier. It doesn't always work and people struggle to build a life that is right for them.

Gherkinsnatch you will find out if they're worth having as a friend if they're sympathetic to what you've confided in them.

Gherkin that was brave. I’m sorry you now feel crap.

Trying things out is good for self development if you can take some messages about how you operate from it.

In this case you reached out and tried explaining who you are to someone you care for. You’ve now got a feeling of deep discomfort, but what is it that is causing the discomfort?

Gold - how helpful or unhelpful a diagnosis (of any kind) is depends on many factors, including what type of feelings you as an individual have about labelling.

Diagnosis can add the missing piece and give you answers which fundamentally improve your life or it can be an albatross constricting your life to a label...

I have a friend who is a psychiatrist who feels as you do but actually (as a person who finds labels helpful) I wonder what is being suggested? Is it that, since we have no power to change the world, we just leave individuals struggling with it without support of all kinds because the problem is not them it is the world?

I think more of a middle ground is required.

I've namechanged to post here. I have never really fitted in and DH is not very sociable either. I see people posting on Facebook about their fabulous friends and lots of meals out etc and I want to do the same, but I know if I do that I feel uncomfortable, worry about saying the wrong thing and think it's better not to go to things like work meals out or Christmas dinners etc. DH is really no better.

I have never been to a hen night or a big 0 birthday party (except for relatives) and nobody has ever surprised me with a party or even a group present (except in work a couple of times).

I feel bad for ds (15 and in year 10 at school) that he does not seem to have any friends at school. He talks to people, he doesn't get bullied or anything, but he never gets invited to parties or to hang out in the holidays. I have always been utterly useless at getting on with school mums though and where I live there seems to be an awful lot of parents controlling their childrens' friendships, even at this age. I hope though that when he goes to sixth form college he will find more like-minded people and definitely at university.

I do have a few friends but they are all long distance (overseas) and it's such an effort to go to see them. I recently visited a friend in a European country and I really really really didn't want to go. But then of course I did enjoy myself and didn't want to come home. It's getting over that hump of being bothered.

I've done MB too and come out as ENTJ (just into the E) when I was slightly more outgoing in my youth, I've not done it recently but I come out very blue when I do the insights where you get assigned a colour.

Offred thank you for responding to my thoughts. I agree that having a diagnosis can be helpful for many people, and the support and sometimes medication that diagnosis brings enables people to live more easily in an often harsh environment.

I just wish society were more accepting of all the different people and their different ways / mannerisms / strange and interesting characteristics so we could appreciate those difference, rejoice in them and everyone find a way to live where they could feel accepted and fulfilled.

Foolish and unrealistic, I know.

I wish that too but I often think re my friend ‘but the reality is that the world actually isn’t like that now. Given that are you helping or hurting?’

He is such a good person I worry though that he just doesn’t understand living the actual lives some of his patients live. How much the world is set around a particular kind of expectations and needing to have ‘a reason’ to get out of what is expected.

I think ppl who are not comfortable with the labelling aspects often do better with the support the label gives, and with accepting that they are still able to define themselves no matter what labels other people give them, than they do with ‘the world is what’s wrong not you’

Can I join?! Have just done the Myers Briggs test (I have done it before years ago but couldn't remember exactly what I was) and I'm INTJ-T as well! Not sure exactly what the -T means... and scored 39 on the AQ test. I really identify with a lot of the things you have all been saying.

I struggle every day and never really feel quite right unless I am at home doing my own thing. I just don't feel comfortable in my own skin and every little interaction I have while I am out seems to affect me much more than it should.

The conference didn't go quite as planned. Managed to chat to people but then doubted myself and felt I'd said the wrong thing to someone.
My busy little bastarding brain completely catastrophised it and before I knew it I was being called out on twitter using the conference hashtag and my boss found out and I had to resign. (The second part of this paragraph is all in my head of course).
Managed to calm myself down after a couple of hours but I still feel so ashamed I'm not in control of a)what I'm saying and b)what I'm thinking.
Thanks for the support you gave me in advance and I'm sorry I couldn't stop sabotaging myself.

Even without having been there, I can 100% guarantee that the wrong thing you said was probably not noticed by anyone else but you. Apart from you know, if you took the mic and just insulted someone in a q&a session but it doesn’t sound like you did that? What if the person you spoke to was so busy thinking ‘oh god oh god I just dropped a crisp on my shoe and now what do I do?’ To even really think about what you said?

I have a friend who gets social anxiety like this, I’m sure she’s posted up some good/funny resources which might come in handy next time. Will have a look see if I can find any.

Did you manage to stay at the conference though? That would count as a reasonable score for me. Celebrate the wins and all that.

Thanks @reetgood I would really appreciate some practical advice because all I've drawn up so far is go to the doctor and ask for drugs.
I've had social anxiety since my teens but I've always just pushed through and tried to fake it and on the whole people don't realise but it takes so much out of me if the slightest thing goes wrong.
I did have to escape I'm afraid but I forced myself to go back in after an hour. Kept my trap shut until the end though!

I agree with reet.

That sounds like a resounding success TBH and whilst your anxiety brain is hyperfocussed on the tiny bit you consider a failure, what I read is you pushed yourself, recognised when it was getting too much, withdrew but then came back!

That’s really great!

You are expecting too much of yourself I think. You are simply just not going to go from crippling anxiety to social butterfly in one conference. It is going to take several goes for it to become comfortable.

I also agree with @offred, :) i think you are being too hard on yourself. Conferences are challenging even without social anxiety. I will have a look at what I can find...

Ecouch is a free online system that uses cbt approaches to anxiety ecouch.anu.edu.au/welcome there is a module specifically targeted at social anxiety I think. Using those techniques along with what you already do - like taking yourself off to calm down which isn’t a bad plan at all - can work

Thanks for the support and I'll check out that link.
It just feels ever so shitty to be middle aged and behaving like this. And I haven't got anyone irl to confide this to so this thread has been really interesting.

It’s not an age thing.

It’s just a personality thing.

I am a terrible public speaker.... people assume I will be good at it because I can chair public meetings of 150 people, have lead protests, am really good at opening conversations with strangers etc I communicate clearly and confidently in every other way but when it comes to presenting at a conference or asking a question/making a point in a debate/q&a with an audience of more than about 20 ppl I am so nervous and shake so much I can barely get my words out.

I also can’t make phone calls to strangers... this includes the gp, Dentist, taxis, takeaways etc

You would probably be surprised at how many people feel similar to you and struggle with these things.

It is said a lot but doing it repeatedly really does make it easier each time.

Also I have found pushing myself to do it and forcing myself to see doing it rather than winning at it as the achievement.

Ladybird T is 'thinking' i.e. a type strong in logic as opposed to F (feeling/good with people). So it's understandable that you srtuggle with reading people.
It's amazing how most posters here are INTJ or INFJ.

To the poster on last page who said her values are formed via logic (sorry can't see the username as am on prev page!), could you give an example where what seemed a value was undermined by logic? I find htat very interesting.
Personally I really struggle with deciding whether I'm T or F (which probably means F!). The thing is I read people quite well and been known for giving good advice (as they tell me) but I'm not good at unpredicatble/dramatic people who really baffle and irritate me.

My values are formed via logic too.

It is vanishingly rare that values conflict with logic if your values are formed by logic.

Where I think the F comes in for me;

Some people whose values are formed by logic apply their values to other people. For me it matters much much more to use my logic to explore the values of others and to inform as to what is the best course of action to match their values. Including looking at feelings based or socialisation based value systems etc and working out how to get the right outcome for those people (not necessarily what I would personally consider the right outcome and within reason, there are some things my values preclude me from helping people to achieve).

This is what I meant earlier by logic is a tool.

I won’t come across quite how I do IRL on here due to the medium (Internet forum).

Yes I am on the autistic spectrum. Became more self aware hence my DC was diagnosed

My values are formed through logic, which I think is part of the reason why I find a lot of situations so difficult. If something is A Rule (especially legally), I totally understand questioning the rule, and do question the rule, but can't understand disobeying it. Even something stupid like no parking signs - DH can't understand why I panic and stress so much if he tries to park the car somewhere where he isn't meant to.

Interesting, Offred and Gherkin. Did you say what your M-B type was, Gherkin? I'd say what you just described applies to J types an within that, more to F.
If your values are formed by logic - yes that's clear, I thought when you said values win over logic every time, you meant you form them by logic too, Offred.
Where I still struggle with F/T is, I don't think many people would say that logic overcomes their value system. I think any type can either have strong ethics/moral code/priorities or not, this is beyond types, but I'd say Ts build the system on textbook behaviour (when they are good people, when bad they don't pretend to be good) whereas Fs are supposed to be more creative with it - i.e. likely to look at each situation in a more complex way, what kind of people ar involved, what can be forgiven in some cases but not others etc. Fs can be immoral but would be able to cover that up really well by acting the part.
Ts don't like doing favours/exceptions, and really think it's fair to be black&white/regimental with it. Well it especially applies to J types.

I got ISTJ Love

I have friends. I know I’m quite wierd.

I like to tell the truth OP. I can’t see the point. Of not. Not all the time, but mainly. I can soften the blow, or say things in a gentler way. But mostly I chose not to. I just say it as I see it. To me that creates depth of friendship. Which is what I seek. Plus then they get to see the real me. What’s the point in pretending otherwise?

Thank you LoveforPGTips that makes sense. I've never really thought to myself that I'm bad at reading people, I just thought that I struggled socially because I had a very isolated upbringing. But now I look back I can see that it's more than just that.

I just about get by on a superficial level because I've learnt some of the ways you are supposed to behave in certain situations and I have also picked up some 'stock' phrases and things to make small talk to people about.

But, it's not natural and I can't follow it through in the right way to then make actual friendships. Plus I'm not being myself and I think people pick up on that and find me awkward.