If you're still a social misfit when you're a grown up

[diggitydog]

Anyone out there not outgrown the painful teenage social misfit stage? Past the age of hiding behind being into cool bands or alternative clothing but still dreadfully lost and confused by the rules?

And how do you make sure your kids grow up with more confidence than you?

Oh Gherkin I love rules. Rules are my favourite. And if there are exceptions to rules I need every single possible scenario spelled out for me or else I don't know what to do. Rules are my only friends 😂

But on the whole I feel very happy, secure and stable in myself at the moment. It was a lightbulb moment to hear my siblings talk about negotiating social situations by feelings and realising I just cannot relate to it. I negotiate by rules.
Offred not sure if you've missed my post (I think on page 2) but this quote and your other posts convince me even more that you are INTJ, not 'F'. And your fiction comments - do you know that INTJs are the best writers of fiction ever? Dostoevsky was one, they are masters of understanding very complex emotions/contradictions in people. Dostoevsky is of that type. I might still not know the whole picture, so may be wrong but from what's in front of me, that's how it looks.

damn, I obv meant INFJ are the best fiction writers! I'm off focus today, big time.

...and some repeated sentences

I do MB fairly regularly and always come out INFJ.

It’s because values are the most important thing to me in the world I think. I think logic is important but subservient as it is a tool to use (as are rules) in order to achieve the best outcome as per my values and, if about other people, as per their values.

I’m currently waiting on an assessment for ASD, I tend to score around 36-37 on the AQ test, so not as high as some but still enough.
I’m actually ok at speaking on the phone, don’t like the actual having-to-ring but once I’m on the phone I’m not so bad. I’m also OK with change, which I know ASD people have issue with. I know everyone on the spectrum is different of course, and maybe I’ve just learnt to cope with these things.
I’ve done Myers-Briggs a few times and I swear I’ve had different answers, but always I never E I wasn’t actually bullied at school. In Year 7 I just withdrew into myself completely and spent most of lunchtime in the library, only going to the canteen when no-one was queuing outside. I do have a friend from school who I’ve seen once in the four and a half years since we left. I made 2 friends at university, one of whom is v extrovert and one who is more introvert and lives with her boyfriend currently. There were a few people at school and uni who I wanted to befriend but just couldn’t bring myself to, because my negative voice would jump in and tell me I was too weird, that we wouldn’t have anything in common, that they wouldn’t want to befriend me etc.
I don’t hate pop culture per se, I just never knew what everyone at school was watching or listening to.
As for wanting to fit in... everyone does, it’s human nature. (Obv I know a lot of older people just end up not giving a fuck). Society as a whole is not very kind to those who are different; they probably feel threatened in some way. Bit sad, really.

interesting, what happens if logic is in conflict with someone's values?

TheCatPaws I struggle a bit with having to choose between these two - I think that 'internal logical system' can't exist without the what you call inspiration from the world, I mean you can't construct it from nothing/just imagination without experience, so I suppose everyone starts with NE but then one constructs the TI world and gets attached to that, the other continues gathering and gathering info/inspiration and then the task is to choose what's relevant...

but how do you make decisions? do you look what others do/have dome successfully, or is something else guiding you?

I think you’re right to some extent, but as you say one continues to gather.

For me, I make decisions based on logic but also pure curiosity.

This is a fascinating thread, it's as if everyone has thrown of their disguise and revealed their true selves.
I'm INFJ. I feel at home here.

Love - values win over logic every time.

Love, internal logic is developed separately to other types of knowledge I think. New information and new ideas are put to the test using logic. Although I found reading Kant useful in developing my knowledge of logic as an discipline.

In terms of values, mine are formed intellectually rather than subjectively arising from feeling. In order for me to accept a value I have to test this to see there are no obvious contradictions and that any argument is logically valid.

Anyone have any tips for me on networking? I have to go to a conference tomorrow with a big influence on networking and getting involved. My confidence is at a real low but I don't want to create a bad impression but skulking around at the back.
I will be up early doing power poses (not actually joking) but could anyone else recommend some practical things I can do to help myself?

Pick a person that you feel excels at these events and role play the day as that person (though obviously as you being like that person not actually pretending you are someone else).

Funny you say that. Not quite the same thing, but I recently had to do an event for work where I had to interview a semi-public figure in front of a paying audience. Not my usual thing at all. I was really worrying about it months in advance. I eventually decided this was ridiculous and I had to find a way though. So I pretended I was Emily Maitlis. Worked a treat. And I actually rather enjoyed it!

It’s a really effective tactic... so many people I know do it.

INTJ here, AQ of 25. Never been "besties" with anyone, but will talk to people on public transport, help people out with stuff etc.
Despite my introversion, I'm a storyteller, which I manage by having a work persona that's extroverted and confident (then spending a while alone to recover).
I find it difficult to mix in groups of women, tend to end up chatting with men more as they make more sense to me.
I can usually see a simple solution to things quickly, and find it frustrating that people put themselves through unnecessary drama/hassle rather than take the logical route.

@tinmachine I am one of those weirdos who likes networking events. I often have a look at the delegate list and set myself a goal of talking to 3-5 people on the list that I’m interested in connecting with. I think that actually helps because then i can feel purposeful rather than the less structured ‘just network’. Remember that networking is just about talking to people, which you can do. Have some banal questions and listen to the answers. Hang out by the drinks and food if you’re feeling a bit nervy to start, then talk to the nervy person you see standing near you (there will be one) and you can commiserate on how weird these events are. It is fine to hover on the edges of groups if there’s someone there you want to talk to, no matter how weird it feels. It’s also fine to wrap a conversation with ‘lovely to meet you, it’s been really nice talking to you, i’m going to see if I can grab a minute with so and so’ if you find yourself trapped talking with just one person. Knowing the rules of these events is helpful I think.

I’ve been reading the thread with interest as I’m fairly neurotypical (at least I think so) and have friendships/can do small talk. However, I spent a lot of my childhood and teenage years being described as weird. As an adult, I’ve been able to construct a life where I’m with my tribe and the fact that I don’t always express things in a typical way is not remarkable. I coped by ditching or rejecting that which wasn’t accommodating me. I was lucky to have a supportive group of friends and family who were also fairly untypical in some ways. I suspect that the solutions that worked for me won’t work for some other people as the barriers are different. But re raising children who are a bit outsider, I’d say modelling that you can be happy in being a misfit is pretty useful. My parents consistently did things that people said ‘ooo but that’s not usual’ because it was what worked for them. Having that example made it easier for me to make choices that suit who I am and what I want, rather than what I think I should want.

I appreciate this doesn’t solve the social thing, but sometimes it’s about creating the world you want rather than moulding yourself to a world that doesn’t accommodate you.

I'm INFJ too.

Thank you for these excellent tips.
I haven't been to a conference before @reetgood so it's good to have that head start on what the rules are.

@tinmachine it’s of course the unspoken rules. A good conference will have a balance of structured and unstructured time so you won’t be having to make small talk all day. And if it’s the first time at this kind of event, there’s another topic of conversation :)

Signing in

Unspoken rules are the problem for me @reetgood. I'm abit obtuse to the unspoken so it's good to have it described, thank you!

@InMySpareTime I find this too - I'm very practical and logical so I find it very difficult to pull the right faces while colleagues talk round and round a problem which is obvious to me.
It's sad but I've just learned to shut up and switch off mostly to avoid offending people.

I took a step and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I spoke to a friend to apologise for if my lack of regular communication made them feel like I didn't value their friendship, and explained why I find it difficult. Over messenger so not face to face, which I don't think I'd have been able to do. I think it went ok, but I felt physically sick as soon as I pressed send, and I've been so anxious since that I've only left the house when I've absolutely had to for the school run.