Son or boyfriend? Did I over react?

[Anonaninanan]

My partner and i have been together for 3 years and have 2 children.

I also have older children.

I should maybe start by saying that my ex was very abusive towards me and has failed to be any sort of a father, also my family is just crap, so my son has had nobody but me there for for him, which has probably clouded my view.

My partner is a great guy, was there for the kids and me, we had ups and downs but were generally ok.

Sadly I had to ask him to leave over an incident and a few people seem to think I'm over reacting.

My son (16) was being a bit lazy, typical teen stuff really. I was telling him to do something, he huffed and puffed, I told him off, he huffed some more. Then my partner came up to him and screamed in his face. Right in his face. He swore and shouted "dont fucking speak to your mum like that, that's out of order, you better start to show her some fucking respect, if you don't start to change your attention, then im gonna come down so fucking hard, you ain't gonna know what's hit you". I was sitting there in shock. My partner walked off to clam down, my son collapsed into tears and I knew then that my life was about to change.

I asked my partner to apologise to my son, which he eventually did with a shrug and a 'sorry' he then shouted at me asking why I was in his face when I had just walked into the room.

I spoke to my son who was crushed. He said he didn't feel comfortable around my partner after that and had lost all respect for him. I asked my partner to leave.

My son did come later and tell me to think of everyone else and that it didn't matter as it was only him which broke my heart even more.

We got things sorted and he left a couple of days later, he moved with family a significant distance away.

Now I'm stuck. I still love him. But I obviously love my son more.

I want to be with him. I can't see how after what happened.

I can't see a way forward out of this whole mess.

Did I over react?

Where can we go from here?

I know BaronessEllaSaturday that you obviously believe that..

Willow, I know, I have 3 of them. (teenagers) 5 kids in total. I agree with you actually, he shouldn't have done it but do I think he's a danger to that child or the other two from the description we've had? No I don't.

What I suspect has happened is this is a long line of normal teenage attitude, which the step father has up until this point kept out of, and in the end he got sick of it and blasted him because he was at the end of his tether. He likely didn't think he'd done anything wrong initially because it felt like a release after months of being frustrated and listening to disrespect towards his partner.

I had a chat with my family last night about this thread actually. I once did something I'm not proud of and pinned my eldest against a wall, he incidentally was 16 at the time. It was because he was physically bullying his little brother (7 years between them and no contest) and I wanted him to know what it was like to feel intimidated by someone far stronger than you are. I spoke to him about it at length afterwards and explained how he felt when I did that was the same as the little one felt when he did it. That they all have a right to feel safe in their home and he was removing that right.

I asked him (last night) did he think because of that incident did he feel he was in danger from me, or that I may lose my rag and hit him or anything similar? His response was a resounding, don't be silly, no way, it taught me something.

Not the same scenario but that one moment of 'abuse' does not mean my kids are abused.

This incident could be sorted out through talking and setting boundaries both for the step father and the stepson. Breaking up a whole family over it seems like a huge overreaction imo.

Oh and to all the authoritarian parents on here; your kids won’t necessarily respect you, you are raising them to fear breaking rules... fear isn’t anything to do with respect... sulky sarcasm is pretty normal for teens, it’s not a sign of a lack of respect for the OP necessarily, and it is ridiculous to overreact by extrapolating it to the degree it has been on this thread (and also the way the op’s Ex did).

Also, it’s the op’s Ex that has broken up the family by moving far away...

It is possible that after a break of him living elsewhere for a short time he could have made things ok with DSS and come back into the house but he took the nuclear action of moving hundreds of miles away...

Oh do leave off Offred. Sulky sarcasm is most definitely NOT pretty normal for teens. I suppose we all actually start to believe that what we see most of is normal. In my circles, it would be considered awful, and none of us would stand for it. I see it in others' children, I don't see it in our circles, just delightful well-mannered young people who know how to behave, and are happy and engaging. They are not sulky and no parent I know would ever regard such disrespectful oikness as normal and therefore excusable.

What is ridiculous, is that a man has defended his partner, lost his temper on just once occasion, and he's been kicked out away from hi children for it, whilst the brat that caused all this is revered and bubble wrapped by the OP. It is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read.

FlowerPot1234 What I do find ridiculous is your insistence on calling a child you do not know from Adam a brat.

Authoritarian parents are not interested in their children’s emotional health and therefore it is not likely that they would notice the damage that is being done.

They see their children exclusively along the lines of ‘following the rules? Yes then they are fine, no then they are in need of correction’

Their children often grow up without basic life skills because they have never been allowed to be normal humans with normal feelings and normal failings, or they spiral out of control when not living under their parents’ rules...

There is a great deal of research into what is and what isn’t developmentally normal for teens as well as young children. There have even been some good BBC programs on recently.

Much of ‘typical teenage’ behaviour has a physiological basis.

I do wonder if your past history is affecting your reaction. I do wonder if your son’s relationship with his father is affecting how he feels about what happened. I didn’t read the “what hit you” comment as a physical threat. Everyone should be allowed an off day and to make one mistake.

Offred
Perhaps her dp doesn’t have any friends locally. He’s been with op for 2years. Idk if he moved to be with her. It isn’t clear.

OP has already said he had other options than just going back to his family. And that she wanted to help him get on his feet.

youre basically punishing your partner for the behaviour of your ex

I am impressed that despite all the threads on mn about dealing with teens full of raging hormones and puberty worries, friendship problems, schooling etc. Not to mention threads full people saying that local teens, their teens friends are all hanging around streets, partying and having sex and its to be expected. Yet people on this thread are denying that 'real' teens ever put a foot wrong and are paragons of virtue, understanding, helpfulness and never question anything their parents ask of them.

I sincerely doubt that every teen that hasn't had a strop or a sulk is any more common in society than any other teen who has. Teens are known for their behaviour. Their bodies are so full of conflicting emotions and hormones its a wonder they can string a sentance together most of the time.

But hey maybe my occaisional stroppy is a total aberration but i will stick with him thanks.

one thing that strikes me is that if a teen is rude or blows up, there are never any posters to suggest that the situation must have been building up for a long time, with the parent or step-parent being horrible to him until he could take it no longer; there is never anyone to completely dismiss the evidence of adult eyewitnesses and suggest something totally different must have been going on and he can't have been that bad

it's like teens aren't people like the rest of us

and then in a few years they grow up and acquire children of their own- and then they are suddenly the ones that are right all the time

ime it doesn't quite work like that

I do really wonder at people who will call 16yr olds 'brats' for a sarky comment, yet think that a fully grown man screaming an inch from their face is somehow excused by said sarky comment. It's utterly disproportionate and shows a complete lack of control that I wouldn't want in my house.

All of this has been caused by the overly aggressive man who should know better.

On the upside, OP, judging from the reactions on here, it isn’t surprising you're a bit confused! However, I firmly believe you have done the right thing, and hope you leave the ball in his court.

Shoes you really believe that don't you. Would you be proud if your daughter started dating a young man like the op son. The males in my family are very protective of the girls.

I want my girls to find someone like their dad hard working, studious and who respects his mother and other people. He's far from perfect himself.

The op should be encouraging him to go on with his education. If he's struggling get a tutor. The only way to free a person from shit is to educate that person. It brings confidence and freedom. Wrapping a 16 year old up in cotton wool will achieve nothing and he will continue to play on those emotions for as long as people allow him to. Very sad I would feel so disappointed if my children wanted to work in a minimum wage job and not continue education.

Offred - Such crap... yes losing your rag once can be EA... my xh was prevented from having contact with my DD pending SC assessment after he lost it with her once. It is recorded in her notes as EA. And he was shouting in her face, he wasn’t swearing or threatening her. Is just one punch not physical abuse?

It doesn’t just depend on it being a regular pattern it can also be a single extreme behaviour.

What was your Ds age was she a teen - was it already established that your DH was Ea to you before this incident - puts completely different perspective on it

I don't know the OP's son, Happyemoj, so I can't comment on my DD dating him.

But I do know that nothing a 16yr old (or anyone else) does, means they deserve to be screamed at in the face. Nothing.

greenberet just to play Devil's advocate with your post....

"The DP is a sahd _ how does this equate to being the man of the house - men who need to be this for their ego would not look after their kids never mind someone else's as they would regard this as women's work" Maybe he accepted the role of stay at home dad because he wanted to do it and has now found it very hard. His need for 'validation' may have come out in squaring up to his step son in this way. I don't know, but it is possible.

"As for showing his true colours - surely if this was an abuser as so many of you say this would have happened way before now." What are you basing that on, is there a set period of time when people do this?

"He's been looking after two toddlers and never lost his patience" How can you possibly know this? Maybe he has not. But if he had maybe he would not tell his other half and maybe the kids would not mention it either. How could you or even she know?

"...as for Ds I expect he has learnt many of the x!s behavioural traits including lack of respect for you Op" But the OP has not said her son treats her especially disrespectfully. He may do, she may be hiding it, she may not realise it, but then again, maybe her son is nothing like his biological father.

"I think you have been brainwashed by the MN consensus - selfish for getting involved in a realtionship again, even more selfish for going on to have two children in this relationship when you already had a child"

I am not sure why you think the OP is especially effected by what you consider to be Mumsnet norms. I've read mumsnet a lot but I would not say what you consider to be Mumsnet norms are such.

"In this day and age where women are giving out the message we don't need a man we can do it all by ourselves - who is really being selfish." What does this even mean?

"The op whether knowingly or not was in a situation where she had the opportunity to show her DS what a real relationship is like - where the husband and wife work as a team and support each other regardless of who does what role." So did her partner, but he did not. He was not particularly remorseful and only seems to have become so when he was required to leave the family home. Then he chose to move far away for his own support!

"They have to form a strong bond they are the backbone of the family unit. Without this there is no unit" So how is he moving away to be with family helping to do that?

The OP has made it clear there was practical support for him to stay close by. At first I felt it was unfair on the partner, I felt a female stay at home mum would not be expected to be treated like that. But then I thought, if that were me, if dh 'threw me out' for behaviour he deemed unacceptable, I would work my darndest to work things out. I would not travel miles away for my own support. Being away from my kids would be impossible.

"the Ds has been given the message that if you are vulnerable your behaviour can be excused" What is the ds being excused from, a bit of back chat?

_ isn't this what most abusive men do when they turn victim and try and blame everyone else for their behaviour apart from taking responsibility.

"As I said our sense of reality has become squewed - the op is in danger of repeating history and setting her Ds up to be abusive. Most men become abusive in the first place as they were probably the centre of their mothers world who did everything for them" I owuld love to know where you get this from. Is there any evidence to support your idea that abusive men were the centre of their mum's eye. I mean some may well have been, and may still be, but as a pattern?

"If their own DFs felt threatened by this as they were no longer their wives main attention this would have come out somewhere." I think you are saying women have a duty to put their husbands first in all things or their sons will become abusive! Is that what you mean and where is your evidence?

As Offred says. he has removed himself.

She is also in a position to show that the only acceptable level of abusive behaviour is none. That is a lesson worth learning

Ideally yes but we don't live in an ideal world

It could also be said that the Ds having no respect for his mother is a form of abuse - give him 10 years and it will be his gf/ wife posting here saying whenever I ask him to do something I get a sarcastic comment -

The dynamic in this relationship is as a result of the absent abusive father who despite having very little to do with his Ds has let him grow up thinking it is ok to disrespect women, including his own mother.

The mother has said nothing about the son being even slightly abusive - in fact he was the victim of abuse. Now you're just making stuff up.

OP's own words - he's a bit lazy but he's generally a good lad.

Shoes & offred do you have teenage kids

Shoes a lack of respect For your mother could be seen as abuse in its own right

Nothing being made up here

The dynamic in this relationship is as a result of the absent abusive father who despite having very little to do with his Ds has let him grow up thinking it is ok to disrespect women, including his own mother.

Some mothers do minimize their children's behavior even when people can see it and hear it. He's 16 years old he is 2 years away from going to a big man prison. He needs to step up or he could end up another statistic.

Yes I have 3 children, incl 2 teen boys.

greenberet, your making stuff up that the OP has never even said, she is expressly upset by her partner's behaviour, not her son's.

What crime has he committed now? Do they put 18yr olds away for a sarky comment to their mothers? Honestly, you're laughable now.

The only abusive behaviour described in this thread is by the partner here.