My friend shocked me the way she rejected this guy

[Lifeisntbad]

Have Ncd and changed some details but this is basically it. A small group of us are on a weekend away. After a few perfectly respectful approaches from men all of whom took the hint and departed when the conversation dried up, my friend who has admittedly had a somewhat difficult time from men in the past but nothing out of the ordinary really genuinely shocked me. We had had a few drinks but weren't drunk.

I'm not sure he was even trying his luck, seemed to be in the hotel for work reasons and just started chatting. After a while my frIend turned to him and said "you're not exactly attractive and you have zero chance with any of us so save yourself the embarrassment and just leave us alone." My other friend and I were stunned and the guy just looked utterly crushed and went away without saying another word. The thing is he was actually fairly attractive and quite a good conversationalist.
Even if he wasn't that's hardly justification. I don't know what to say if we run into him today. I'm really shocked at what my friend said and us 2 others went silently to bed after. I'll speak to her about it today but I've never seen this side to her before. I really felt so sorry for him he looked so upset and shocked.

Literally laughing out loud at some of these responses!

So now men can't even attempt to talk to women?

I really would hate to be a man in today's world.

I have made friends by meeting them in bars and clubs. Generally, (though not always) people who go to bars, clubs or parties are potentially interested in making new friends - or finding new partners, so it's reasonable to expect new people to start conversations with you, or for you to start conversations with them.
But women get harassed by entitled men everywhere. Sitting in a coffee shop with a book. Having a meal with female friends. On the bus. Waiting for a train. Walking in the park. Even in bars and clubs where some/most of the people there are on the pull, the ones who actually have some manners don't push in on an existing conversation and demand attention. Men feel incredibly entitled to attention from women, any time, any place, anywhere, and a disgustlingly large percentage of men get alarmingly angry when women refuse to pay them that attention they feel they are owed.
So, yeah, it's good to be rude to unwanted, uninvited, intrusive men. The equivalent of smacking a dog's nose with a rolled-up newspaper - it might get the message across.

Women on the pull either go to places where that is common, or make it obvious.
pick up bars
What? Even as a young adult i don't think ive gone to a pick up bar ( what even is that??)or made any of the apparent 'obvious signals that i was available .
So if you go to a loud bar it means you're looking? I'll keep that in mind

I was out with a mate (we're both men) a few months back, having a drink at a bar and catching up. After a while a group of four women came to sit at the table next to us and were talking and laughing and enjoying themselves. They were a bit loud and we had to speak up to hear each other over them, but whatever. Then one of them started flirting with my mate, and another one started smiling at me.

We were both single but more focused on catching up with each other, but it's always nice to be fancied.

So one of the women asks if they can nick our crisps. We let them have the crisps, and grin, and get back to talking about our kids.

Another one (I think) asks if we'll look after their coats while they go to the loo. We say no problem. They get back from the loo.

Then one of them says, very loudly. CANT YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE BECAUSE IM FEELING VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.

I hadn't even noticed that one, to be honest. She was a bit dull, quite bland. She wasn't chatting to the others, my mate had been making eye contact, but not really chatting to, the woman next to her, and she was feeling left out.

Everything went quiet, very awkward. People turned around to look.

And I'm aware that this woman may have been pestered earlier - although it's unlikely as her friends were more attractive than her.

We had exchanged about thirty words with her whole group, and that was all initiated by them. And she got angry about it

Her friends apologised later for her behaviour.

Men can be dicks. And it's wrong to impose on others, and it's wrong to let mates impose on others.

It's also wrong to blame an innocent person for something they haven't done. Because you make yourself and your friends look like a dick. Some people's bad behaviour doesn't excuse yours.

There was a scene in the second series of The Fall, where Gillian Anderson's character is having a drink with a female colleague at a table in a bar.
Man approaches and tries to strike up a conversation with the two attractive ladies, and colleague says something along the lines of
"Oh, have you brought our drinks/food??"
Man: "err, no,"

Colleague "Aren't you the waiter?"
Man, indignantly "No, I'm not"
Colleague "Then fuck off"
That's the way to do it

"you're not exactly attractive"
No woman has had this said to her ever on being rejected. Or if she has, she's never recovered from the insult.
Erm, actually, doesn't that get said when the woman rejects the man's advances?
Head asplodes
The poor man!

apologies for inappropriate use of asterisks.

I don't think he was necessarily even trying to chat us up, he mentioned he was doing something related to his work.I didn't get time to find out what his intentions were but could well just have been wanting a chat.
I wouldn't have been interested in anything more anyway as I'm attached . FWIW I don't think he'll be approaching many women in bars anytime soon again. He looked gutted

I've been called needy for not knowing what a pick up bar is (because they don't exist any more) and because I don't flick my hair and stare at men? I think I am a bit more "with it" than anyone who does these things. Mid twenties, still going out clubbing a lot, not creeping men out with mating rituals from the internet, generally able to speak to people of any sex and make friends

OP your friend sounds cruel, I feel sorry for him as he didn't say anything offensive and got insulted for no reason.

I tell you who shouldn't be going to bars. People who are so sensitive that a complete stranger not finding them attractive scars them for life, that's who. The rest of us should be allowed to go where we jolly well like with whom we jolly well like and not be regarded as public property just because we are in a public place. That way lies Taliban territory.

What an embarrassment! There's a huge difference between being assertive and being unnecessarily cruel. I couldn't be friends with someone like that.

She sounds very nasty.

If you don't want to talk to someone then there are lots of ways to remove yourself from convocation and company with that person.

Op have you even spoken to your supposed friend? Asked her if she's ok, if he said or did anything out of line?

As for 'he won't do it again' good!! He's not owed a conversation or anything else, good thing he knows that now.

So do single women regularly feel entitled enough to insert themselves in a group of men who are out in a group of an evening?

Yes. It happens quite a lot. Just probably not to the same extent or with the same lack of social empathy as when some men do it.

I am in my mid 50s. I am probably not going to the bars where some claim on here that everyone talks to each other. I go to pubs that serve meals and drinks. Some people just go for a drink. We sit at tables and talk to those we come with. Yes people talk to each other at the bar, but unless they know you, women never go up to a table and start talking to others they don't know.

Who here hasn't been insulted for far less than approaching a group of people you don't know and expecting a conversation? I've been insulted for walking down the street, sitting on a bus, walking into a bar etc on numerous occasions - by men, of course. I'm fat, ugly, have a big nose, massive tits and so on and so forth.

I'm going to reserve my sympathy for the millions of women who are treated appallingly every day rather than this rare instance of a man being called ugly.

And did someone actually say I really would hate to be a man in today's world? In all seriousness?

Today 12:07 SillyLittleBiscuit

Who here hasn't been insulted for far less than approaching a group of people you don't know and expecting a conversation? I've been insulted for walking down the street, sitting on a bus, walking into a bar etc on numerous occasions - by men, of course. I'm fat, ugly, have a big nose, massive tits and so on and so forth.

I'm going to reserve my sympathy for the millions of women who are treated appallingly every day rather than this rare instance of a man being called ugly.

And did someone actually say I really would hate to be a man in today's world? In all seriousness?

this with bells on

Particularly apt with Alyssa milanos #metoo posts

What SillyLittleBiscuit and Graphista said.

In his post Bant even mentions that the woman who had the problem with him and his friend wasn't as attractive as the others so he doubted she would have been hassled previously anyway.

I am amazed at how bitter some people's attitude is in this thread. They seem to take pride in being tough, therefore giving more than they got in terms of rude and nasty, including to individuals who don't deserve it. This is behaving in just the way which is deplored in men.

One of my guidelines to life is "Ask for what you want, accept refusals gracefully. If you refuse, make your refusals gracefully".

I find it easy to do the first. Sometimes I see others doing the second.

...Does anyone understand that all public meeting places are required to maintain a safe environment? If you don't want to confront someone after being graceful does not work, ask the bar supervisor to intervene. They should be qualified to defuse the nuisance without any injustice being done.

It's not an 'injustice' to be told to fuck off after you have annoyed someone.

I don't think it is necessary to be polite exactly. Even fuck off or just " not interested get lost" is fine as a first brush off.

What is definitely not OK in my mind is personal insults about appearance as your opening shot. Save that for the persistent fuckers. I absolutely know women are subject to comments about personal appearance. I myself ( being no oil painting now or in my youth)have had some awful things said to me by men about my looks and in those instances all bets are off for me. However I would not do this to someone who was just maybe being a bit too forward or just not welcome to chat . Just because the majority of men are sexist arseholes does not mean I should stop treating people as individuals and react to their behaviour not that of other people who are like them (ie male).

An old friend used to react in a similar way to men when they approached us. She had issues about her looks and could be very rude. She was quite open about wanting a good looking, wealthy, educated man and was very cutting if they didn't come up to scratch.

She very much wanted women only nights and was very insistent we didn't have our partners with us. We generally went out as a mixed group and this didn't fit well with our group.

We did end up telling her to not be so rude and making a joke about it. Sometimes it seemed a jealously thing that she did as she was being ignored. How she spoke to men on evening's out when she'd been drinking was the first thing I really noticed about her being difficult. Others had picked up on stuff at work though. In the end we stopped including her as she was just too obnoxious. Her behaviour was off at work and we needed time away from her.

She's single now - her long term partner, although good looking and wealthy, hasn't been to University and that's not acceptable to her or her family.

My god the hand wringing on here! I've been spoken too far far worse by many men in the past, told by a guy he'd love to rape me because I had the sort of face that deserved it, had a guy I had never seen before come up behind me in a bar and stick his hand down my pants, been called a cunt for not replying when someone screams a "compliment" about my tits from his van window...I'm sure I'm not the only one. I bet their mates don't write posts about it online saying how terrible it was. In fact I don't think I've ever witnessed a man pulling up another guy for this sort of behaviour.

Yeah she was rude, but so what? He shouldn't have assumed women would be desperate for his company, like a lot of men seem to do...

Hey SensitiveOldAgeGuy. why on earth should women break away from their night out to get a bar supervisor to remove some twat of a bloke who's rocked up?

It means a) leaving your mate with him b) having to be 'rescued' - take the hint, unless i've arranged to meet you, i probably have literally zero interest in talking to you / making friends with you or being chatted up by you.

bumblingbovine49 If "Fuck Off" is a hint I wonder what your OTT is?

but the rest of your post is much more reasonable than some here.