My friend shocked me the way she rejected this guy

[Lifeisntbad]

Have Ncd and changed some details but this is basically it. A small group of us are on a weekend away. After a few perfectly respectful approaches from men all of whom took the hint and departed when the conversation dried up, my friend who has admittedly had a somewhat difficult time from men in the past but nothing out of the ordinary really genuinely shocked me. We had had a few drinks but weren't drunk.

I'm not sure he was even trying his luck, seemed to be in the hotel for work reasons and just started chatting. After a while my frIend turned to him and said "you're not exactly attractive and you have zero chance with any of us so save yourself the embarrassment and just leave us alone." My other friend and I were stunned and the guy just looked utterly crushed and went away without saying another word. The thing is he was actually fairly attractive and quite a good conversationalist.
Even if he wasn't that's hardly justification. I don't know what to say if we run into him today. I'm really shocked at what my friend said and us 2 others went silently to bed after. I'll speak to her about it today but I've never seen this side to her before. I really felt so sorry for him he looked so upset and shocked.

* If you don't want to confront someone after being graceful does not work, ask the bar supervisor to intervene*

But why are men so incapable of taking no for an answer?
Why don’t they stop and think that maybe,just maybe they’re not the next best thing since sliced bread and that no woman ever owes them her time abd attention,especially if she’s otherwise occupied?

SOAG I am assuming you are a man?

If so then frankly I have little time for your opinion.

I for one have been dealing with sexual harassment and assaults (yes PLURAL) since I was 10 !!

And I am FAR from in the minority - bitter? At the very fucking least!!

DAILY NUMEROUS INSTANCES of catcalling, insults, lechery, discrimination as a customer, job applicant, patient. Expected to entertain men and even BOYS in EXACTLY the way THEY wish

ALL DAY EVERY FUCKING DAY!

Well I for one am saying NO MORE.

Nancy91 Sun 15-Oct-17 20:49:35

"If you don't want any strangers to talk to you why the hell are you going to bars? People are normally there to have fun and socialise and having a drink makes you want to speak to new people."

Errr... to have a drink with a friend
to strike a business deal
to entertain a colleague
to impress an agent
to meet up with friends you haven't seen in a long time
to have a romantic date with another female
to sample the beer

If you don't want any strangers to talk to you why the hell are you going to bars?

Is this the new If you don't have children why are you on MN? ?

You must have a very narrow experience of bars if you think they can't be fun without wanting to talk to strangers, just as you must have a very narrows experience of MN if you think it is only for talking about children.

If you don't want any strangers to talk to you why the hell are you going to bars?

I like real ale. I like live music. I like to go to pubs and enjoy both.

I'm not really interested in making new friends or talking to strangers. I go, despite the volume of the music, for a quiet head.

Really can't be bothered to continue with this, the friend from the OP doesn't seem to have good social skills, even her own friends don't seem to like her.

It is legal to try to have a conversation with someone at a bar. It's common. Lots of people like to meet new people. It's going to keep happening. Hopefully it will eventually drive out the miserable gits

Nancy have you seen the #metoo thing do you even GET incidents like this are part of the problem? MEN like this are part of the problem?

Jesus do some proper reading on rape CULTURE I'm not saying it's the same as rape I'm saying it CONTRIBUTES to the CULTURE of entitlement men have to women's time, attention and ultimately bodies.

But then I'm not surprised you no longer want to 'engage' with those of us that get that because the cognitive dissonance would probably freak you out

Very depressing reading this thread. So many posters either seem to lack all social skills themselves or to live in a world where many, many others lack social skills.

It isn't hard to communicate what you want without being rude.

I think it's very much an English thing and it makes me so depressed.

OP Your mate was fine, that was quite mild IME.

Nastiest one I had was when I was in my late teens. I saw a girl in a club, I thought she'd smiled and made a bit of eye contact but perhaps that was to some guy behind me or maybe she had and was setting me up for a prank.

I went up to her and asked if she'd like to dance, she looked me up and down and loudly said "I'm not that fucking desperate", all her friends fell about laughing, I don't know if they all heard what she said or whether it was the look in my face. I was quite shy then and felt crushed!

If you don't want to confront someone after being graceful does not work, ask the bar supervisor to intervene. They should be qualified to defuse the nuisance without any injustice being done.

Ahahahahaha! Bar supervisors do not kick out annoying men just because they are hassling groups of women. IME, they don't even kick out men who are groping women "because I never saw it love, and he says it wasn't him". They really don't care as long as there are no actual fights breaking out. And I say that as a former bar supervisor.

And people handwringing about how men would never say anything so mean and bitchy, please google "pull a pig", or "you've been pigged". Men say stuff like this ALL THE TIME.

Sashkin Tue 17-Oct-17 01:30:51
Bar supervisors do not kick out annoying men just because they are hassling groups of women. They really don't care as long as there are no actual fights breaking out. And I say that as a former bar supervisor.

Are you saying as a bar super you did not care enough to create a better environment?

And people handwringing about how men would never say anything so mean and bitchy, please google "pull a pig", or "you've been pigged". Men say stuff like this ALL THE TIME.
Where in this thread has anyone said that? The man described by the OP didn't do that.

Jesus do some proper reading on rape CULTURE I'm not saying it's the same as rape I'm saying it CONTRIBUTES to the CULTURE of entitlement men have to women's time, attention and ultimately bodies.
Yes, I have been doing that since Brownmiller's "Against Our Will".

But then I'm not surprised you no longer want to 'engage' with those of us that get that because the cognitive dissonance would probably freak you out
Yet here I am engaging. Just trying to put the view that there are alternatives to an escalation of nastiness. Any educator will tell you that if you want real change, as well as punishing unwanted behaviour, you need to model the desired behaviour, part of which is not using excessive or unjust punishments.

The average wife - No she doesn’t have to talk to him or entertain him, but there’s no need to be rude about it!

Well, I met my husband in a pub. I am glad he spoke to me but he didn't come gate crashing my conversations with other women. I also made it clear I was up to talking to him. You can meet people in a bar and still expect men not to gatecrash your group. There are signs when someone is actually looking to speak to people.

She could have told him to fuck off a bit more politely I guess, but she didn't owe him politeness and after a few times of random men coming up to you all I assume she had just had enough. And rightly so.

I don't feel sorry for him. Perhaps in future he will learn to tell the difference between women who are enjoying their friend's company and those who are hoping to meet new people.

Mantegnaria

Very depressing reading this thread. So many posters either seem to lack all social skills themselves or to live in a world where many, many others lack social skills. It isn't hard to communicate what you want without being rude. I think it's very much an English thing and it makes me so depressed.
I agree, and one of the most important social skills is being able to handle people who lack social skills.

One of the things the English were pitied for was not speaking to fellow commuters on the train after sitting with them for 20 years. I say this as an Aussie with 4 English grandparents and an English mother. She used to use the phrase "not the done thing". I have read that on MN a couple of times after not hearing it for 40 years. I value my English heritage and want to stay in touch with it. Only the good parts of course.

DH and I go out socially all the time and we have never EVER been approached by a man wanting to be friendly. DH travels for work and has done so about once a week for the last 25 years and has also NEVER been approached by one of these many friendly men who are just making conversation.

And yet you and your friends got several approaches on one night. I wonder why this is.

Why are DH and I not expected to stop what we are talking about and make polite conversation with any random man who approaches us ?

Graphista Mon 16-Oct-17 19:00:59

SOAG I am assuming you are a man?
presumably for my sins in a previous life, yes.
If so then frankly I have little time for your opinion.
I am calling you for sexism. The opinion of a gender other than your own has no possible value.
If you expect to achieve your NO MORE ideal below, you need to learn how to engage with and change the opinions of men, or withdraw from their company altogether.

I for one have been dealing with sexual harassment and assaults (yes PLURAL) since I was 10 !! And I am FAR from in the minority - bitter? At the very fucking least!!
^DAILY NUMEROUS INSTANCES of catcalling, insults, lechery, discrimination as a customer, job applicant, patient. Expected to entertain men and even BOYS in EXACTLY the way THEY wish
ALL DAY EVERY FUCKING DAY! Well I for one am saying NO MORE.^

So you support a culture of nastiness on your own part as a response to nastiness. Eventually the spaces you inhabit will be populated with your nasty self and friends, and a lot of nasty thick-skinned men who are the only ones who can tolerate your treatment. Then some women will be asking as they do already "Where are all the nice men?"

No, I've never been approached by one of these friendly men looking for friends when I've been in mixed company or with a boyfriend/my exh either.

These friendly men looking for friends only seem interested in talking to single, or groups of, women.

As usual, if there are men who are genuinely approaching women for a friendly chat without having even thought "ooh she's attractive" or "I wouldn't say no..." or "I'll have me a piece of that!" or whatever, then the people they need to be angry at are the men who treat women so badly that they make women wary. Not the women themselves for having 'negatives outweigh the positives' experiences of men.

I had my first unwanted and utterly inappropriate physical/verbal attention from a man when I was 10. I had my most recent exactly 2 weeks ago. Admittedly, they are becoming less now that I am over 40, but it's so commonplace that I am mindful of any man who makes contact with me because the number of men who do so trying to get in my knickers far outweighs the number of men who've just wanted a friendly chat.

I wouldn't respond in the way the OP's friend did, but I certainly don't entertain their nonsense.

Kr1st1na Tue 17-Oct-17 04:20:30

I travelled to the UK with DW about 12 years ago. We were approached quite a few times by people who made friendly conversation of the guiding visitors sort. We asked ourselves "Where is that English Reserve we've been told about?

I travelled alone on the train in the USA, and was approached often by women and men of varying ages who were keen to point out the salient features of their cities. Almost to a professional PR level.

I wonder if people project an image on a subliminal level that they are unaware of.

And yet you [the OP]and your friends got several approaches on one night. I wonder why this is.

The OP was "away" she said. Maybe the venue was more of a subtle "pickup joint" than she knew.

PUJ itself being a belittling demeaning term.

@SensitiveOldAgeGuy I’m not English, how does that compute with your brilliant theory?

SOAG

I can tell the difference between a local guiding a tourist in a friendly manner and a man attempting to infiltrate a group of women on a night out.

I've experienced both. HTH.

I think we've got us another sea lion. Pass the fish bucket, someone.