My friend shocked me the way she rejected this guy

[Lifeisntbad]

Have Ncd and changed some details but this is basically it. A small group of us are on a weekend away. After a few perfectly respectful approaches from men all of whom took the hint and departed when the conversation dried up, my friend who has admittedly had a somewhat difficult time from men in the past but nothing out of the ordinary really genuinely shocked me. We had had a few drinks but weren't drunk.

I'm not sure he was even trying his luck, seemed to be in the hotel for work reasons and just started chatting. After a while my frIend turned to him and said "you're not exactly attractive and you have zero chance with any of us so save yourself the embarrassment and just leave us alone." My other friend and I were stunned and the guy just looked utterly crushed and went away without saying another word. The thing is he was actually fairly attractive and quite a good conversationalist.
Even if he wasn't that's hardly justification. I don't know what to say if we run into him today. I'm really shocked at what my friend said and us 2 others went silently to bed after. I'll speak to her about it today but I've never seen this side to her before. I really felt so sorry for him he looked so upset and shocked.

Given that my mum and my dad met in a pub when both out with other groups I am always sympathetic to the idea that a man politely trying to say hello is ok. After all, if my mum was in the fuck of to all men who approach kind of woman, then I wouldnt be here.

Women sitting chatting to each other are not looking for a man.

Nope. Wrong. 40 years of years being on this planet shows you are wrong. Sibling with 37 years also provides a follow-up case study.

Still, I suppose these days it can be a race to the bottom in terms of human interaction. Fuck offs on one side and frigid cows on the other. Neither that useful really.

I would have left the friend alone and immediately joined the man and his friends. I don't associate with women like that .

As to meeting potential new partners: people do go out on the pull and that's fine. Women even go out in groups, on the pull, but when that is what they are doing, they are going to be looking around at men, checking them out, hitting the dancefloor and generally showing they are open to making new friends.
Women sitting chatting to each other are not looking for a man.

I don't think this distinction is even remotely clear.

When I was single, I went to bars with girlfriends; we were interested in meeting men. We didn't just gaze off into the distance, looking at men; we had fun and talked amongst ourselves.

How are men, or indeed women, supposed to know the difference?

Is this a reverse?

Personally I get sick to the back teeth of men assuming that a group of women who are sat as a closed group or a single woman minding her own business must bet dying for their company. As pp said, you wouldn't interrupt any other social group on the assumption they want you to join them.

I might not use the same phrasing but this was at least the 4th interruption according to the OP how many times are we supposed to be endlessly polite to unwanted attention?

I get this if I'm in a restaurant on my own with my iPad or with women friends - I'm in my bloody 50s. I particularly love it when when they spot a wedding ring on one of us and say 'oh I didn't spot you were married' because obviously if we didn't already have an owner we would be all over them

It's so weird when women get out of their way to defend a man's right to intrude on the time and space of another woman.

Well she was extremely rude

Must admit I have also on occasion been extremely rude to cut through the bs and get a man to go away now.

I really doubt he is agonising over it btw. Probably moved right on to the next woman.

at the idea that women will be on the dance floor gazing longingly around the room if they are looking for a man.

I don't know what bars you go to but that's not how it works. People approach people for a chat. As I've said, I have made lots of male friends this way. I'm friendly and I like other friendly people coming to speak to me.

Why the hell would you go to these places if you thought all the men just wanted to have sex with you? That would be horrible if it was true and I would never go on a night out again! Good job it's not like that in reality.

It's so weird when women get out of their way to defend a man's right to intrude on the time and space of another woman.

I'm afraid you don't speak for the entire sex. Some women want men to approach them. Others don't.

at the idea that women will be on the dance floor gazing longingly around the room if they are looking for a man.

I had a chuckle at that one too.

Women alone are constantly pestered by men, when they are reading, wearing headphones, looking at their phones, just going about their business: when they are comfortably occupied and giving no indication at all that they want to be approached. There is a huge problem of men feeling entitled to women's attention. There is also the huge problem that women who reject men's unwanted, uninvited approaches are quite likely to be verbally abused or even assaulted. So crushing men's spirits when they make pests of themselves is a Good Thing and OP's friend was brave as well as right.

Women on the pull either go to places where that is common, or make it obvious.
I go out very regularly with groups of women - 2 or 3 times a week - and no men. We do not go to places where most are on the pull. We are women in our 50s. And yet we get men coming over to join us uninvited, sitting at our table. No I wouldn't fucking do that to a table of people. You might say in passing to someone - nice dog you have, or make a tiny remark. You don't fucking sit down and join another group of people without being invited. That is fucking rude.

And no, it is not always men on the pull. Sometimes it is I suspect a lonely man who feels entitled to join us and start dominating the conversation. Fuck off.

I don't go on big nights out anymore, not for several years! But I should be able to have a pub lunch with my sister or catch up with a friend, or even sit on a train without being expected to entertain some random man who has decided he is entitled to my attention. And rejecting them politely is a risk in itself. They often either ignore your wishes or get nasty.

Women alone are constantly pestered by men, when they are reading, wearing headphones, looking at their phones, just going about their business: when they are comfortably occupied and giving no indication at all that they want to be approached.

Oh, the OP's friend was wearing headphones. What a pest! I stand corrected.

Women on the pull either go to places where that is common, or make it obvious.

I'd love to know how you define 'making it obvious'.

And I am friendly. I will char to someone next to me at the bar, someone on the next table, or sitting next to me at the theatre. I also have social skills and a lack of bloody entitlement. So if I chat to someone at the bar and they make minimal polite responses, I stop talking to them. I don't feel entitled to regale them with long stories about myself. It is men who behave this way, not women. The ONLY woman who I have met who behaves like this is an older woman with obvious learning difficulties who goes to my local. But that is totally understandable.

Museumofcurry Basic social skills tell you whether someone welcomes you chatting to them or not. If you can't tell, leave them alone.

The last time I - extremely politely - asked a man in a bar to stop touching me on the arm, leg and shoulder, he stormed off in a massive male tanty, after telling his other pals 'to not waste their time with a pair of frigid bitches like me and DF'.

To be honest, think I'll try your friends approach next time.

I have/had a friend like this.
If any of our single friends liked a guy, she would still be verbally abusive. She would tell me that a guy was ‘not good looking enough’. In front of him.
We argued about this so many times. She always seemed to go for abusive guys. I would never dream of criticizing her choice of men, unless asked for my opinion.
Another horrible, horrible thing she would do, if offered a drink by a man she deemed ‘unacceptable’, was to ask them to buy champagne for our entire group - then ignore them afterwards.
We all hated it, and would encourage the poor guys to ignore her.
Some women are totally inconsiderate and cruel.

Women on the pull either go to places where that is common, or make it obvious.

I'd love to know how you define 'making it obvious'.

Basic social skills tell you whether someone welcomes you chatting to them or not. If you can't tell, leave them alone

I think you're avoiding my question, but that's fine.

Those who do not tend to go out only with women to places that are not pulling places, might not understand this. As I said I go out 2-3 nights a week with only groups of women. And I am not going to pulling places. Believe me it is an issue. Fucking entitled men are a big issue. And no I am not going to feel sorry because a man's feelings were hurt when he was rude and entitled first. Learn some bloody manners and basic social skills.

On reddit this would end up on r/thathappened.

I'd love to know how you define 'making it obvious'

Making eye contact. Glancing around the room. Open body language. Flicking hair. Smiling at you. It’s not rocket science.

Ahhh but @brasty what if some woman in that place might want make attention?
That makes it all ok obviously.

MuseumofCurry If someone is sitting reading a book, do you think it is okay to go and talk to them? If a group of woman are having lunch together, do you think it is okay to approach them? If a group of woman are sitting in a pub, do you think it is okay to just go up and sit down and start talking to them?

Male*