"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's August 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - Aug 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi all, haven’t been here for a while. Have been doing the emotional literacy course which has been massively helpful but don’t have much spare time at the moment.
ste hope you’re still around. Thanks for your kind words and sorry you’re finding things tough at the moment.
So after 7 months of hearing nothing from my m, she turned up unannounced the other evening with birthday presents for me and dh (our birthdays were months ago) and presents for the kids who both have their birthdays soon. Thankfully I was getting my daughter to bed and dh answered the door and didn’t let her in. Apparently she was acting like everything was ok and seemed quite put out when he said it wasn’t a good time as she thought the kids would already be in bed. I really thought that I wouldn’t hear from her again but I should have guessed that she would do this. So now I’ve decided to send her a no contact letter. I have no clue what to write but I just know that 7 months without her in my life meant that I was starting to feel better and I can’t live with her just turning up whenever she feels like it. The bit that makes me most frustrated is that there is still a tiny part of me that blames myself for our lack of relationship and I still question if I’m overreacting. Sorry just to come here and dump all of this but needed to get it out somewhere.

SleepyHay

Were the presents accepted?. I hope they were declined and if not should be disposed of now through the bin or a charity shop. Do not give these things any more power.

Some toxic people do use unwanted items to further manipulate and otherwise guilt their offspring with. These things after all were not wanted. These are also used to show how "good" a mother she is. This is her way of telling you also that she is not going to let go easily.

Its not you, its her. You are not overreacting nor are to blame for a lack of relationship. Your own FOG may be leading you into thinking otherwise.

These links may be helpful to you re going no contact. Personally I would not write her a letter because this could be used by her against you to verbally attack you with. Such toxic people like your mother really do like nothing more than a fight and the last word.

outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/no-contact

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/no-contact/

SleepyHay

This is also a link I would like to share with you re your mother's hoovering behaviours.

abusesanctuary.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/when-toxic-people-start-hoovering.html

Thanks for your reply atilla.
My dh did take the presents as he didn’t really know what to do.
I’ll be writing her a letter asking her not to contact me or my family again. Dh is going to return the presents to her along with the letter.
Like it says on one of the links you posted, the hardest part is giving up the hope that one day they’ll change. I’ve reached the point though where I can no longer carry on with the situation as it is. And while it’s not affecting my children now, as they are so young, it will in the future and there’s no way I want them to have to deal with her craziness.

Does anyone else feel relieved and like going NC is an anticlimax when they finally take/force that step?

Things came to a head with my mother on Monday when I took the decision to call her out on her lack of support. She’s known that for the last 2-3 months I’ve been on the cusp of breaking. Not once has she visited or called me to find out how I was, or called back when I’ve called and left a message/texted asking her to call me back. I finally confronted her on it knowing full well she couldn’t cope with me calling her out on it and would probably just get up and walk out of my life.

What shocked me was her first response when I asked where the hell she’d been when I needed her the most? Even I didn’t expect this little gem

Instead of apologising and then making up an excuse, or even making up an excuse without the apology, she instead said ‘How do you think I feel!’ Unbe-fucking-leiveable!

Even I never saw that one coming and I’m so glad my dad and step mum were there to witness it. They were shocked but my dad (they were married for 23 years) did as expected and tried to minimise it as you’d expect after being conditioned to behave like this for so many years.

This was just the latest in a lifetime of extremely shitty things I’d never do to my daughter and that I’d minimised in my lifetime and never dared mention knowing that if I did she’d drop me.

I actually find her reaction funny and I’m so relieved because it was so beyond what even I thought was possible it’s solidified the need to remain NC and never try to get her to acknowledge her past behaviour or to change. I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. My daughter and I deserve better.

Joysmum - Hi 😊
Just read your post and it remind's me of my current situation. I called my mum up on her lack of support (when she has a man in her life) when I needed her. I didn't get chance to mention her emotional unavailability as she was angry I had confronted her. This also is only one of a long list of shitty things I wouldn't do to my dd's. I think thats what makes me feel more strongly about NC. I can not for one minute understand her behaviour as a mother and lack of compassion. We haven't spoken in 2 weeks. She hasn't attempted to call. I know how she works, she is very selfish.
I feel like a weight has been lifted too. The longer it goes on, the more it proves how little I mean to her.
Good luck!

Sleepy - I hope the returning of the presents and letter doesn’t result in your m dialling the crazy behaviour up a notch!

Joys Mum - yes the relief at having some space and peace when you go NC is lovely. I wish I could keep it up.

Steve hope your operations etc go ok and you are on the road to recovery soon.

As for me, grey rock is hard!

We have a family wedding to go to shortly, so I’m trying to be civil to M and to just let the relationship drift.

As expected, the crazy gene had kicked in because I haven’t gone back to “doing as I’m told” after our last argument.

Texts all the time and being pissed of if I don’t respond.

She’s visiting to see the kids next weekend, and has already text to confirm she has bought presents (not that we are near Christmas or anything...).

Sigh, flying monkeys were easier to handle!

Hi All, I have posted here a few times before but I NC for the Stately Home just because there are identifiable details in some posts...

I am just posting this to get it out really... DM is a massive narc and DSD is lovely in general but an enabler. For most of my life I have been trying to get their approval, which as we know is impossible. When I was 11 they moved to an isolated area abroad, pre internet, with no phone and no intention of installing one and where the post takes a week. DM essentially cut herself off from me without a thought, but obviously blamed me for not keeping in touch.

As years have gone by we have started to get along better, and have more frequent contact due to internet etc, plus she finally got a phone installed. But the relationship is always on her terms - I always visit her, in fact she has been to visit me 4 times since I was 11 (I am 41) and all of those times were close together and a bit of a novelty I think. She will involve herself in my life where there are bragging rights or some sort of attention to be gained. I am sure she loves me in her own way but I am convinced she has never been maternal or really wanted children but had me because my DF wanted kids.

Anyway - I now have three children of my own, one of whom she has never met because she won't make arrangements to visit and thinks we should visit her. I am not keen to uproot my entire family for a long journey with two small children and one infant.

I didn't expect any different to be honest, she has ever been the same. So why am I feeling sad about it? Once again she has been interested for the novelty but it's now obviously worn off. How can she value me so little and my lovely little family?

Hi Gollum,

You perhaps still hope on some innate level that she will properly say sorry for treating you so poorly and change for the better. You also have two qualities that she absolutely lacks; empathy and insight and that is probably why you feel sad also. I cannot emphasise enough the narcissist's sheer lack of empathy.

Unfortunately as you well know, such people like your mother do not change. I would certainly not subject either yourself or just as importantly your children to them under any circumstances. Any interactions from you all just gives her narcissistic supply.

As you realise she is a narcissist and like all such disordered females need a willing enabler to help them. You to your credit also recognise your stepdad as an enabler.

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist and the "relationship" for what it is has been solely on her terms. You would not have put up with this from a friend, your mother is really no different.

I would further lower all contact with them to a point of zero contact and certainly not drag yourselves goodness knows how many miles to see them. No good will come of doing so.

Gollum I’m so sorry you’re feeling so bad.

As Atilla says, it’s because you still have the smallest of hope she’ll change and be good enough.

I guess this is why I’m relieved and so comfortable with my situation. I know what my mother is like. She actually moved hundreds of miles away and ghosted me so I didn’t know. All because she’d been asked to use a litter tray for her cats as they were pissing all over my floors. She’d been living with us without paying rent for over a year when it should of been 6 weeks but never offered.

There’s so many really big bad things I’ve let slide in addition to the small things we ignore because we think it’s petty and they aren’t serious enough to make a stand on.

On and off reader of this thread, but first time poster. I am curious about whether I was subject to a toxic upbringing. I have tried to write this post several times but every time I write it I feel like its so stupid.

I had a twin sister who died before we were one. I strongly suspect my parents never dealt with that, and I somehow grew up thinking that I was supposed to make up for their loss. Before I reached secondary school I was depressed and self harming in secret (either my parents didn't know or they ignored it). My parents constantly told me how selfish I was, and I used to get so upset because I was hiding my depression from them so that they would have at least one 'happy normal daughter' (words I used to tell myself).

My father has a temper and has to have everything his own way. I am now mid 30s and we have today almost had an argument which caused me to reflect on my childhood. Actually much of it I don't remember, but I remember constantly having to adjust my personality and behaviour so as to not escalate my father's temper. Today this happened again and I have been very upset and angry about it because he was being a dickhead and I couldn't say it (in politer terms than that of course!)

In the past my father has joked about me being raped (when I was mid-20s - I actually have been raped & assaulted but my parents don't know this) and when I was bullied as a teen he joined in with their taunting. I've also come to realise in the last few months (or acknowledge, I did already know this) that he is very misogynistic. He sees me as a grandchild farm (I don't want kids) and he thinks women should clean up after him etc. etc.

My mother enables his behaviour, but she has insecurity issues of her own. She brought me up to believe I just had to 'smile and nod' when people do shitty things (which has had a knock on effect on what I see to be a healthy relationship). She also used to get drunk and tell me how boring I was and how difficult it was to have a conversation with me (I was very socially anxious - still am a bit - and they used to always shout at me for doing the 'wrong' thing, so by my teens/20s I just shut up full stop). If we ever went out anywhere she would thrust the return train/bus ticket at me and tell me she knew I didn't want to spend the time with her and that I should go off on my own. I desperately wanted a bond with her but she made it so difficult.

After several poor relationships with boyfriends, I have now settled down with someone who really values me. When he came in to my life I realised I hadn't felt genuinely loved by a person since my grandmother had died several years previously. I think he has re-adjusted my sense of self worth and now I can think back to my childhood a bit more clearly and be sad I wasted so much time being unhappy.

Crikey, I'm sorry that was so long - once I got going I couldn't stop.

Returned the presents and a short note saying basically due to her complete lack of interest in me and my children I no longer wanted her in my life. I didn’t see the point in going into detail about how horrible she can be and how unsupportive she has been.
My DF called several times last night and eventually my DH spoke to him. He said it was all a terrible misunderstanding and she had been trying to contact me but had been calling the wrong number. I’ve had the same phone number for the last 10 years and she’s managed to call it when she wants something! It’s so fucking ridiculous, writing it down I can see that. I know if I had spoken to him last night that my first reaction would be to accept this and just sweep everything under the carpet.
My DH said I would call him back today. I don’t know what to do. I thought I could maybe have a relationship with my dad but I’m so angry at the moment.
Dancer - they go crazy when you aren’t acting your part and don’t do what they want. They need the control. Stay strong, you have every right to be you.
Gollum - can I send my M to go and live with yours? They sound quite similar. My M is only interested when she needs some gossip.
K9 - I really struggled with the idea that my childhood was abusive. It’s hard to accept and I still have moments when I question it. I think that if another person consistently makes you feel worthless and being around them leaves you feeling bad then it’s not a healthy relationship. Personally I feel that it’s abusive if you are unable to walk away from them. So for example if it’s a parent and you are a child or if they use emotional blackmail or threats to stop you leaving. You don’t have to spend your life in fear of another person. Nobody has the right to do that to you.

SleepyHay

Yet again your father is acting as his wife's enabler and hatchet man; he cannot be at all relied upon either. I would think the return of the presents and letter to them will go down very badly and your letter could well be used against you. I would also now block their number; you do not need such incessant calls because that really amounts to harassment.

I also do not think that this letter you've sent will be the end of things; they will still try and hoover you back into their dysfunctional world. You may well hear of a health scare next and one of them having tests.

Why on why did your DH tell your dad that you would call back today?. Do not do so!. I presume he comes from a nice and emotionally healthy family unit, that is the only reason that I can think of to explain such misguided thought. He needs to raise his boundaries and realise that the "normal" rules do not work with dysfunctional families of origin like yours. Your dad has also failed you here because he is a bystander and weak willed; he has done exactly as his wife has told him to do, he did her bidding. He would much rather you cop her wrath than he and he has never protected you from her excesses of behaviour.

In-out-in-out-in, I feel like a flipping yo yo here but I keep coming back as you all have good advice and I really need a kick up the arse.

I have written a letter to my parents. Why? because I need to get things off my chest and even if they don't read it all I will finally have done my best in making my feelings known without being interrupted or dismissed. It holds few punches so I have debated sending it, asked permission here to send it! It will be sent, but there is still the fear there of what might happen afterwards.

It comes down to me seeing my mother recently in the supermarket - twice. The first time she disappeared down an aisle sharpish, so I figured sod her. there was no way she couldn't have seen me. The second time I was foolish and approached her, after she had dived down the aisle. It started the random 'conversational' text messages again. I should have let the sleeping dog lie. But I had the 'did you get the house?' (We asked them very reluctantly to guarantor us and they eventually declined), which means they know where we live, conversation in the supermarket and then the 'i want to stay in touch' text message later, followed by 'if you don't want to reply then say'. So I have come to the final conclusion that I need to put this to rest once and for all. I do not want my parents randomly turning up at my new home to berate and gesticulate at me, alone and with no support, before refusing to leave my house.

I don't want my children subjected to their continued misery and grumpiness whenever we have visited, tolerated simply because we were going to their home and could leave at the earliest opportunity. But not before receiving digs about how poorly behaved and noisy the children were. If we don't mention them then the children don't. So they aren't missing them at all.

I don't want them bad-mousing my husband when he has done them no wrong. But of course it will be all his fault that i am saying these things. Nothing to do with my many, many attempts over the years.

So an envelope and a stamp and off it goes. I don't even care that its nearly xmas and what it might do. so many of my childhood xmases were spent on tenterhooks waiting for my dad to explode over some minor thing that it is of no consequence to me if their xmas gets ruined.

i also need to deal with it because i am very aware of repeating the same disfuntion with my own children and if i don't resolve it now, i will be in the same situation as my parents when our children are grown.

Hi. I posted on here a few times a while ago but I am in desperate need of advice again. If you search my username you can see the background information but to summarise... Toxic and controlling mil. Enabling and weak fil. Golden child sil. I am married to scapegoat dh and we have dc. Mil is undermining to me and dh especially since we became parents and has tried to split us up a few times. I think because spending time with me and my family made dh (slowly) question some of his family dynamics. Then when mil realised trying to split us up wouldn't work she got increasingly venomous towards me. She did something very bad towards me and dh said that he wanted us to be nc (first time he ever contemplated this) .

So we have been nc for a few stress-free months (apart from mil approaching our dc in public places when I am with them, we live in the same town, and pushing me to the side or ignoring me, after each time we send the same text about how it is not appropriate to approach them and then don't engage when she texts back about missing them or how they must miss her).

current situation
Mil has texted to say she wants to meet me and dh to apologise. Dh is hopeful for a reconciliation (especially as it is close to Christmas) but says it will depend on what she says but we should hear her out. We are meeting her next week. I think it highly unlikely that she acknowledges what she has done or takes responsibility, a previous text was along the lines of I'm sorry that you (me and dh) overreacted.

advice needed
Please can you help me with a couple of questions to ask her? We will definitely meet her so I need to feel a bit more confident /prepared. I thought I might let her do the talking and then ask something about where does she think it went wrong in our relationship? What do you think??? Any ideas of what I can say would be great because there is a real risk that I will just clam up (she is quite formidable and domineering) but if I can practice something I may be able to say it.

Any ideas gratefully received. Thank you

Go away I would ask what she is apologising for ? Keep repeating that question when she dodges it.

How does she think she could behave differently in the future?

Goaway

It is not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist and agreeing to any meeting at all was a mistake let alone attending such a thing. I can see why he's done it because he is the scapegoat and well trained too in that role (he is very afraid of her for one thing). Where is this going to be held; its also a bad move if it is not in a public place like for instance a café.

I would now cancel the meeting; this will simply be used by her and her enabler of a husband (women like his mother always need a willing enabler to help them) to have a right old go at both of you. She will be right and play the victim here. Such disordered of thinking people also like nothing more than a fight and the last word and such a meeting will give her ample opportunity. This will not go well and nothing either of you say will make any difference, that could also be used against you as well. Such people also never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

There will be no reconciliation; just more of what she has given you in the past. She has done more than enough harm. Time to raise your boundaries higher and have no part of this.

Aaaaaaand I've been ignored again. There is no denying mother must have seen me, I practically walked into her and stood there in shock! Nothing. Just continued to look at Christmas cards, so I walked away.

Thank you star for your ideas and atilla your advice

Meeting is in a pub which we chose so there is help if we need it and we can leave if we need to.

atilla a lot of your post makes sense to me but I think it is the prospect of Christmas coming and that there is there little part of him which hopes she will change which really wants a reconciliation. I know he has my back but I also know that the family must always play to her tune, it has taken a lot for dh to not to this and he has rocked the boat . I think I need to talk to dh about expectations and make an agreement about what we do.

mini I am not good with advice in these situations, I come on here to get it! but I just wanted to say hello 👋 and you are not ignored here

Unfortunately many adult children of narcissists hope for a change from their narcissistic parent. ACONs often fall into this trap despite their own experiences to the contrary.

Re your comment:-

"I think I need to talk to dh about expectations and make an agreement about what we do"

That should have already happened; this shows me also that neither of you are really prepared here re meeting his mother (and possibly her enabler of a H in tow). You are already outgunned here and your H could end up freezing emotionally in her presence, agreeing with her and/or throwing you under the bus. At the very least you need a shared and agreed code word to indicate that the meeting is at an end and be prepared to leave very quickly. I would still not meet up with her at all though even after your H has seen a therapist re his dysfunctional family of origin. He has to start on his own recovery from his mother.

How do you yourself think this is going to pan out?.

This is what I think will happen.

Mil will want to be there first so she welcomes /hosts. She will want to kiss dh on the cheek. (I will want to be there first and pick the table /escape route).
Mil will gush and thank us for opportunity to apologise and then go on to say that the situation is tearing her up and basically talk about how it is for her.
She will then say we are depriving the dc of grandparent time and we are not being fair to them.
Fil will be there. He will be quiet until near the end where he will tell us we have broken mils heart and try to guilt trip dh and make him conform.
Mil will want to know when she can see the dc. (dh and I have agreed that she cannot until she has built relationships with us. She can only build back relationships with us depending on what she says when we meet. She will hate this. She will want to see dc. She will say they must be missing her terribly. They do not ask about her. When they see her in town it's a matter of fact they just say there is granny and that's it. They don't rush to her).

I think this is how it will go. Writing it down has helped me so what dh and I need to agree I. E. No kisses etc. I think we need to think about do we just let her talk and not say how we feel?

P. S. What is ACON please?

Goaway,

ACON - Adult child of narcissist.

The meeting should be very formally conducted if it does take place. No physical contact of any sort. You also need in advance to decide on a safe codeword for leaving. It is also imperative that you are both on the same page re these people, you must absolutely present a united front.

How does he think this is going to play out?. What do you and he want from this meeting?. If for instance you want an apology you may get a non apology along the lines of, "I'm sorry you feel that way".

His mother will want to take control from the very start so if you do meet (and I still advise you not to do so) then you need to get your words in first and then prepare to leave immediately thereafter. I do not think your H is strong enough to confront his mother (he has not seemingly done any work on this let alone any recovery from his parents) and will perhaps revert to child like mode in her presence or otherwise freeze.

You could both come off feeling far worse than you already do and you already know that your children do not miss them. What you need to bear in mind as well is that disordered of thinking people like his mother do not ever want to build a relationship; you are but bit part players with her at the centre of her universe. You are not dealing with reasonable people here so the normal rules of families go out the window, trying to reason with the craziness is a waste of effort. You as people do not matter one iota to her. She will use you and in turn your children as further narcissistic supply if she does get to see them and they certainly need to stay away from her emotional manipulations. You all need as a family to stay well away from his parents.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and
your DHs overall roles here has not changed. He is still very much the scapegoat for all their inherent ills and as a result of that his whole family unit get scapegoated.

SleepyHay

Thanks for your reply. I agree that its hard to accept and I am only just starting to. I've joked about my parents behaviour in the past but its taken me a long time to realise its perhaps abusive. Also, we have been getting along ok for a few years and I think I've tried to bury my upset from before. This latest outburst sent me right back to childhood, but its the first time since I had some counselling and I think that's made me realise I don't have to put up with being treated like this. My mother barely said two words to me when we met on our regular social meeting earlier this week (just the two of us, so it was a bit difficult!). My fear is I'll fall out with my dad and then lose the relationship with my mum too (its been hard work on my part certainly to develop a bond with her).

Other posters' posting makes for difficult reading, but in some cases inspiring and comforting. I can't offer any help but I'm listening and rooting for you.