"But we took you to Stately Homes" - survivors of dysfunctional and toxic families

[toomuchtooold]

It's August 2017, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - Aug 2017
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi Downstairs I'm not an expert and have no training or anything so I'm only speaking from the viewpoint of someone from a dysfunctional family.

My OH knew my parents for ten years before I 'discovered' they were actually very toxic, when I blurted everything out to him he just looked at me and simply said 'I've always thought they were mad'. It's not been an easy ride over this past year but looking back my OH has supported me by only speaking about them when I initiate a conversation, this has meant that if I'm not thinking about them then I'm not being reminded, that space I am grateful for as I really do need it. I have made all the decisions when it comes to when I see them or for how long and my OH has gone along with it even when I've not been consistent, if it's been a hard decision for me he'll say that he thinks I'm doing the right thing.

I suppose on the surface that it doesn't look like he's done a great deal, but, he has. He's given me space to work things out but been there with wise words when I can't. I don't think I'd have faired so well if he had done more, this is because since my discovery I've been very sensitive and conscious of people who are trying to manipulate me to the point of paranoia at times.

The other thing that has helped is his take on the FOG. Especially the Obligation. He said that he worked out a very long time ago, when his mother tried something similar, that children are not obligated to be there for their parents, it's 100% the other way round. My OH's support with this in particular has been freeing for me, I didn't realise just how much I did out of obligation until I started to cut back. It's not been easy, I've had a shed load of heartache and disappointment to deal with going right right back BUT at least I don't hate myself anymore.

Thank you nora that really helps. as it’s so recent every so often he will mention them or he will see something on Facebook from some of the other relatives and he does seem upset but that’s a good tip about not talking about it unless he broaches the subject. I feel a useless tbh

Facebook doesn't help at all, not all people are being genuine on there.

It's early days yet and everyone reacts differently. You care though, that's the main thing. I found that after the scales fell from my eyes I was much more able to spot a toxic person, especially where I work. I've been letting the bad people slide from my life and fostering better relations with more genuine people, this has helped me loads. I now even have a preferred check out lady at the local shop and I'll queue for her till even if the others are shorter. I find her very genuine and positive whereas some of the others can roll their eyes or moan about one thing or another. Sounds daft but I realised that I can't do anything about what happened in my past but I can do something about what type of people I surround myself with now. If you can, maybe help to surround your husband, and you and your children with good natured people.

Mittens it makes sense to me that you might feel glad, feel guilty about being glad and be grieving at the same time. (And your emotional literacy is really admirable, especially for someone who's come through such a cocktail of childhood abuse.) Being glad makes total sense, he wasn't a good person to you let alone a good parent. But parents are so big a part of our psychological landscape that you will also have grieved - perhaps more for the father you might have wished to have? And guilt comes with the territory. As children when we are treated abominably by our parents we take on this epic guilt as a survival mechanism, as it's easier to function believing you are to blame for your abuse (and therefore have control over it) than to admit to yourself that you're being "looked after" by scary people who at the very least don't care about you.

How's things with your mother now, if you don't mind me asking?

Downstairs I would second all of Nora's advice. And I'd add that IDK how it will be for your husband but I'm glad that my DH is on good terms with his mum and one of his brothers - I'm glad that between the two of us we have some family that aren't mental! I don't look and think "I missed out on that" though, I find it very hard to imagine being the kid in a loving mother-child relationship.

Nora I've been doing that with people too, letting the awful ones just quietly disappear from my life. I might start looking out for the nice checkout lady too! There's one lady in the local supermarket who's always nice to the kids and on the sly gives people extra stickers for the loyalty programmes. Why don't I just always go to her?

Thanks again nora and too that post really struck a bell. Dh used to always blame himself for his abuse, him having a bit of a temper as a teenager for example as reasons why his Mum and Dad drunk, it’s funny seeing him slowing clicking into how things really are and stopping blaming himself on things? I think he has took on guilt for years and felt like he was the reason for his own crappy childhood. Today, we took our boys to a pub garden for lunch, it was a really nice day for October and we hadn’t spoke about them at all today when I noticed him watching and laughing at the kids sodding about, he turned to me and said, “I don’t even need my mum, it’s sad she thinks I don’t and will miss out on this isn’t it?” I thought that was sad in itself, he is expecting her to drop it but she likes to keep up her appearances as good Nan and I imagine she will try and gain contact with our boys but dh has firmly said no to this, she won’t have any photos to play up to loving Nan on Facebook which I know will drive her mad, I imagine her fb will be full of passive aggressive meme likes for the next few weeks. Dh has deleted her as have I.

@toomuchtooold, thank you for the kind words. My father actually passed away nearly 20 years ago now. The memories came back because my DSis and I have young children and that led to distressing flashbacks, and other PTSD symptoms. I’m on antidepressants and have had alcohol problems. It’s been horrible actually, but we’re both coming through it.

My DM (now 78) copes by being very busy with lots of projects. She’s looked out for my DB, who has serious MH problems. I’m virtually NC with him due to his involvement in our abuse, which the police are investigating. She’s a mess really. I can’t talk to her about the past without her breaking down. She blames herself, of course, and can’t understand how she could have got it so wrong about everything. Trouble is, she looks to me for emotional support, which I’m not really in a position to give her. My DSis has moved right away with her family, it was a good decision for them.

It’s a mess. I do feel angry that my father isn’t around to face our anger, this has led to my DM having a rougher ride than she would have had otherwise, I think.

I've mentioned previously that my mum drove my DCs after having one drink on a few occasions. She takes strong painkillers so this has worried me. Tonight months since I last know that she did it I ended up telling over the phone that I no longer wanted her to drive them.

She shouted and said it had only been once despite me explaining multiple times it was several times (She means she only drank once more after I spoke to her about it for the second time if that makes sense? Spoke once, she did it a couple of times, spoke again and she did it once more that I know which was almost a year ago). Tried to explain that wasn't the point that she could be telling the truth but the point was I couldn't know.

She then went cold and said she didn't even know me anymore and that she had some issues to raise about me actually. I said "ok" and waited and she just started yelling about how ridiculous I was being, of course I could trust her and now I'm saying she can't see her grandchildren (I'm not saying that) and then put the phone down on me.

Feel so shaky and want to bawl but got to bath the kids so can't. Was going to do it face to face but glad I didn't now.

Urgh feel awful and totally unsure if I am being ridiculous I guess if she hasn't had a drink since last December it would seem crazy to her?

Lenl sorry you are feeling so bad about this.

EVEN if your M is telling the truth (and from what you say it sounds quite likely that she’s not) is it acceptable behaviour to shout at you over the phone? Would you do that to someone? Have a good cry (once the kids are in bed!), let it all out and then think to yourself - how am I feeling right now? Should my M be making me feel like this?

It is OK to set boundaries, it really is. She is not used to you setting them, and she’s kicking back. It’s what they do. Don’t be surprised if she tries another tack (probably the martyr one) when this doesn’t work.

Your children need to come first, and you’re doing a great job of doing that. She shouldn’t have been drinking AT ALL when driving them - trying to make you think it’s OK because it only happened x number of times is just muddying the waters, because the correct number of times would have been zero times.

Leni I’ve only just joined the thread so don’t know your whole story but I would be absolutely livid if that was my Mum so I don’t feel your reaction was uncalled for. I hope you are feeling better now.

@Lenl, you’re definitely not unreasonable. Your rules where your DCs are concerned. If you don’t want your mum driving driving them after one glass of wine then she needs to respect that.

Also, one large glass of wine does put you over the limit for driving, depending on the strength. And if your mum is taking strong painkillers, they do specify not to combine them with alcohol anyway, so she shouldn’t be drinking anyway, and certainly not driving if she has combined the two.

Regardless, she’s not used to you standing up to her, that’s why she shouted at you down the phone. Definitely stick to your guns, well done!

Thanks for the replies, really appreciate as am floundering a bit this morning and thinking I might be being unreasonable. There's every chance she hasn't had a drink since December last year but I kept trying to remind myself that the point is she did it despite knowing how I felt. Hard though. I can see how for her it's out of the blue though I think she perceives it as a personal attack and I was really careful not to make it that way.

I haven't heard from her since she put the phone down last night. I thought I'd get either wheedling/'apologetic' messages or angry ones but total radio silence. Puts me on edge.

Lenl

As Spare wrote:-

"It is OK to set boundaries, it really is. She is not used to you setting them, and she’s kicking back. It’s what they do. Don’t be surprised if she tries another tack (probably the martyr one) when this doesn’t work".

Now she seems to be trying the silent treatment; such is never ever about silence but a way of trying to regain some power and control over you. Silent treatment is really another form of emotional abuse. I would not further subject either myself or your children to such a person in any way shape or form.

And this too from Spare:-

Your children need to come first, and you’re doing a great job of doing that. She shouldn’t have been drinking AT ALL when driving them - trying to make you think it’s OK because it only happened x number of times is just muddying the waters, because the correct number of times would have been zero times.

Your mother was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not fundamentally altered since then. Such disordered people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

Would you have tolerated this from a friend, no. Your mother I argue is no different.

Anything said, no matter how nicely worded or put, against their own warped "norm" Lenl is regarded by them as a personal attack.

I’m in slightly different position because my dm went nc with me!
We had massive falling out about 12 months ago when she decided to get a plane home on a family holiday. She had been really arsey the whole time we were away, making snide comments and being unpleasant. I pulled her up on it which is the first time ever I reacted differently.

We then met for coffee twice and she tried to make out that I had been aggressive and it was all my fault and she was scared ( it soooo wasn’t like that I just wouldn’t back down from my position)

I sent her flowers on her bday, offered to meet her for coffee, my ds phoned and left msg on her answer machine and we have heard absolutely nothing from her.
She was pretty shit as a mother when I was growing up, controlling, nasty, out me down, threw me out at 17.
Funny thing is I had counselling a few years ago after my marriage failed and I kept blaming my dad for my issues and the counsellor kept taking it back to mother. I guess she saw something that I didn’t fully realise.

Anyway the point is I’m really fucking angry with her, I have all this built up anger and frustration and I don’t know what to do with it. I’m stuck and don’t feel I can move on.

This is one particular example that I look back at and cannot get my head around and probably sounds pathetic. I am dark skinned and quite hairy and desperately wanted to shave my legs as a 12/13 year old who was being teased. She told me I wasn’t allowed and forbid it.

Why? Why would you do that to your daughter. I see it now as a form of control but why?? What difference did it make to her - absolutely none but to me it was difference to being teased or not.

Hi all. Thank you to the stately homes people who posted to my thread last week titled 'therapist wants me to see my mum but I don't want to'. It was really helpful.

My mum sent ds a card today which said 'darling ds, here is some pocket money for you to enjoy spending' with a million kisses inside.

This after I blocked her on my phone and said I needed some time away,

It fucks me off that she is all gooey over ds and feels entitled to see him when at times she has been so shit to me and left me in a right mess. And then part of me thinks how I feel so bad because she obviously misses him and loves him.

But he doesn't have to cope with the legacy of 30 years of crap does she?

Urgh.

I'm not the biggest fan of Tony robbins but I've been taking some of his advice lately- trying to think forwards to the future rather than back, empowering affirmations etc. Thinking about what I want for the rest of my life and focusing on that. It's hard tho.

I am dark skinned and quite hairy and desperately wanted to shave my legs as a 12/13 year old who was being teased. She told me I wasn’t allowed and forbid it.

She didn't by any chance say it was forbidden because the hair would grow in thicker and you'd regret it when you were older? Because if she did then they definitely have a playbook that they all share. My mother wouldn't let me shave my legs at that age either. She also made out that (she believed) the reason I had dark hair on my upper lip was not to do with, you know, being 12 and very dark haired - no, she said that I was darkening it with some kind of magic unremovable dirt whenever I rubbed my nose. She used to slap my hand every time I touched my face. I should have slapped her. The never ending weirdness and variety of things they could make difficult never ceases to amaze me.

Anyway Racmactac hello and welcome, and yeah, I can imagine why you are still angry. I don't know if this sounds familiar - I went NC with my mum but it was like, same thing, she was over here visiting us and she just did one thing too many and I thought "fuck this". And I said goodbye to her and put her on the plane and then that was it, I never got in contact again until about 6 months later she's trying to get a flying monkey to find out my new address and I sent her a NC letter and that was it. She never contacted me directly. And I'm kind of OK with that because she is a total nutter, and I'm mostly glad that the kids don't have contact with her, but I do sometimes wish I'd had the chance to tell her what I think of her.

Toomuchtoold

Yes that was her reason and also that I’d cut myself.
Your comments about you were doing to it to yourself struck a cord actually. used to touch my face a lot (probably still do) and she would say that it was my fault I was spotty because I kept touching my face.

I told her once I’d fallen out with a friend and she asked me if that was because I was doing stuff with boys I was 13 and nothing to do with bloody boys.

My house is up for sale and if it ever sells I will not be telling her my new address

Chocolate have you heard of gaslighting? It's where they do or say stuff to make you doubt your version of reality. I always think that the super-sweet behaviour towards grandkids is just a way of gaslighting us - it's like, you're supposed to look at this "perfect" grandparent/grandkid relationship and wonder what was wrong with you that they didn't treat you like that.

Thank you Attila

I am not doing well..I cancelled my appointment for today (did so last week)...not really sure what to do now.

Sunflower was it NHS or private? I don't know how it works on the NHS, do you have anyone coordinating your care? It seems really wrong that you just get assigned someone and then it doesn't matter whether you gel with them or not... it's really important to therapy that you have a rapport with the therapist.

Hello all, I hope you don't mind me pouring my heart out to you (its going to be a long one). I'm a very depressed person and just need someone to talk (or type) to. I feel like my life is down in the pits and I don't see light a the end of the tunnel.

I've been bought up by a very toxic and narc mother who made most of me and my siblings life hell. We grew up just learning to switch off our emotions (even though it was hard) and just accepting her for who she is. Afterall she bought us into this world so she owns us right? But here are the list of things she did to me when I was little:

When I was 3 she would let our uncle to beat us because she said we were naughty and we deserve it. And I always remember I was lying on the floor crying for her to help but she carried on doing her washing up and pretend not to hear me while I was being dragged across the floor by my uncle.

Around age 3 have memories of being in the hospital for a couple of nights and she told me all she did was hit me with a little stick and suddenly I was unable to walk! She said the Drs said its my throat that cause pain down my legs and cause them to paralyze and she was so scared that it was all her fault. I didn't think much of it until recently. I looked online to find out if there was such illness and theres none. I'm tempted to find out in my medical record as I know theres more to it.

She would forbid me to wear any princess dresses because she said they were slutty and in appropriate. She called me a slag, dumb. useless. There was once when I had a red lollipop and it caused stains around my mouth and she slapped me and accused me of being a slag for putting on lipstick. I cried and showed her my tongue it was lollipop and she was still adamant I had lipstick.....no apologies.

She gets into fights with my dad over jealous rage and grab knife and threaten to kill my dad. If any of us helped him she would grab a rope and threaten to kill herself and I would the one to chase her and cry for her to stop. This would go on till mornings and we'd go school without much sleep.

She would run around naked when she was drunk WITHOUT ANY SHAME. We saw her naked body when we were only young. She would sick everywhere and we have to clear up her mess.

She killed my stray kitten when I was 6 because she said they were badluck. She threw both of them across the garden and I screamed and begged for her to just give them away but she didn't listen. I was lying on the floor completely traumatized. Blaming myself for what happened. Those kitten could've have been alive if I had gave them away.

When I was 8 I had frost bites on my feet and instead of taking me to the Drs she would put my feet into freshly boiled water with salt because she said it would kill the frost bites I listened to her because she was my mother but I screamed and cried everytime she did it. Now my feet is constantly cracking and prone to infections.

I lost control when I was 18. I felt I was getting picked on by my family constantly I went crazy and broke my wooden chopstick and stabbed both my hands with it. I honestly couldn't control it. I was so angry I wanted self harm as a way to get sympathy from them but my brother put a knife infront of me and said 'if you're so brave why not kill yourself and do it the proper way?' My mum kept calling me dumb. I was so upset but I couldn't bring myself to end my life.

At the age of 22 she got into a big fight with my dad and the police got involved. The police asked if I can drive my mum to our other property just to separate them both from fighting (3am in the morning 1 hour away). I agreed to do that but as I was driving she decides to open the car door (while I was driving) and ran across the road screaming. The police happen to drive towards that direction and arrested her. I cried and the police told me I'm a good daughter and I've done what I can but he had no choice. I manage to pick her up the following morning from the prison cell and she was crying to me saying it was all my dads fault. My sibling all thought it was funny but I honestly didn't see the funny side. I was so upset and traumatized.

Those were the worst of times but then things did get abit better when I graduated and got myself a job. I put all the past behind me and wanted to do what I can to make my parents proud and happy so I spent money on them and just do what they say so to please them. Even though there were often fights we learned to accept my mother has a personality disorder and we just have to keep it to ourselves and accept it. But her luck was running out.

So I'm a 37 year old now with a family of my own, a loving husband and three adorable children. When I was pregnant with my first born I had an argument with my mum and she told me 'watch what might happen to whats in your stomach!' I was in disbelief. As much I can switch of my emotions with her abuse I couldn't forget what she said. It was so clear. So throughout my pregnancy I was worried my child may be born with a disability. He is 9 now had mild learning difficulties and wears hearing aids due to mild hearing loss. As much I don't believe in curses what she said to me should have been enough for me to cut all ties with her but I chose to forgive. But then my sis in law comes in the scene. She verbally abused my son when he was only 6 because she said my son was nasty to her son. She chased him to the living room and while he was lying there crying his heart out she pointed at him and screamed 'don't you ever touch my sons toys again!' I immediately told her to stop yelling at him and reminded her he's only a 6 year old and theres no need to be so abusive. then my brother shouted 'shut the F up!' I just grabbed onto my son and wanted to leave. Then my dad started saying it was all my fault. My mother said she had the right to smack my son if she wants. I said 'NO HURTS MY CHILD!' She was shocked that I raised my voice but then she told me a story that there was once a similar situation that happened between a sis in law and aunty then one of them put a curse on the other one causing her to commit suicide so she said I should be careful. FFS! I was fuming! What did she mean? She's meant to say if I don't do as I'm told I will get cursed and become suicidal! I stayed well away from her for 3 months but then the guilt was killing me again so I went back. Then I discovered she called my mother inlaw and told her to beware of me. She said I was a trouble maker who shouted at my sis in law for no reason and that I've always been a difficult child. My MIL stood her ground and stood up for me. Then I my parents said to her 'DON'T TELL ANYONE about their conversation'. My MIL was speechless but she had to tell me the truth. I was really really broken. And now my MIL's reputation is tarnished as they told the whole community how she made lies up to make me hate them. I feel so bad for my MIL.

Me being me I forgave again. And just kept keeping my fingers crossed things would get better, but then my marriage was failing. My hubby was frustrated that I was too forgiving and we argued alot. I kept getting more abuse from my parents for stupid things then I finally gave in. I was feeling suicidal. I saw no light at the end of the tunnel and took an overdose without thinking. I'm so angry with myself. I thought why am I punishing myself? Its not even my fault and now my kids have to witness this? I was starting to believe her curses are coming true. Ambulance came and then Drs and therapist got involve. I was on anit-depressants and saw therapist every week. Drs suggest I cut all ties with them and told me to stop feeling like I have to be a good daughter when they've been the worst parents to me. But then the guilt is killing me. I still can't be happy. I needed my parents to be part of my life or all my other family members swill also cut ties with me......so I forgave them. The final straw came when my husband decided to take me kids and his mom away on a cruise for christmas and that made my parents so jealous that we never asked them to join us. My hubby said we only go with people we get in with and my mother went mental! I told her to stop! I told her to stop being jealous and stop calling my MIL to talk bad about me. Enough was enough! The rage in her eyes, she turned into a mad dog and grabbed the phone and threaten to call my MIL and ask her what she told me. I said the truth! Then it look like she wanted to hit my hubby with the phone and my kids was screaming and crying and tripping over the shoes scrambling to find their way out. That was the last day I was in my parents house. I cried and shouted 'this will be the last time I'm here!!!' and left.

It was still hard for me as I was still the people pleaser. Then I became depressed again and wanted to see them again. My Dr told me to read up on NPD and I did. Now I finally know there was a name for my moms toxic behavior and the only way especially on severe consequences is to cut ties. Things did get better. My hubby took me and kids on loads of holidays creating memories wherever we go and it made me happy. Its been 3 years of no contact then comes my sisters wedding (whom I kept low contact because of my parents) and she really wanted me there. I felt so pressured by my siblings and cousins that I should attend and that whatever happened was between me and my parents but I decided not to go as I didn't want to ruin my sisters wedding. My husband and children wouldn't go so why should I go on my own? I'll get crucified by them all and not be allowed to stand up for myself and if I did I'll be the trouble maker. I'll probably lose control of myself and get the blame for everything like I always did.

Its only been three days since the wedding and I'm getting dreams about my family wanting me back. I've been unwell for nearly a week now and living of painkillers. I'm always feeling unwell. I'm going to visit the mental group talk tomorrow and hopefully help me feel better. And my new counsellor has called to arrange an appointment for next week. I'm so desperate to feel better, and as I'm writing this and re-reading whats happened in my life I realized its time to let go. I've had to read what I'm writing now 5 times and its making me feel I'm doing the right thing to let go. I never thought it just takes pouring my heart out would make me feel so much better. I hope this is the first step to happiness. Sorry if its a long story but this really helps me feeling better already.

@mummyjen2, thank you for sharing that, I hope it helped to write it all down, it certainly helped me. You’re right, your mother is toxic and your dad has enabled it by staying with her and allowing her to treat you like that. You really are not to blame for any of it, and I hope that your therapy helps you to really come to accept this.

You were right not to go to your sister’s wedding. It’s time to stop being the people pleaser and look after yourself. You have a really lovely family, your MIL is amazing! You now have the chance to have a wonderful future with your DH and your DCs, you mustn’t let anything get in the way of that.

I know how this can come about, as I’m a people pleaser where my family is concerned as well; I’m speaking to myself as well as you, OP.

Hugs to you.

Sorry, I meant hugs to mummy in that post, not the OP. Though we could all do with a hug, I think.

Hey, I'll take hugs

@mummyjen2 I'm really glad to hear that you're getting a bit of clarity and calm now, following your sister's wedding. I think you absolutely did the right thing in not going. I can imagine that your mother would have been very angry and that she might have made a scene, in which case your sister may blame you, because your family dynamic is that everyone bends over backwards to keep your mother calm. But she is responsible for her own behaviour.

It's a galling irony of abuse that the worse it was, the harder it is for you to see through the abuser-imposed guilt and shame to understand that you're not to blame, and that they bloody well are to blame. You've given them several lifetimes of forgiveness, your mum, your uncle, and your dad who failed to stop it.
It sounds like some of your extended family are acting as flying monkeys - deliberately or unwittingly trying to draw you back in for another dose of abuse. People do this for various reasons - they may be genuine although misguided, they may have a vested interest in believing that families should stick together whatever happens (how are their relationships with their parents?) or simply because the abuser is giving them a lot of grief and they want you to draw fire. Whatever the reason, you don't have to listen to them.

Hello everyone, I hope everyone is doing ok this evening. I have recently named changed but I have posted on the last couple of threads. I have the proper rage today, it's stupid as nothing has really happened. My DB made a comment which has made me feel really unhappy about just allowing my m to move on as if she hadn't treated me badly. I have written a letter, am I mad to think about sending it? It is just fuel isn't it? I can't leave it unchallenged, something needs to change for me.

This is it, very vague but trying to not put all the details. What do you think?

Dear mum
Since I saw you last and while you have been away I have been thinking, in fact I have been thinking lots over the last few months. I am sorry that I haven't really spoken to you directly but I am really not happy to move on like nothing has happened.

It still makes me so sad that you would choose make me out as a liar and trouble maker when you know that is not true. I know you will say that you haven't said anything but I know you have joined in conversations with both Xx and xx at your house because of things Xx and you have said since.

It doesn't matter that you may have not started the discussion but that you have let it be said unchallenged because let's be honest it suits you and means you don't have to deal with this mess you have created.

I think you will say that Xx said I had been talking about my childhood recently and you took this a me saying something had happened to me. I never said that anything specific had happened to me but I did say I had been thinking about my childhood after you had failed to speak up for me as this is what you always do.

I think been thinking about my childhood but to be honest this was more centred on you, I understand that you were very upset/Ill when my dad left but when I asked you about this you didn't really think about any impact on me just you. I think maybe seeing you so upset did and I think as a parent I would have tried to protect my child more.

I think you made me the adult when I was still the child and that is wrong. I think you left me at home when I was far too young to be left and left in charge of another.

All of this is in the past and I can understand how these things happened, but the more recent stuff I am still upset about.

I get that it is hard for you and it is easier if we all move on and forget about, but to be honest I don't want to and nor should I. Did you not think as my mum you should have stood up for me?

You have created all of this and I don't want to continue being the person who is held accountable for this, no of it is mine to be accountable for.

So Mum I offer you the chance to fix this. The choice is with you, but if you cannot explain to xx and xx the truth I am not sure I can forgive and move on.

Thanks for reading and for everyone sharing it really does help