Feel traumatised from stepkids hell, now relationship under threat

[SaffronStrands]

Hello, this is my first post after being a Mumsnet reader for a long while. This covers step children and my relationship so I hope it's ok that I post this here. I am so upset and feeling sick to my stomach every day and would like to hear others' thoughts and any advice.

I started to write this and it ended up a long message of this happened, then that, and this which would drive anyone reading it nuts. So I'll try to summarise as much as I can and leave out all the incidents and conflicts of which there have been several and are increasing in frequency.

My DP has three teenage/young men DSs, eldest at uni. DP divorced many years ago, I moved in a few months ago. DP and his ex have the DSs 50% of the time each.

From the outset DP and I wished to give them a family environment which they said they didn't have at their mum's (who remarried some years ago but the DSs say they hardly speak to her husband and argue with their mum). When I moved in, things went well, the DSs seemed welcoming and I was sensitive to moving into their space, and their family and they seemed to like me. They tended to leave a mess everywhere but when DP asked them to tidy up, they did. This stopped after a month. The only concern I had (other than their lack of respect for house rules and chores or basic tidying up after themselves) was the very dominating, almost trampling attitude of the very bright middle DS (17) who likes to impose his opinion and "how I think things should be done" on everyone.

My DP has wanted to talk to this middle DS for over a year about general life stuff, plans etc, but every time he storms out the room and avoids the conversation. This DS didn't apply to university as everyone thought it was going to do and announced he was taking a gap year, with no plans of anything to do on that gap year. My DP has now told me he hasn't been able to talk to him about anything properly for 3 years. It was a joke that the only way to get him to talk would be to lock him in a room, but my DP let it go whilst he took his A-levels, and thought when we go on holiday (last week) once the exams are over, he'd have a good chat, father to son at last about this year, life etc.

The holiday was a nightmare. All DSs didn't want to do or see anything (except one, biking), they said they wanted to just hang around the lovely rented house, and middle DS announced he didn't want to go to anything we suggested and we should leave him alone. I was sad our hopes for outings together etc. wouldn't happen, but DP seemed OK, he said every year they just like to do their own thing. So most days DP and I went out. On the couple of occasions we got them to join us to take the DS who wanted to go biking, they moaned about the duration of the journey and on being taken out at all. They left chaos in every room they touched and I seemed to spend all my time clearing up after 3 DSs who hardly spoke a word to me.

For the first few days I couldn't believe the lack of gratitude and general rudeness. DP's attempts to get them to tidy up collapsed when the middle DS announced he disagreed with the routine and refused to cooperate. It was as if they were having their holiday, we were trying to have some remnant for us, and DP and I were their slaves. Any time I asked them to tidy something up they either pretended to not hear me, ignore me or huff and puff.

The middle DS's behaviour became more and more argumentative, and this followed incidents before the holiday, at ours and at his mum's. He storms out of ours to spend time at hers, only to storm out of hers and come to ours. Small but building incidents happened over the holiday, each time with the middle DS being rude, refusing to cooperate, constantly challenging and debating (some of which is fine of course to a limit but he cannot bear to have his position questioned as part of the debate and he starts shouting and storms out!). Sometimes I just crave for him to just do something asked of him and to shut up. There was one blow up which DP believed was created as an excuse to yet again avoid any type of discussion, this middle DS told me he was putting DP on trial for the rest of the day and if DP told him off once more he was going to disappear and leave the holiday. I knew this would break DP's heart and told him, as I told the middle DS I would. Later middle DS found me when I was alone and let rip at me, DP ordered him to get out of the kitchen, and I then heard this middle DS badmouth DP and me, expletives etc to the elder DS. I realised then that he was now going to make me the cause of the issues, "DP has changed since she's been around" type of talk. DP tried to reassure me that this has been brewing for 3 years at least and that this middle DS's behaviour has been worsening long before I came along.

Next morning, middle DS was gone. He came back to our home and then to his mum's. After the initial shock, we took the other DSs out and there was actually relief in the air. The other DSs went back to their bit-more-friendly selves. Other family members came over and we had a few days of enjoyment, nobody was trampled on and there were no explosions. DP's mood lifted, we were close and loving, I wanted to cry with relief.

On the last morning as we tidied the house, the two remaining DSs didn't lift a finger to help. This time I couldn't bear to ask yet again and for it to cause an argument. The eldest stood in the kitchen on his phone as I and others hurried round him. They did absolutely nothing whilst their younger cousins helped out and were wonderful. At one point the youngest DS threw a plastic bottle over his shoulder at me as I struggled with a broken bin bag on the floor, heard it bounce on the floor and walked off. I was enraged but knew another conflict with the DSs would bring my DP to his knees. I took the bins out and cried and cried behind the shed. When I came out DP saw something was wrong, followed me, and I told him how the DSs had not done anything to help. I was aghast: instead of telling them off or asking them to help out, he was irritated by my upset. The drive back was excrutiating.

Which is where I am now. DP hardly speaks to me. The youngest DS has been with us for a few days and has probably spoken 10 words in that time. The eldest has been a bit friendlier but has been at his mum's. I have not seen the middle DS, whose return I now dread. DP's attitude towards the middle DS's behaviour to him, me, us and generally has turned from outrage and recognition of what he's been up to, and wanting him to face the consequences, to total worry that he will lose him forever if he comes down hard on him and he'll just have a chat with him instead.

I see a toxic middle DS whose disgusting behaviour seems to get no punishment or consequences. I see two other DSs heavily influenced by this middle DS, which is a shame as there are good hearts and sensitivity in there but when middle DS had his say to them they turn deeply unpleasant.

And now I have a DP who is devastated that the family atmosphere he hoped to create for his boys has not come off. In the past few days I have stood speechless as these 3 misbehaving boys have been greeted with smiles and enthusiasm and friendly texts from DP, whereas I have been treated with disdain.

I don't know what to do about the stepkids. I don't know what to do about the relationship with my DP which has been wonderful, and which I hope will continue to be but fear will now end. I have tried to talk to DP about it all, but he sighs, tells me it is recoverable, that he is going to talk to the middle DS whose only concern now seems to be not losing his middle DS to the wilderness. And if that means never speaking out about his appalling behaviour, that seems to be what DP is willing to do. I don't know what to do about my own feelings of sheer dread of the middle DS who I have to confess I can't even bring myself to say I like any more, or the two other DSs who I really thought I got on so well with, but who barely speak a word to me. The atmosphere in the house is killing me, I am exhausted and so fearful of this mess.

I have four teens and my house always seems to be full of them. In terms of holidays, there is no one size fits all. Some enjoy holidaying with their parents, and many would much rather stay at home.

Successful holidays for us have been where we all sit down with a pile of brochures and each find 4-5 that we like before looking for commonality.

If you don't want to run the risk of them asking to go to Mauritius, we've found that holidays where they can dip in or out work best.

DC have their own rooms in hotels or when cruising so that they can be as messy or unsociable as they like, or book villas where they can walk into town to do their own thing or sit by the pool or sleep all day in their rooms.

Once they're 18 we offered cash alternatives if they wanted to holiday with friends instead.

If you want to stick it out at home and not lift a finger for them - good luck to you.

But don't go on holiday with them. Their dad can deal with their shit, you and he can have relaxing holidays alone.

If you insist, put them in a separate annex, you and he go out together for the day, and you meet up once a day for a meal max. Teens really do not want to spend time on holiday with their parents.

All teenagers are different. My teenagers happily come on holiday, are not rude and will do things if we ask or nag. They are terrible at tidying up after themselves and that's where the nagging comes in.
I'd like to think it's because we set clear expectations as parents, but respect them and give them choices and, perhaps crucially, model a respectful relationship to them.
If your dp and his ex had differences in parenting style, modelled disrespectful relationships, created a tense atmosphere etc etc it stands to reason that the dc have suffered as a result.
So far as the practicalities of your situation are concerned, I would leave all parenting to dp. Don't get involved in telling the dc what and what not to do. Treat them as equals to you. Maybe they will then start treating you as an equal rather than a skivvy.

All this stuff about 'what teens are like' while interesting and relevant for OP, the main issue is spineless lack of parenting from the DP. This fear-induced parenting fail from men who are non resident parents seems so common. I keep reading about it on here. So many kids being failed. I would find it disrespectful and wholly unattractive in a man and suggest OP extricates herself from the whole debacle and then runs from the hills....

Being honest , I have a 19 year old son who moved out to a house share at 18 and has been working full time in IT since he was 16, now has a very good job after doing apprenticeship . I can honestly say from 14 onwards he was very hard to live with and it certainly didn't create a 'nice family atmosphere' , and having net lots of his friends I'm pretty sure their families probably felt the same. I would say it's hard if you haven't experienced it yourself and particularly if they are not yours. Don't bother with the taking them on holiday etc , it's not worth it!! And I would say don't skivvy after them at home, if your partner doesn't like it, then let him do it if he is happy to do so, they soon get the hint that clothes don't wash themselves etc

They are old enough to know about respect. You are unhappy, they are not going to miraculously change. I'd be leaving if I was you a d continue the relationship from the safety and comfort of your own space. I say safety because you risk real problems with your mental health if you stay in the situation you are in.

I think it is your dps responsibility to clean and tidy up, not yours. If he doesn't clean after the DC's then neither should you. From my perspective, I often ask /remind/tell my DC's to do X and y. Sometimes they do it mostly they don't . They are my DC's so it's my call what happens then. They are not rude and disrespectful.
As for the holidays I think you should let your dp go alone with them and the 2 of you go away together.
If you do insist on all going together I would go to a hotel where you don't have to cook or clean. Book separate rooms too.

I worked with disaffected teens for many years and what you find is that you need to learn and relearn behaviour management techniques regularly.

If your middle dss was in my class behaving like this, I would be looking to get him onside by building up rapport and trust. This would be things like rewarding and positive language for every slight achievement, dropping into conversation "hey thanks for doing x earlier, I really appreciate it". Once he gets that positive reinforcement he will look for it more and the others around him will copy.

Realistically, only once you have that can any discipline be effective in moulding behaviour to be that of a nice human being who is ready to be a functional person in society.

He has avoided all questions about his life plans for years by running away and exploding. Classic avoidance strategy because he doesn't want to admit weakness that he doesn't know what to do/doesn't want to risk failure. Easier to appear to choose it than fail. Finding out what ideas he has and helping to enable that rather than expecting an answer is going to make that worse.

From what you've written about the family dynamic you will not change their behaviour by expectations and rules, especially when the dad is also doing that and failing. I honestly think actually this young man is quite troubled and having him feel secure enough to open up may well be the answer to a lot of the family dynamic. I guess it's whether you feel it's you place/want/need to do that or whether that's for the parents to do/ignore as to whether you walk away or stick it out.

Agree harsh as it sounds (going to get flamed for this) but his kids are not predominately your problem

You have been v v kind and welcoming but your DP has not kept his end of the blended "family" responsibility by encouraging them to respect you and so on

As others say perhaps it is just a difficult age and their behaviour typical but I do think it's not really your issue to deal with and you would be better off living seperatley and perhaps holidaying only when your DP can do so without his kids

My 17 and 15 year old still come on holiday with us and they enjoy it.

Nothing unusual about that. We just know that if there's no WiFi, we'll have a lot of moaning.

Boys are usually a lot messier than girls.

The middle child sounds typical of a child needing love and positive 1:1 attention. Do you think the boy feels treasured or well thought of? I don't get the impression he is and his present behaviour is the fall out from all the negativity.

Secondly on leaving the holiday place, you and DH should have divided all the jobs between everyone. With DH taking the lead with the boys. You really should have tackled DH bat the first sign of difficulty rather then choosing to be a marter.

I'll try and address a few points and questions asked.

Robinia - your post reasonated throughout. DP's intention has always been for us to model a healthy relationship, and family dynamic (all very good intentions) which would lead by example. The dynamic is different at their other home (remember, 50/50), something expressed by all 3 SK. Yelling and tension is a style there, which I have no doubt leads the middle son especially to believe that's the way to deal with stuff.

As for holidays, DP will always want them to come with us, and I can't really do much about that, only say what I think or refuse to go. If they come, I will sadly let go of any expectations that they'd do anything with us - sadly, because I know so many of you think that's normal, but it isn't in my peers, our friends, and also my DP's wider family, so this is really an anomaly that is hard to get our heads round.

I must defend DP in many ways here - though I do disagree with how he's handling some aspects too. We have since spoken about that time I thought he was annoyed with me, and he admits more annoyed with the whole situation and his kids, whilst in the midst of chaotic packing up, I just happened to be in front of him, and he as apologised. To those who call him spineless, I can vouch he is not. The arguments arose precisely because he put his foot down about tidying up and divided up the responsibility, fed up with their behaviour. Toxic middle son undermined this, repeatedly argued back and refused to follow this routine, a few hours later said they were all going to clear up and would not do it the way we said, refused to accept that whenever they all say they will do it, nobody does it so this time responsibility will be divided among them, few hours later storms in an announces his way will be the way it happens, not ours etc. Constant battles to just get him to do anything, constant battles with him trying to dictate to all adults around him how it's going to be. Remember also, that the final blow up was because DP stood up for me and ordered the toxic son out when he had cornered me and let rip.

Cherrytart6: the middle child has so much love and attention, you wouldn't believe it. He has been so highly thought of for years by many, apparently he was literally a shining star, and in the past few years his cockiness and arrogance and sense of entitlement has derailed him. Nobody has been able to talk to him about it, he just runs.

1981trouble - the middle son has received years and years of positive reinforcement, and since I have been here did from me too. That's why his outbursts and disgusting behaviour is such a shock. It's as if none of that, or the trust built up, or all the things we have done, count for anything. You are correct in saying his storming out is classic avoidance strategy, and I agree it's down to fear. DP hasn't tried to get a clear answer though or pin him down, just hear his ideas, just talk at the most general of levels. He gets angry and storms out.

Moving out is definitely a step back in my eyes, and I'll review whether I need to do that once I see how this new way of doing things works out. Like I said, I will not tidy up for them any more and I am not. I will not parent them, let them deal with it, argue among themselves, and if DP is around it's up to him. I am not going to give and give to them or be so forward in my interest and care for them, they need to step up and come to me. There's been a glimmer of hope from my disengagement - one SK asked me how my week was a couple of days ago, I nearly fell off my chair. That's a first!

You're calling the middle child toxic.

That will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed: he is already, it's just an adjective that accurately describes him and his disgraceful behaviour. There's nothing prophetic about it, self-fulfilling or otherwise, he's already there.

it will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

For his good as well as your own you should leave asap.

You really must stop trying to parent these young men. It is too late for that. You need to take a big step back and leave the parenting to their parents.

What Sonja said too.

They're big teens. You can not invent up a happy family situation. They're too old and too big.

This whole situation is bizarre.

OP are you really saying your DP would refuse to go on holiday with you without his teen/young adult DC? That is very unusual. I don't think I know anyone with DC that age who doesn't have holidays without them sometimes.

You have set yourself so much against the middle child it seems you have no way back? If that is the case you should probably distance yourself as it is unlikely DP will choose you over him.

I am surprised you got sucked into this unhealthy dynamic in the first place - wouldn't you be happier out of it? It almost feels like a competition.

I would have left him to it ages ago...................

I will not parent them, let them deal with it, argue among themselves, and if DP is around it's up to him.

Why were you ever parenting them and why wasn't it always up to your DP is he was around?

I know so many of you think that's normal, but it isn't in my peers, our friends, and also my DP's wider family, so this is really an anomaly that is hard to get our heads round

Unless they're all extremely geeky and parent-dependent, I highly doubt that. But either way you both need to grow up and accept that whatever other people do, this isn't working for your family. Maybe his friends and family were better at setting boundaries for their kids, maybe their kids are better behaved, and they all get on more happily.

Relationships with step parents are always difficult, but I have never seen in any family ever, children who treated their step parent the way you've been treated. Your DH needs to examine his own role in why this happy family scenario is not working and why you have been advised to take a step back.

happypoobum: ?? you've misunderstood, no, I haven't said that at all. We are having plenty of holidays without the SKs. I wrote that for the one family holiday that he'd like each year with his kids, I could refuse to go if there's any chance they behave the way they did this last time.

In my mind, there's no choosing between the middle son and me, I'd never think like that. What there is is my handling of him, and DP's handling of him. There was no unhealthy dynamic until the middle son's worsening behaviour completely flipped out to downright awful once his A levels were done and his pointless 'gap year' kicked in.

They're big teens. You can not invent up a happy family situation. They're too old and too big

Yep.

You say that moving out would be a step back, but why is a 'step back' bad? Your DP is obviously not in the right place just now to prioritise his relationship with you - I won't get into a debate as to whether that is right or wrong - so give him the space to prioritise the relationship with his kids until they fly the nest.

You can continue seeing him, there's nothing to stop that; he can stay at yours sometimes, you can stay at his. But get your own space, somewhere that runs to your rules and isn't violated by others not living up to your stnadards. Nothing says that you have to live together to be together. When you go on holiday, go as a couple, without the stepchildren, they are old enough (!) to look after themselves.

Please stop calling the middle child "toxic". Labelling him like this is hardly going to help your relationship, and doing so is diverting your attention from the fact that (to use a Mumsnet phrase) you don't have a stepchild problem, you have a DP problem. Children echo behaviour they see rather than what they are told, and if you are being left to basically chambermaid on your own rather than considering housework as a shared activity, here's your issue.

I've been on holiday recently with 4 teenage boys (15-16) and some friends. The boys did their own thing most of the time (swimming, cycling, etc), cleaned up the place they were living in themselves at the end and had dinner with the adults every night. They were altogether delightful, polite and respectful even though - gasp - two of the four (including mine) were from "broken" homes. Teenagers can, of course, be an utter pain in the bum but they really don't have to be. It's not about "telling them off" necessarily but about modelling decent, kind and thoughtful behaviour and having firm expectations of everyone in the household to contribute. It's up to your DP to step up to the plate.