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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feel traumatised from stepkids hell, now relationship under threat

197 replies

SaffronStrands · 03/08/2017 13:45

Hello, this is my first post after being a Mumsnet reader for a long while. This covers step children and my relationship so I hope it's ok that I post this here. I am so upset and feeling sick to my stomach every day and would like to hear others' thoughts and any advice.

I started to write this and it ended up a long message of this happened, then that, and this which would drive anyone reading it nuts. So I'll try to summarise as much as I can and leave out all the incidents and conflicts of which there have been several and are increasing in frequency.

My DP has three teenage/young men DSs, eldest at uni. DP divorced many years ago, I moved in a few months ago. DP and his ex have the DSs 50% of the time each.

From the outset DP and I wished to give them a family environment which they said they didn't have at their mum's (who remarried some years ago but the DSs say they hardly speak to her husband and argue with their mum). When I moved in, things went well, the DSs seemed welcoming and I was sensitive to moving into their space, and their family and they seemed to like me. They tended to leave a mess everywhere but when DP asked them to tidy up, they did. This stopped after a month. The only concern I had (other than their lack of respect for house rules and chores or basic tidying up after themselves) was the very dominating, almost trampling attitude of the very bright middle DS (17) who likes to impose his opinion and "how I think things should be done" on everyone.

My DP has wanted to talk to this middle DS for over a year about general life stuff, plans etc, but every time he storms out the room and avoids the conversation. This DS didn't apply to university as everyone thought it was going to do and announced he was taking a gap year, with no plans of anything to do on that gap year. My DP has now told me he hasn't been able to talk to him about anything properly for 3 years. It was a joke that the only way to get him to talk would be to lock him in a room, but my DP let it go whilst he took his A-levels, and thought when we go on holiday (last week) once the exams are over, he'd have a good chat, father to son at last about this year, life etc.

The holiday was a nightmare. All DSs didn't want to do or see anything (except one, biking), they said they wanted to just hang around the lovely rented house, and middle DS announced he didn't want to go to anything we suggested and we should leave him alone. I was sad our hopes for outings together etc. wouldn't happen, but DP seemed OK, he said every year they just like to do their own thing. So most days DP and I went out. On the couple of occasions we got them to join us to take the DS who wanted to go biking, they moaned about the duration of the journey and on being taken out at all. They left chaos in every room they touched and I seemed to spend all my time clearing up after 3 DSs who hardly spoke a word to me.

For the first few days I couldn't believe the lack of gratitude and general rudeness. DP's attempts to get them to tidy up collapsed when the middle DS announced he disagreed with the routine and refused to cooperate. It was as if they were having their holiday, we were trying to have some remnant for us, and DP and I were their slaves. Any time I asked them to tidy something up they either pretended to not hear me, ignore me or huff and puff.

The middle DS's behaviour became more and more argumentative, and this followed incidents before the holiday, at ours and at his mum's. He storms out of ours to spend time at hers, only to storm out of hers and come to ours. Small but building incidents happened over the holiday, each time with the middle DS being rude, refusing to cooperate, constantly challenging and debating (some of which is fine of course to a limit but he cannot bear to have his position questioned as part of the debate and he starts shouting and storms out!). Sometimes I just crave for him to just do something asked of him and to shut up. There was one blow up which DP believed was created as an excuse to yet again avoid any type of discussion, this middle DS told me he was putting DP on trial for the rest of the day and if DP told him off once more he was going to disappear and leave the holiday. I knew this would break DP's heart and told him, as I told the middle DS I would. Later middle DS found me when I was alone and let rip at me, DP ordered him to get out of the kitchen, and I then heard this middle DS badmouth DP and me, expletives etc to the elder DS. I realised then that he was now going to make me the cause of the issues, "DP has changed since she's been around" type of talk. DP tried to reassure me that this has been brewing for 3 years at least and that this middle DS's behaviour has been worsening long before I came along.

Next morning, middle DS was gone. He came back to our home and then to his mum's. After the initial shock, we took the other DSs out and there was actually relief in the air. The other DSs went back to their bit-more-friendly selves. Other family members came over and we had a few days of enjoyment, nobody was trampled on and there were no explosions. DP's mood lifted, we were close and loving, I wanted to cry with relief.

On the last morning as we tidied the house, the two remaining DSs didn't lift a finger to help. This time I couldn't bear to ask yet again and for it to cause an argument. The eldest stood in the kitchen on his phone as I and others hurried round him. They did absolutely nothing whilst their younger cousins helped out and were wonderful. At one point the youngest DS threw a plastic bottle over his shoulder at me as I struggled with a broken bin bag on the floor, heard it bounce on the floor and walked off. I was enraged but knew another conflict with the DSs would bring my DP to his knees. I took the bins out and cried and cried behind the shed. When I came out DP saw something was wrong, followed me, and I told him how the DSs had not done anything to help. I was aghast: instead of telling them off or asking them to help out, he was irritated by my upset. The drive back was excrutiating.

Which is where I am now. DP hardly speaks to me. The youngest DS has been with us for a few days and has probably spoken 10 words in that time. The eldest has been a bit friendlier but has been at his mum's. I have not seen the middle DS, whose return I now dread. DP's attitude towards the middle DS's behaviour to him, me, us and generally has turned from outrage and recognition of what he's been up to, and wanting him to face the consequences, to total worry that he will lose him forever if he comes down hard on him and he'll just have a chat with him instead.

I see a toxic middle DS whose disgusting behaviour seems to get no punishment or consequences. I see two other DSs heavily influenced by this middle DS, which is a shame as there are good hearts and sensitivity in there but when middle DS had his say to them they turn deeply unpleasant.

And now I have a DP who is devastated that the family atmosphere he hoped to create for his boys has not come off. In the past few days I have stood speechless as these 3 misbehaving boys have been greeted with smiles and enthusiasm and friendly texts from DP, whereas I have been treated with disdain.

I don't know what to do about the stepkids. I don't know what to do about the relationship with my DP which has been wonderful, and which I hope will continue to be but fear will now end. I have tried to talk to DP about it all, but he sighs, tells me it is recoverable, that he is going to talk to the middle DS whose only concern now seems to be not losing his middle DS to the wilderness. And if that means never speaking out about his appalling behaviour, that seems to be what DP is willing to do. I don't know what to do about my own feelings of sheer dread of the middle DS who I have to confess I can't even bring myself to say I like any more, or the two other DSs who I really thought I got on so well with, but who barely speak a word to me. The atmosphere in the house is killing me, I am exhausted and so fearful of this mess.

OP posts:
IdentifiesAsYoda · 04/08/2017 07:05

Whilst I disagree that living with teenagers is necessarily as bad as this, (it's not for me!) what you don't have with these teens is any history or any influence

Really agree with this from DonkeyOil:

"With the best will in the world - and I think you have done your best - the young men whose lives you have recently entered, are on the verge of striking out on their own. I can't see them being willing to invest much time or energy playing happy families with you and your dp, in spite of your best intentions"

IdentifiesAsYoda · 04/08/2017 07:06

.... and yes, they have not been "trained'. You are not going to be able to do that, and your DP is basically throwing his hands up and letting them treat you badly

sandgrown · 04/08/2017 07:23

Well said Donkeyoil!

springydaffs · 04/08/2017 07:30

So hang on, they don't get a family environment at their mum's?

Says who. I'd take with a huge pinch of salt what your partner has to say about his ex. Ditto what 3 teenage louts boys have to say about their mum.

paradoxicalInterruption · 04/08/2017 07:34

Move out. Do some stuff with friends, go on holiday with Dh on own. Maybe move back in when kids moved out, if they do.

How old are you? You sound quite young to be in this situation.

IrritatedUser1960 · 04/08/2017 07:34

I'm sorry to say that if this was me I'd be a live out partner. I couldn't cope with this crap. Your DP feels like piggy in the middle and doesn't want to upset his kids or you so nothing is going to change anytime soon.

RainyApril · 04/08/2017 07:35

They've played their parents off against each other for years. Did you really believe everything they said about their mum and stepfather?

As others have said, their upbringing has resulted in some teens who sound like pretty hard work whilst still being within the bounds of 'normal'. Look at the 'teenagers' board for some truly hair-raising stories. This, coupled with unrealistic 'happy family' expectations has resulted in misery for everyone.

I do also think you are seeing malicious intent where there is none. You say you were clearing rubbish and holding a bin bag when dss threw a plastic bottle at you. Was he aiming for the bin bag?

You are now at the point where you are driving them mad, your dp is frustrated that family life is worse not better as he had hoped, and you are at your wits end.

I too think you should move out and attempt to save the relationship from your own space. If you do it right, you could try moving in again in a few years when they have moved out and are becoming nice young men who will feel ashamed of the way they treated you.

mantlepiece · 05/08/2017 16:57

You say the parents divorced many years ago.

How many girlfriends have the boys seen come and go?

I am another that thinks you cannot take on a stepmother role to these young men. Let your DP do his 50% parenting he is a grownup!

SaffronStrands · 11/08/2017 15:17

Thank you everyone for your messages and advice. The SKs have been away, two on holiday with their mum and the toxic one stayed behind at her house as he doesn't like to go on holiday with her. Things here have been blissful in comparison and DP and I had a good talk.

I wanted to flee, I really did, but I am staying here and going to see what happens, both with the toxic SK and the family unit/our relationship when he's back, if he doesn't stay away. He hasn't yet apologised to me or my DP and I am going to find it untenable to welcome him back after what he has done without any sort of apology. I have also decided to disengage somewhat from all the SKs. I am here for them, I will be friendly etc, but they have to come to me now. I have made so much effort and had it thrown in my face by all three, my own sanity and protection and dignity they have to come to me. I have also decided I am not going to pick up after them or tidy away even one more bowl. Nothing. If they find themselves living in a pigsty, so be it. When it comes too much for me, I'll scoop all their crap up and put it to one side or in their bedrooms. I've had enough.

This discussion has led me to ask two more questions which came out from your responses. I'll start a new thread for one, but I'll ask the other here. I am really really surprised at how rude these SKs are and how they are so arrogant and selfish in the way they speak to adults about their wants and demands being satisfied over everyone else's. I am even more surprised that some of you think it's normal. Like I wrote, my peers and I were never like this, and there was never a cut-off age either of children not going on holiday with our parents - we all did and continued to do so, making the transitions from kid to teenager to young adult along the way, whilst still taking holidays. All the cousins in my DP's family do this, so our hope that this happens doesn't seem to be so peculiar. What is, is their selfish behaviour.

So I suppose I am asking, if you accept that the SKs say they still want to come on holiday (which they did and DP and I believe they will do again), but they are untidy, selfish and whinge all the time ruining it for others, other than them not coming at all, what could parents/SPs do to make the experience better for all?

OP posts:
ThinkIlikeit · 11/08/2017 15:37

I stopped going on holiday with my parents when I was 15. I don't know what other families did or do but we were happy with that. I honestly wouldn't bother taking them in your shoes. It's ridiculous. Did they get anything out of it? I would just say, everyone's doing their own thing next year.

But to answer your question about how to make it a better experience if you insist on taking them, I would just let them get on with it and do what they want to do If you expect your partner to get them to contribute, that will cause conflict as you have already had. You can't make them be polite and helpful and from what you say about your partner, he won't either.

hatsoncats · 11/08/2017 15:40

You're on a hiding to nothing. Nothing will change.
Good luck, and see you back here in 6 months time.

thestamp · 11/08/2017 15:45

The fact that you've already labelled one of his children "the toxic one" makes it really clear that you are not going to have a happy life in this situation.

You do know that the child is only doing what he has been taught to do by his parents... It's your dp who is the toxic one but you don't want to see that, you're going to blame the children because you don't want to end your relationship. Instead you will set things up in your head as "us - me and dp" vs. "them - the DC".

This is where the wicked stepmother tropes all begin.

Feel sorry for the children really. You and your DP sound like you barely have an emotional brain cell to rub together between you. Sorry I know that's harsh but god what an incredibly frustrating thread

ShatnersWig · 11/08/2017 15:51

thestampt Loads of threads use the word toxic about parents, family members. I see no reason why it's OK to use about those people but not teenagers. If someone is behaving like a total shit, they're behaving like a total shit whether they're your kids, his kids, someone else's kids.

OP Putting the holiday stuff aside, I'm with you in terms of behaviour. I never behaved like a lot of teenagers seem to get away with and I know my peers were the same as me. We talk about it all the time (hell, we used to say that in our late 20s, let along now in our early 40s, about how appalling many teens are and it's absolutely got worse). It astonishes me every time someone trots out with "that's normal teenage behaviour" because it isn't - or doesn't have to be.

SaffronStrands · 11/08/2017 15:56

thestamp - I can assure you nobody, including his mum, has taught this 17/18 year old to behave in the way he does. He is falling out with everyone, his school teachers, his mum and her husband, his dad and now me and I am trying really hard to make the situation better, having already forgiven him for an earlier rude outburst against me, whilst protecting the welfare of two other children and my relationship. Yet you feel sorry for him, well that's up to you, but I cannot for one moment see how.

If you find this thread so frustrating, please feel free to leave. Insulting me as you have done really isn't helpful, nor decent of you.

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 11/08/2017 15:58

I stopped going on holiday with parents age 17. I did it once in my 30s and swore never again after that.

the rest of it you have unrealistic expectations.

If you had said a mix and not all boys I'd have had you down as my ex's new partner

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 11/08/2017 15:59

Sorry actually age 16 was my last holiday with them.

ThinkIlikeit · 11/08/2017 16:05

Just because dp's cousins still go on holiday with their parents doesn't mean these three young men (your words) have to go away with you. The way you would ideally like it to go just isn't realistic. I think it's madness to insist on it. You tried it and it was horrendous.

scoobydooagain · 11/08/2017 16:10

I think you should disengage, these are not your children so leave the parenting to the parents. For your own sanity why don't you and their dad just date for the next couple of years or so. My situation is not perfect, after nearly 5 years with my partner I have still not met the eldest, which is quite strange but also very angst free. If anything happened to my partners ex I would expect him to move out and move in with his children rather than them move in with us.

SaffronStrands · 11/08/2017 16:11

ThinkIlikeit - I'm not sure where the "insist" bit keeps on coming in. We asked if the SKs wanted to come with us. They all said yes, including the 17 now 18 year old who refuses to holiday with his mum. My question is about the future, and if again they say they want to come with us. If they don't, they won't. There was and will not be any insistence about it. My point about the cousins was to address comments which thought it bizarre than teenagers were going on holiday with their parents/SPs at all - that I don't think it's odd or unusual at all, as evidenced by all the cousins.

OP posts:
ladystarkers · 11/08/2017 16:29

Honestly after just returning from holiday with my own teen who is nearly 16, it was hellish!

seagreengirl · 11/08/2017 17:57

I am really really surprised at how rude these SKs are and how they are so arrogant and selfish in the way they speak to adults about their wants and demands being satisfied over everyone else's. I am even more surprised that some of you think it's normal

It's not normal OP, even in families in which the parents have separated. It's common on MN to excuse any bad behaviour by children, and these are young men, as just what teens do. Well this is just not true and should not be accepted.

I agree with others who say you should move out for a while. Best wishes.

isadoradancing123 · 11/08/2017 18:00

Do not tolerate this behaviour from them, why would you, it is def not normal teenage behaviour, besides they are not young teenagers

Cary2012 · 11/08/2017 18:00

OP there have been times when I wanted to walk out on my three teens and I'm their mum!

Just a few points: they're not your step kids. Middle son isn't toxic. You need to pick your battles.

The only way for this to work is for you to accept the set up. You're on a hiding to nothing if you imagine you can change it.

Comparing these boys to others is pointless. They are what they are.

Their dad sounds weak, and therein lies the rub: do you love him enough to stay and accept things? I'm not defending these boys, they sound rude and disrespectful. They will probably, like a fine wine, improve with age. But you must, if you stay, lower your expectations and stop enabling them. You're doing too much cleaning and tidying after them,, so play the buggers at their own game, and stop.

SeaEagleFeather · 11/08/2017 18:11

I am really really surprised at how rude these SKs are and how they are so arrogant and selfish in the way they speak to adults about their wants and demands being satisfied over everyone else's

Not normal no. I'm with dione and hadron

Teens have a hard time, all that brain re-wiring going on for one thing, but I think this level of arrogance has developed because it's been acceptable in the past.

The key here is not that the young adults are so difficult, it's that their father turns cold with you after you are very upset. On his own he might be a decent partner. But he's not on his own, he's their father, they come as a deal. You'll have to accept that he thinks this behaviour is ok and suck it up, or you'll have to move into your own home and see if there's a future as a detached partner.

I think if you move into your own space, you'll find yourself deeply appreciating not being treated like this. Could be mistaken =)

AnneLovesGilbert · 11/08/2017 18:12

Why would you want to go on holiday with them again? It sounded horrendous! There's nothing wrong with you two going away together and him taking his sons away together.

I think you're being incredibly naive to stay living there. I don't see what you're trying to achieve. You might feel better for a while by disengaging but living in a pig sty will drive you mad and you'll resent them for being gross and you'll resent your DP for not expecting more of them. You sound like a nice person but you're on a hiding to nothing. If you're worried that moving back a step and not living together is failing, it's not. It's taking the opportunity to try a different dynamic and may mean your relationship has a chance of surviving.