DH has just done something he's never ever done before

[sleepingonthesparebed]

Called 111 about his own DS without thrusting the phone at me or staring at me in utter bafflement when I seek out of hours medical help for the DC.

He's even just given DS calpol without asking for my help and taken him to the OOH appointment just now, on his own. This is a big thing for DH.

Now I just need to work on these things with him:

-not just buying what he needs from the supermarket and forgetting everything else even if he has a list

-not buggering off in his Lycra on another flaming bike ride when the DC and I are expecting to spend time with him

-him being more proactive and involved with getting the DC to bed

-him arranging childcare, packed lunches and signing letters from school (steady on!)

-only taking his stuff from the laundry basket
and leaving it on top of the washing machine 'to be washed'

• tidying up the kitchen while I'm still cooking and putting the things I'm going to use away before I've had a chance to use them

• telling the DC to eat their veg but leaving his on the side of his plate

-not staring at me and DS in abject frozen horror when DS is screaming and won't sleep but instead actually offering kind soothing words and cuddles and help with the bedtime routine.

He can be such an insensitive selfish tosser at times. Other times he completely lovely.

Currently the improvement plan is work in progress but at least with the OOH incident I have a glimmer of hope for the future.

Please share your tales of similar DH tosspotterty and how you (and they) overcame them. LTB isn't an option but was considered at 3.26 this morning when the fucker refused to move or help with screaming baby.

He sounds like a selfish arse.

And you have a long list of improvements that you want him to make...

Maybe it would help if you had separate baskets?
One for whites and one for colours? Then he could be responsible for one and you for the other.

HarmlessChap - I'm still not great with the laundry

Well, that's because you don't have breasts. They're essential for doing tricky tasks like operating a washing machine.

I don't see the issue with being clear about what needs doing, how and by whom if it makes life better and helps prevent resentment building up.

You mean the wife being clear about ewhat needs doing. Read Wifework - www.amazon.co.uk/Wifework-Susan-Maushart/dp/0747561729?tag=mumsnetforum-21

While I understand the idea of not praising your DH for dealing with the child's medical needs, knowing that you appreciate it when he does get more involved will encourage him to do more, probably.

And do husbands praise their wives all the time for doing PERFECTLY NORMAL ADULTING AND PARENTING AND LOOKING AFTER A HOUSE? NO.

You silly old fool. Sod off with your patronising views.

Lweji, we have separate baskets, one for me and one for him. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and at 70 I think I have to accept that he is just an awkward old bugger.

I honestly don't understand why so many women stay with useless men, moan about them and then decide to have a baby with them and act surprised that they are still useless. Are you so desperate to not be single? It's not so bad.

Re all the "I don't understand why women stay" posts.

I stayed for nearly 20 years and I did have kids with him knowing he was lazy around the house. And I consider myself a raving feminist.

It really was not because I was scared to be single or thought having a man gave me status, though. I'm single now, and I love it, in fact I have always liked being alone and never feared it.

It was because I lurved him, and fell for the lovely, funny, quirky, kind and intelligent man I thought I had met. As I said earlier, I just couldn't compute that Mr Lovely could actually deliberately leave me with all the work. I genuinely didn't believe he would want to do that, it was just that he hadn't realised how much work there was, or hadn't adjusted from his previous messy lads' flat existence. I continued trying to get through to him, and/or accepting his excuses that he was forgetful or whatever.

It took me a loooooong time to just see who he really was - a horribly insecure person who put on the Mr Charming act to win approval, but constantly needed to passive-aggressively get one over on me by not doing what I wanted. Then he would deny, lie and gaslight when I tried to discuss things with him and I'd get furious. By nagging and getting cross, it ended up with me cast as the anal, angry henpecking bitch while he was the poor "harmless" victim who was just so lovely and laid-back.

It took me ages to untangle it all but now I understand that Mr Nice was actually seething with resentment and anger, perhaps just because I expected him to do a fair share instead of leaving everything to wifey, perhaps angry at women in general. The more I tried to get him to pull his weight, the more deliberately obstructive and difficult he became.

I ended up really scared of him because I could sense how much he wanted to get back at me, but he wouldn't admit it or discuss it. I was also scared of separating and having the kids stay with him when they were younger, because of his incompetence and underlying unpleasantness.

As should be well-known by now, it's not always easy to just walk out. Men who don't do their share are perhaps not always the nicest men and can be difficult in other ways too.

Having said all that though, I DO think we should be making a big deal of this and telling our kids never to get serious with someone who doesn't pull their weight.

I had a dysfunctional and abusive childhood which was almost certainly a big reason I took the crap for so long.

PetalHead that's a brilliant pair of posts, I identify and agree with every word - really insightful.

BTW you and other posters might be interested in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2906263-why-do-people-stay?pg=3

There was also another thread last week saying that men refusing to pull their weight on maintenance for a house was a form of abuse too:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2970967-To-really-hate-my-house?

How did you get out of the relationship Petal or are you still involved?

I honestly don't understand why so many women stay with useless men, moan about them and then decide to have a baby with them and act surprised that they are still useless. Are you so desperate to not be single? It's not so bad.

A 20 something couple who live together and basically only have to sort their own washing and do two plates a night after having eaten lunch at work have no concept of housework ime.

Bathroom needs a wipe down and a load of clothes bunged in machine. The female in this situation might not even mind or notice being the laundry person at this point.

then you have a baby.

And then you take maternity leave and obviously you're home so you can do the washing and laundry and the vomit and the cloth nappies and the poonamies.

And then somehow. A precedent is set. And you go back to work and you're still doing the bulk of the house work.

And then baby 2 arrives and you're at home again with the poonamies but also the kid's gym kit and your husband sweaty pants.

Point being I doubt most young women are marrying and deciding to have babies with slovenly beasts, I think it sort of happens.

staplescorner thanks, yes I left, it took me about 2 years from being sure I had to do it, to finding the courage.

It's "amicable" in that we do our best to get on, do stuff together with the kids etc. and I know he does try. He can actually run his own home fine, and although it's galling to see it, I'd rather for the kids sake he pulls his finger out.

I'm a lot less anxious than I was and it's bliss not having to live with him. I do worry about the DC and their relationships with him, but it's better than it could be, fingers crossed. He is still passive-aggressive and "forgets" about agreed contact arrangements etc, but I know there's no point trying to get him to see that, so instead I just work on staying calm and pleasant but disengaged.

One of the hardest parts is that his friends still only see the lovely bloke / hard-done-by victim act and I can't disabuse anyone of that because I need him to be on an even keel.

Agree with Bunlicker too. It's easy and fairly normal to be lazy and selfish pre-kids. You go out late, you lie in, you leave the dishes etc if you want to. I assumed that because he was so nice, he would of course step up when necessary, when we had kids, a mortgage and all the house admin, a car, school stuff to deal with etc. After all, that's what I did!

staples I noticed earlier you said you hope to leave. Can I help to encourage you or what is standing in your way at the moment? I know it's hard and can take time to get to that point.

There is really no excuse for these losers is there. Back in the 1950s my DF worked a six day week with long hours. That didn't stop him from doing his share of housework/parenting - without the need of being given a list - and I assumed all men did this.

When I had my first serious relationship I was beyond shocked when the bloke did NOTHING. I assumed he was a one off throw back and dumped him. Then the second one was the same. I vowed after dumping that one too never to get into a relationship where I was the designated domestic drudge because I didn't have a penis. I set my bar a hell of a lot higher and had some very happy relationships.

I know someone who put up with her serial cheater 'D'H until she divorced him when they were both 60ish. She did EVERYTHING - all parenting, all housework, all decorating, all gardening. She said she decided to remain with him for the sake of the three children and waited until the third had left home aged 20 before divorcing him. I don't know how a person makes the decision to effectively live a half live for twenty years. I would have shriveled up inside and died.

I also have news for the women who go into relationships with these losers - things don't get better after having a baby - it can only get worse and that increases ten times for each subsequent child. If you don't care, cos although he is a useless shit, you lurve your man, then put up and shut up, no point complaining.

If you don't care, cos although he is a useless shit, you lurve your man, then put up and shut up, no point complaining.

But I think it's more complex than that because what I meant by "lurve", the kind of romantic love that we grow up learning to aspire to, can mask who a person really is. Ideally women need to learn to see clearly what a man like this is up to and how his mind works that he thinks this is OK. And get wise to it.

Don't put up and shut up - start questioning and seeing clearly, and make arrangements to get out if that's what will improve your life. "Lurve" can come to an end, and sometimes should.

And yes of course ideally don't get involved in the first place - and I hope in the future more and more women won't (as well as any men who find themselves with someone like this of course).

But plenty of women are involved already and I really don't think that means they made their bed and have to lie in it. Not any more.

No, you're quite right. But there are women who would prefer to live like this rather than be without a man in their lives. If they consciously make that choice I see no point in them then complaining.

I am mid 50s H is 60s has retired, and still does nothing, even less in fact - we reached a crisis last summer but I have always known there is something terribly wrong. All the threads on here have helped me, particularly the "incompetent husband" which I think was last year. I am gradually removing the obstacles to leaving but I am so sad that DDs are now mid-late teens and I've let them live with it all these years. I remember DD1 when she was about 4 asking me "why is Daddy so lazy?"

We have been married 29 years in October. Anyway, I need to make sure our finances are sorted, but mostly I think god he's never going to go away you can live with someone 30 years and then they just let go . He wouldn't want access to the kids but I worry DD2 feels sorry for him and would end up replacing me as a skivvy/carer. He definitely seems to be lining her up for it. So Petal I was interested when you said you were worried about how he would be with your DCs.

I have always told my DDs that what he does is not normal, and its not ok - we have other male role models that they can look to so they are painfully aware of his selfish and entitled attitude, and how he prizes his nice guy image outside of the home.

Rorty I have always said if I can get away from him, I will live alone - could never go through that again. And like Petal I had an abuse/dysfunctional childhood so initially I thought I'd done really well! Nice guy, intelligent, witty, liked stuff I liked ...

I wish you a smooth and speedy exit to a happy rest of your life StaplesCorner and everyone else planning to escape.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2974382-Have-an-opinion-when-you-earn-40k-a-year?pg=10 - point in case here Rorty - OPs latest post (penultimate page 10) is a corker - she knows her place!!
PS thanks for kind wishes xx

Yep I just posted on that thread. Some people will put up with anything. I would have ripped him a new one. I offered a burial under my patio but think she's reluctant to accept my generous offer

What are you with him?

He's a loser.

being a selfish arse seems to be a pre-requisite for these lycra clad mid-life cyclists.

how long ago did we lose the OP ??

She's suffocated under a mountain of dirty laundry.

Don't worry. There are about 12 of these threads every day. She'll be adequately replaced.

Oh staples wishing you all the luck and energy you need. I think with your DDs, seeing you walking away from this and saying no to it, is important and a good thing, at whatever age. And the fact that you haven't pretended to them that it's all OK helps too.