DH has just done something he's never ever done before

[sleepingonthesparebed]

Called 111 about his own DS without thrusting the phone at me or staring at me in utter bafflement when I seek out of hours medical help for the DC.

He's even just given DS calpol without asking for my help and taken him to the OOH appointment just now, on his own. This is a big thing for DH.

Now I just need to work on these things with him:

-not just buying what he needs from the supermarket and forgetting everything else even if he has a list

-not buggering off in his Lycra on another flaming bike ride when the DC and I are expecting to spend time with him

-him being more proactive and involved with getting the DC to bed

-him arranging childcare, packed lunches and signing letters from school (steady on!)

-only taking his stuff from the laundry basket
and leaving it on top of the washing machine 'to be washed'

• tidying up the kitchen while I'm still cooking and putting the things I'm going to use away before I've had a chance to use them

• telling the DC to eat their veg but leaving his on the side of his plate

-not staring at me and DS in abject frozen horror when DS is screaming and won't sleep but instead actually offering kind soothing words and cuddles and help with the bedtime routine.

He can be such an insensitive selfish tosser at times. Other times he completely lovely.

Currently the improvement plan is work in progress but at least with the OOH incident I have a glimmer of hope for the future.

Please share your tales of similar DH tosspotterty and how you (and they) overcame them. LTB isn't an option but was considered at 3.26 this morning when the fucker refused to move or help with screaming baby.

She spent about 10 years trying to make him "see"... She thought if only she could come up with a way to make him understand that she did everything then he would suddenly start doing his share.

OMG this was me as well. I literally could not grasp that he was happy for me to do more than him and be responsible for all the household crap. Because if he really understood how much more I did than him, he'd feel bad, wouldn't he? And want to do his share? Because he loved me...?

I was such an idiot.

And OP mine could be "completely lovely" too - it's his calling card. He sees himself as Mr wonderful, sweet and charming and he projects that image to everyone else. Of course he does, there had to be something I liked about him in the first place or I wouldn't have ended up with him. And because I fell for it I thought he was a §nice person and therefore couldn't possibly want^ to dump everything on me the way he did...

Not surprised that you have depression and low libido with such a useless lump for a husband

Why do women enable these awful men?

Back to stereotype.

I have lost count of the number of times I've heard:

"Men just don't see mess the way we do"
"Men just have lower tolerance for hygiene"
"Men are naturally dirty/stinky"
"Women just have natural instincts with kids, men don't"

Etc. It's ingrained that men and women have different domestic standards. It's not, as per my post above it's more habit, wiping and washing as you go, to the point that other people don't even notice. When men have never developed those habits because their mothers buy into the stereotype and never teach them, i don't think they do actually see when stuff needs doing. As with all things it take practice, and to start they will be inefficient- doing all the washing on one day means no space to dry it, wiping down the surface after every use is better than trying to scrub dried on milk. Then for many women the learning curve is too slow, and come on, they should know this stuff if they thought about it. Then they start remembering that "men don't see mess like we do", think it's unsolvable, and carry on doing it themselves.

And with kids they believe that they are not able to settle the baby as well as a woman. Women know about babies "naturally", and they can't do it as well.

Everytime someone calls out sexism and is told they're being petty, and whats the harm if gdd likes playing mummy and helping, gds doesn't enjoy it so why bother. Everytime women with dd's expect them to be like them, enjoy shopping and manicures while dad goes to the football with son.

It all adds up. Those sons will think it's perfectly normal to go off to football or in their lycra, women like staying at home or going shopping instead.

/rant.

How can anyone's standards be so low?

On what planet is anyone better off with this sort of person?

"Good communication is the key in a relationship, often I read posts where a woman wishes she didn't have to spell out to her OH what she needs them to do. Whilst I understand why that is the ideal situation, I don't see the issue with being clear about what needs doing, how and by whom if it makes life better and helps prevent resentment building up"

And just to add to other's excellen comments on this- even if it was OK that the woman has to be responsible for spelling out how things should be done, why would she have to do it more than once? Why would the bloke concerned not just say "Oh, shit, I'm sorry, I didn't realise- I'll put my washing in the basket from now on"? But it just doesn't seem to work that way, does it?

But only a little child doesn't know that laundry goes in the basket. Anyone older is just expecting the resident skivvy to pick it up. I've a male friend who then kids treat him this way too - and shout at him when something they want isn't laundered - and I think he lets it go on because he's in denial about how horrible they are being and how doormatty he is being. It can't just be fear of confrontation surely?

The op mentions that if she were to fall ill the kids would be fed but their uniforms wouldn't be clean. That is totally shite parenting. And it's not generational, plenty of parents of both sexes have been able to do the basics for years.

Agreed, if kids were going to school in uniforms that weren't washed on a regular basis, school would be likely to raise concerns about neglect. Not to mention that the DC themselves would suffer as other kids would notice.

It's not good enough to just get fed.

The buggering off part would be a deal-braker for me. Unless you get equal time off of course.

Does he WANT to man up? or not?

User1499 - that is really controlling behaviour! What would happen if you did similar to him?

How do these 'useless' men hold down oftentimes senior roles while pretending to be being so incapable at home...
Honestly, OP, I know you intended it to be a lighthearted thread, but this situation sounds intolerable for you, long term.

I started reading the OP, thinking you were proud of him doing this thing as he has learning difficulties or autism or something

• tidying up the kitchen while I'm still cooking and putting the things I'm going to use away before I've had a chance to use them

Oh god mine does this too. I think he actually waits until I'm cooking before he starts tidying around me. I just go and sit down until he's done, I can't stand someone trying to occupy the same space as me.

Why is it your wife's responsibility to set out what needs doing, HarmlessChap?
I didn't say she was I simply said if it's not happening lay down what needs doing rather than allowing resentment to build.

Many men were raised without the slightest clue how to run a home, I'm fortunate that my mother had trained as a home economics teacher and taught me a lot, especially how to cook from scratch, but she died while I was still quite young and my father who never helped around the house employed a cleaner who also did the laundry thereafter. I'm still not great with the laundry as DW is hugely protective about the washing machine and if ever I suggest putting a load on (typically my sports kit which I'll need again in a a few days time) she tells me to leave it and she'll do it later. That's lead to issues as she forgets and then when I go to get my sports kit I find it still wet and muddy in the laundry basket albeit I have solved the problem by buying additional kit!

As it is I don't need telling what I think needs doing, but if there are other things she thinks need doing I expect her to tell me rather than wanting me to be a mind reader.

When DW worked part time she did more of the housework but now the DCs are teenagers she does a lot of voluntary work in addition to her full time job so I'm finding myself doing more than her around the house and garden to keep the place looking clean and tidy but as I said before I avoid doing chores with her around so she doesn't constantly say I'm using the wrong Hoover attachment or doing things in the wrong order or etc. Etc.

Oh god mine does this too. I think he actually waits until I'm cooking before he starts tidying around me. I just go and sit down until he's done, I can't stand someone trying to occupy the same space as me.

I have a similar thing, DW believes you should tidy as you go along while cooking. I clear down the surfaces before I cook then clean up at the end. She will sometimes start washing up bowls I've used for one prepped ingredient then placed to one side with the intention of using it for another in a moment. I hate her hovering around the kitchen while I cook.

My Dad was born in 1930. I don't think his mother "taught" him to run a home, he just used his brain to see what needed doing.

He could, and would, cook, clean, iron, launder and more. For a while mum worked and he looked after the home. When we were kids he did as much child care as Mum, took us to medical appointments, did bedtimes, all the many tasks of child raising that Dads so often dodge.

I never remember him using that phrase "I've done the washing up for you" either. Neither did he "babysit" his own children.

As a widower he looked after himself just fine. I knew a good few bereaved men who "can't cope" and re-marry quickly just to have a woman to look after them.

I too find it hugely unattractive when a man is apparently unable to look after himself. Probably because at the bottom of that is selfishness and entitlement.

BTW he wasn't a perfect man, he had his faults. But he wasn't an overgrown man-child.

I LTB for a lot less than this to be honest. And I was a SAHM with no income of my own when I did. It is always an option.

I just don't understand how anyone would put up with someone so shit. I'd rather be alone the rest of my life than settle for some arse that I had to play mum to.

HarmlessChap, SHUT UP. I'm so tired of this "aw I'm such a lovable old gaffer, watch me explain to women why they're wrong about selfish useless lovable old gaffers who are happy to watch them run themselves down to the ground".

Go talk to your fellow HarmlessChaps (TM), NiceGuys (TM) and DecentFellows (TM) with this underhanded, passive aggressive BOLLOCKS. We are SO TIRED of it.

It's all on a par with all the women buy men's consent/objectify men/commit domestic violence too drip drip crap isn't it?

Wow PoorYorick if you're getting so disturbed by my posts, and can't scroll past without getting so wound up, maybe you should take a bit of a rest from screen time.

Just shut up with your "calm down dear" bollocks. You are utterly predictable. I see you all the time being a HarmlessChap (TM), magnanimously coming onto Mumsnet and explaining to women why you're right and they're wrong, and yes it winds me up. Just stop it. You are not a lovable old gaffer among a bevy of amusing ladies. Stop. It.

Op, LTB, you deserve more than a useless fucker love.

Bertrand, I'm counting down to the inevitable "why am I not allowed my opinions just because I am a man" crap too. Nobody cares if men come onto Mumsnet, hell there's a whole section for them. But why do so many of them come on only to explain to us why we are wrong about these NiceGuys and HarmlessChaps (TM, TM) and then accuse us of needing to calm down (TM), when we get so fecking irritated with it?

Question for all the others who are lurking (I know you're there)...if you really want to use this predominantly female space to learn about women, why don't you look at why so many users don't leave abusive men, make excuses for lazy duffers and blame themselves whenever anything goes wrong? Why do you only seem to appear when you want to sneer at a thread about wedding outfits or explain to us why useless partners are actually in need of mothering communication?

To all men reading- you do realize that you could render feminism obsolete tomorrow, don't you? Would you like me to tell you how?

Omg, I'm so sorry, this situation is horrendous. I don't have much advice as this sort of thing is way out of my depth, but as PP's have said and as you seem to be doing already, record absolutely everything. Please do not lie to the police though, this will definitely not work out in your favour in the long run and regardless of who's the biological father, if he's on the Birth Certificate he does share parental right's.

The fact he is using MH issues against you is pretty disgusting and I'm sure the courts will see right through this tactic.

Wishing you the best of luck OP.

Oops, just posted on the wrong thread