Affair/separation - DH has asked me to leave. Do I go?

[runningLou]

To avoid drip feeding will not spare the details.
Unhappily married. I was caught cheating 4 years ago. Tried to mend everything for sake of kids. Didn't work, both very unhappy and with MH issues.
I recently met someone. Told DH I wanted to separate. We had discussed 'bird-nesting' with me staying over some nights to be with DC overnight. We want to keep the family home for the kids if possible.
DH has said tonight he wants me out. Every night, and basically told me I had made my choice and to move in with OM.
Don't want to do this - too soon, bad for kids, bad for everyone, I think.
Also I do not want to be the Mummy that leaves, and that is what it will look like to them.
Can I persist in staying? Am I right that me leaving and taking all my stuff (DH wants it gone) will be more distressing for kids?
Financially could just about manage to rent a room somewhere nearby so thinking of doing this. My idea is to come in every morning to do their breakfast, and stay every night till after bedtime. This is what we have been doing the past couple of weeks since we first talked and it has worked ok ... I thought.
House is in joint names, as are all savings.

What is important here is how the OP conducts herself now. Yes, the affair is how the marriage ended and yes, her husband is bitter about that and especially the fact that she wants to remain in a relationship with the OM>.

But actually, still living in the family home while slipping out for sleepovers with anyone is wrong, regardless of whether that was the affair partner, and this is where the focus should be. If the OP and the husband have not yet sorted out the separation then neither of them needs to be chasing new relationships yet.

So is anyone here going to say on the next cheating husband thread;

'So OP, your husband has had an affair. What did you do to drive him to it? I bet you were abusive to him?

Don't kick him out. Think of the kids.'

No? Didn't think so as you know you'd be torn to shreds.

No-one has said that here either.

No we dont agree. Because i wont assume or even put her cheating down to some imagined abuse.

She cheated. She hasnt indicated anything else. Hasnt sais the kids are at risk of abuse etc so there is no need to start making up some justifications for it.

That said i dont think that doing few bad things makes someone a bad person. The OP doesnt deserve to be called names. But i cant believe the amount of posters falling over themseleves to attemot to justify the affairs by making up situations that there is no evidence of.

And as I, and other posters, have said. Who asks women ehobhave been cheated on 'what did you do the cause his affair?'.

Lets be honest, a poster isnt going to admit they have abused their partner. Who would post 'just found out dh has cheated, i am devestated. He says its because i abuse him, which i do but....'

Its never the default to start wondering if the cheating man has been abused by his spouse.

Jesus, it's like listening to the Daily Mail's version of the actual news!

So some posters - myself included - have said - affairs aren't great. However we don't know the full story. We don't know what his contribution was - other Than she said it was an unhappy marriage. Read a previous poster's experiences for an example of how this can happen.

And to repeat (over and over ) - affairs are never ok. And also to repeat - yes, I would say this regardless of male or female. The abuse she's had is horrendous - from one poster in particular.

This doesn't, however, translate as - well he must have abused her! No one has said this - I certainly haven't!

(Meaning abuse from another poster, not her husband)

This thread makes me laugh. What a bunch of sexist bullshit. Women : give up your jobs, stay at home and bring up children and let your husband slog and be a walking wallet. If he cheats, he has to leave and you get the lions share of the assets and primary care if the children as you have sacrificed you career and your life has been "set up" for that. If YOU cheat, he STILL has to leave and you get the lions share of the assets and primary care of the children as your life has been "set up" for that. God, marriage is a complete mug's game for men.

Or - women, sacrifice your career potential in order to juggle work and being the primary carer for the children, as society expects of you - by reducing hours/ changing jobs/giving up work completely - only to find you're up shit creek without a paddle when the marriage breaks down - and you're left with the children and a lesser earning potential. This is the far more common scenario.

But be in no doubt, society also finds ways to guilt and lambast women should they dare to work FT in demanding jobs too. Women can't win.

The law protects women - and children - for this reason.

Saiman "Her dh, as far as we know hasnt cheated, so why does it matter that some men have had affairs that lasted years. What impact does that have on the op relationship or actions." I think that this is not a case of men being bad and women good. It is just that affairs happen, that is my point.

"The OP has had 2 affairs and now ended the marriage. But wants to continue on as though nothing has happened." I don; see that she wants to continue as if nothing has happebed. I would imagine she wnats out. But in teh meantime she and her husband will need to work out what will happen.

"If a man cheated but didnt want to give his wife space, he would have excuses made for him. No one would go 'well its not that bad because other people.....'"

I've not castigated men who have had affairs, or at least to my memory. I think in being honest (to her detriment) she has done something to attempt to help her husband and herself out of this terrible situation. That is all. My point is, that having affairs is nothing new. It happens and, although a bad thing usually, I think the OP (in even considering leaving her children, which I think would be disastrous for all) is trying to make amends.

Gut " Reading back and from what Italian has pointed out also..." It is not clear to me if she started an affair the second time or simply told her dh she had met someone. My point was whatever did or did not happen she did (fairly soon, thanks to the word recently) come clean and tell her dh. Which I think shows she did want to be honest and not cheat/continue cheating. Just my feelings on the matter.

MummyMiddleton everyone deserves respect. She has come here of her own free will for advice and support. Mumsnet is for support.

"If it were a man who had cheated on a woman ypu would all treat him like shit and tell her to kick him to the kurb." I cannot remember reading very many threads on here where men cheated. And I don;t think I would advise anyone to kick their man to the curb. Most of the threads I read on here from women are where their men are being abusive, gaslightening, controlling etc. As long as a woman (or man) is not being abused by their partner I don't think it is my place to recommend they split up. But if they want to split up, I would be supportive.

None of that means taking them away from their kids or locking them out of their own home!

Good luck being an 'EQUALIST'. Your "a good swab of shite" got deleted so hope you feel you've done your bit.

Saiman "Are you saying when a partner cheats for the second time you should just forget that they have already done it before?" But the OP does not seem to want her husband to just forget it. She wants out. That is totally different to asking your dh to forgive you. She is a free person, not his chattel! Yes, she broke her wedding vows but she is now choosing to leave, or so I believe, so in a way this is all part of wanting out, IMHO.

You are talking as if she wants the marriage to continue and is trying to force her dh to forgive her and hang on in there with her. I cannot see this is what she is doing at all. Quite the opposite.

*The OP hasn't mentioned any abuse." So we do not know.

I think the OP has purposely not said anything harmful about her OP. I think this may be because she feels guilty for the affair, not because he was a prince among men. Again, a hunch. Feel free to ignore me.

Gut I am so sorry to hear what your ex did to you. I am so glad you got free.

We really do not know that the OP is slipping out for sleepovers.

Fig "'So OP, your husband has had an affair. What did you do to drive him to it? I bet you were abusive to him?"

No, because Mumsnet is for support, so we will try and be supportive and helpful to the poster, as they are the only person we know in the equation.

fatdogs your view on marriage is very sad, I hope it is not from real life experience but that is not everyone's experience, honestly.

I have no doubt that affairs are incredibly painful for the betrayed person.

But the scorn and judgement that have been poured on the OP by some posters are something else . Just why?

Why do people feel entitled to judge others in this way? Feels like something of a lynch mob mentality.

Maybe because they should have dealt with it like an adult not gone and jumped on the first shoulder to cry on dick to suck on type bloke. Sees first hand what damage the first affair caused couldnt fix it Ohhh i know the perfect solution do it again instead of just separating.

Have a bun fight

I don't judge the OP at all for having the affair. I judge her for wanting to have everything her way at the expense of her husband. I think the children are a convenient excuse. As long as she uses the children as the shield, she can argue that she should remain in the house and receive financial support from him. She had an affair, she has a new relationship, therefore she should be than one to leave. Have the common human decency to try and minimise the upheaval that she has already caused to her husband's life. That's the least she could do. You wouldn't expect anything less if it was a man in OP's position.
I bet she wasn't thinking of her children when she was having it off with the OM.
Posters questioning what thebhusband di to drive her to an affair. Talk about victim blaming! A phrase that posters love on MN but only when the "victim" is a woman it seems. Men cheat on women it's men's fault, women cheat on Men,it's still men's fault.

fatdogs "she should remain in the house" it is her house too!

"receive financial support from him" support for their children!

She should not move out.

So would you be telling a man who had had an affair and damaged the mental health of his wife that HE should not move out. Even if the atmosphere was toxic and stressful to her? If that's your position then I agree that OP should not move out. It should be equal across the board.
If we accept that a cheating woman who is part owner of the house should not move out In this scenario, then that should equally apply to a cheating man who was also part owner of the house.

It's nothing to do with the 'woman' or the 'man' - it's to do with the practicalities of care for the children.

The children are not a 'shield' - they are living beings that need stability and as limited upheaval as possible.

If their mother is the primary carer, then they need her living with them. Not chucked out on the doorstep with a suitcase.

She's stuck really. She wants out of the marriage, but she also wants to do the best by her children. They both want the children to remain in the family home - but he's not up to being the primary caregiver (apparently he's not even able to do the school run). So what should she do, bearing in mind she's trying to make sure the children are properly cared for?

These facts remain the same whether she's had an affair or not .

Maybe his mental health might improve and he will be able to take over care if his main stressor and trigger is out if the house?

Maybe. But what about the children in the meantime? What if he doesn't improve. The children need care now. You don't play the battle of sexes crap when you're dealing with continuity of care for children. They're not pawns, to be made to suffer because of transgressions of a parent.

I do this that the presumption in courts of maintaining the status quo so that the person who moves out very seldom gets the chance to be reinstated as the main carer of their children is one of sticking points here. It is awful that they have to continue to share the house and that cannot be good for the husband's mental health, but if she does move out that will be read by the children, the courts and society as she dumped her children so she could run off with another man.

i have just given the law on here. I earned a lot more than my ex and I paid out to him. The law is fairly gender neutral. We both did as much at home as each other and both worked full time.

I have said to this lady and would say to her husband don't leave the marital home until your divorce is fully finalised as that gives you the strongest legal position. It doesn't matter whether someone has committed adultery or whatever (in terms of the law) - it still remains the best advice not to leave the home.

I certainly encourage men only to marry women who earn good amounts and are ambitious and will always work full time even when babies come and women only to marry men who are feminist and will do as much as women at home and hopefully are also similarly ambitious.

We shared the house for 7 months - it was not fun but it certainly concentrated the minds on negotiating the financial order after divorce.

"So would you be telling a man who had had an affair and damaged the mental health of his wife that HE should not move out." Fatdogs I am not sure how much the OP is responsible for her husband's mental health.

"Maybe his mental health might improve and he will be able to take over care if his main stressor and trigger is out if the house?"

The children are not a prize for not cheating or for being mentally well. Healing takes a long time, children's needs are immediate. I don't think she has made him mentally unwell by cheating! She may not have helped but you cannot lay all this at the OP's door. If she is doing that it is guilt talking not reason, IMHO.

"It should be equal across the board." Then we agree.

The rights and wrongs of this particular OP aren't really what the thread is about anymore.The OP is long gone, probably to another username.

It's really about the differing ways that men and women are treated on here and I think there needs to be a proper discussion on whether Mumsnet is just for women or both men and women. If it's also for men, then it needs to actually take men's views into account, not merely the views that chime with women's.

I think you make a fair point.

I think it's also worth looking at the treatment of people coming on here looking for support in the aftermath of an affair - where they are the perpetrator. For some posters they are seen as fair game for a figurative kicking - as someone mentioned upthread, it's like a pack mentality. One poster was almost jubilant.

In terms of double standards - I suspect those posters saying 'there will undoubtedly be more to this' would say the same if the genders were reversed (I know I would), and those who are on the attack would be the same again if the genders were reversed.

So i think it's not such a case of double standards; more a case of a different approach.

"women, sacrifice your career potential in order to juggle work and being the primary carer for the children, as society expects of you - by reducing hours/ changing jobs/giving up work completely - only to find you're up shit creek without a paddle when the marriage breaks down - and you're left with the children and a lesser earning potential. This is the far more common scenario. "

This is also a fair point. Certainly happened to me.