Affair/separation - DH has asked me to leave. Do I go?

[runningLou]

To avoid drip feeding will not spare the details.
Unhappily married. I was caught cheating 4 years ago. Tried to mend everything for sake of kids. Didn't work, both very unhappy and with MH issues.
I recently met someone. Told DH I wanted to separate. We had discussed 'bird-nesting' with me staying over some nights to be with DC overnight. We want to keep the family home for the kids if possible.
DH has said tonight he wants me out. Every night, and basically told me I had made my choice and to move in with OM.
Don't want to do this - too soon, bad for kids, bad for everyone, I think.
Also I do not want to be the Mummy that leaves, and that is what it will look like to them.
Can I persist in staying? Am I right that me leaving and taking all my stuff (DH wants it gone) will be more distressing for kids?
Financially could just about manage to rent a room somewhere nearby so thinking of doing this. My idea is to come in every morning to do their breakfast, and stay every night till after bedtime. This is what we have been doing the past couple of weeks since we first talked and it has worked ok ... I thought.
House is in joint names, as are all savings.

To me, it sounds like a classic case of abusive husband and a wife who wants out

Wtf? If a someone posted here that they had mental health issues and their husband kept cheating on them and the husband wanted to spend all their time pretending to be a happy family while she wanted space. Would you really post that the OP must be abusive and that justifys the husband behaviour?

No one is saying the hisband is perfect. No husband is. No wife is. Its a massive leap from not perfect to abuser.

To me, it sounds like a classic case of abusive husband and a wife who wants out

Dont give up your day job just yet.

Neither can exclude the other from the house until a divorce and its finances are finalised in most cases (unless there is an anti-violence type court order in place (and there seem to be no grounds for one here)). So they can both stay where they are. If the husband is too ill even to take children to school then it is doubtful he will be able to care for the children alone so the mother is going to have to stay put for the children's sake too, never mind her own financial interests.

So mother needs to see a solicitor, get some advice and then serve a divorce petition (ideally a draft one) on the husband's solicitors for comment and then amend and serve it and get on with negotiating the financial arrangements post divorce.

IMO I'm with angle shades. It's not about your DH the children have to come first. People get hurt in life but your priority has to be DC. If you've been the main carer then I think this should continue. Marriages break down, shit happens. DH is a grown man he needs to put his children first and deal with the situation.

@CaretakerToNuns I assume you'd be happy if your husband had an affair, then kicked you out of your house and kept the kids, telling you you could only see them EOW and maybe once a week after school?

FFS.

I have often seen posts on various threads on MN claiming mnetters, on the whole, are prejudiced against men.

Judging by this thread it seems this is true.

I was taken by surprise by the prejudice against people with mental health problems, shown on this thread. Although perhaps it's only men with mental health problems.

It's been an eye-opener.

I had an unhappy marriage. After discussing us splitting up and being talked out of it I did meet someone. I moved out and rented a house but took the children with me from day one. He stayed in the family home. The children even then felt like I had left them (and were told I did my exh). We shared custody 60/40 and still do nearly 18 months later.

Whatever problems we had I will also be the one who left him for someone else and the bitterness and anger I imagine will stay around for a long time yet

Don't leave them there, you will regret it

To me, it sounds like a classic case of abusive husband and a wife who wants out

It's great when you can just make stuff up to suit your own prejudices. I mean, the decent thing to do is base responses on the information provided, but if you can just pull stuff out of your arse it's so much more entertaining.

Caffe "...then kicked you out of your house and kept the kids..." Where does it say the OP wants to kick him out of the house?

LostGarden "I have often seen posts on various threads on MN claiming mnetters, on the whole, are prejudiced against men." What do you think 'prejudiced against men' means in this context? Do you think if the table was turned, genuinely, here that people would feel the male partner, main carer of kids, should be thorn out with his bags on the step and the locks changed because he started an affair and wanted to end his marriage? I don't think so.

Way more posters have laid into the OP and called her a lot of nasty things than have tried to be supportive.

She has met someone else, it's not a clandestine affair which has gone on for ages, hence the word in the her opening post recently.

There are men who have long term affairs, years, decades even. It is so well known that there is a name for the woman they have the affair with, a mistress. There is (to my knowledge) no male equivalent of a mistress.

In order to really understand what is going on with affairs I would want to know how many people have affairs and want their marriage to continue and how many have affairs and want their marriage to end.

For people in the OP's position, who (it seems) wants her marriage to end, then I think this puts the affair in a very different light.

Yes, it's still hurtful etc but it is more understandable, she is not expecting her husband to put up with her having a new man. She is expecting (it seems) for the marriage to end and her concern is for the kids.

Italian she has also had a previois affair. Yet is still with her husband.

You can not jusify an affair. Just because some men have them for years, it does not mean the OP is justified in having a short one.

Playing a game of 'whose affair is worse' isnt helpful to anyone.

Also most people would not tell a mother with mental health problems to let the father take the kids. There would be advice on how to get well enough to care for them. The go to would not be 'oh mental health problems mean he is the better parent.

The OP claims she is the primary carer. This mau not be true. She works and had time to develop a relationship and have an affair. Its entirely possible the dh would dispute this.

So basically you want to have your cake and eat it too?

Wtf? If a someone posted here that they had mental health issues and their husband kept cheating on them and the husband wanted to spend all their time pretending to be a happy family while she wanted space. Would you really post that the OP must be abusive and that justifys the husband behaviour?

^ This!

Mumsnet double standards strike again.

She's not celebrating the fact that she's had an affair. She's stating the facts.

It's completely irrelevant in the eyes of the law (and in my mind, morally too on terms of the children - in terms of the husband thats a different matter,)

Leaving your husband or wife - no matter what the reason (unless abuse / child protection) does not mean you have to leave the child.

The husband is hurting. Doesn't mean the children should. It seems some posters almost want the wife to be shut out, in order to appease the husband.

This takes no account of the children and what is best for them. They need both, and I would say exactly the same no matter what the gender.

And according to the law they are each entitled to stay in the family home.

Saiman "Italian she has also had a previois affair. Yet is still with her husband."

I know, it is in the opening post. "Unhappily married. I was caught cheating 4 years ago. Tried to mend everything for sake of kids."

She wanted to stay for the kids. Maybe (almost certainly) that was a bad choice, but you cannot blame her for trying. Or rather I will not blame her for trying.

"You can not jusify an affair."

I think I can. I presume you mean you cannot.

To be honest I know I can. In some situations I think an affair is justifiable. Whether it is in this case I do not know. But at the end of the day, the marriage is over, she is not trying to keep an affair going behind his back, maybe she could have. But it does really sound like she came clean and was not found out. So the big picture is not that she had an affair so much as their marriage is ending.

"Just because some men have them for years, it does not mean the OP is justified in having a short one."

I am not trying to justify the OP's affair exactly, to be honest if the marriage is over it is over, yes, we make vows when we marry, we promise to be faithful but I also promised to love etc. I do love my husband but if I stopped how would the law compel me to love him. If the law cannot compel me to love him how can it compel me not to be unfaithful? It cannot. Marriage is made on trust, she has broken that trust but I have a huge hunch he has also broken that trust in some ways too.

I've said repeatedly said an affair is not usually a good thing, not at all. But the OP does not belong to her husband. She is a free individual and as much as you or I or anyone may disapprove she is entitled in law to sleep with whichever consenting adult she wishes to.

Many years ago (over 20 years ago), my aunt had an affair and was asked to leave not only the marital home but also her three children - all under the age of 10 - by my uncle.

She did so, and moved in with her OM, eventually marrying him when she became pregnant with the first of their children a few years later.

My cousins, however, never forgave her. At all. They may all be adults now, but two of them won't have anything to do with their mother at all. One does, but that's because she's worked out that my aunt feels incredibly guilty about having abandoned them (my uncle told her that she would be allowed to return when he found somewhere to live and that she could have the children full-time in their home and he'd have them every Saturday... but he lied. As soon as she was out, he changed the locks and started divorce proceedings, using her abandonment of their children together "for the other man" as part of her unreasonable behaviour) and is exploitable.

My uncle was a nasty man. My aunt was barely old enough to legally marry him when they did so, against family advice, and she was miserable. Her OM made her feel appreciated. I can completely understand why she had an affair - but I cannot understand how she could leave and not take my cousins with her.

My advice, OP? Don't leave. Your husband - even though he's the "innocent party", so to speak - ought to be the one to leave, if only because he's acting out of hurt pride and wounded ego. He's not thinking of what is best for your children at all, only about what is best for him.

"Playing a game of 'whose affair is worse' isnt helpful to anyone."

Actually, I think it is helpful when this woman is being castigated in this way.

So basically you want to have your cake and eat it too?

Wtf? If a someone posted here that they had mental health issues and their husband kept cheating on them and the husband wanted to spend all their time pretending to be a happy family while she wanted space. Would you really post that the OP must be abusive and that justifys the husband behaviour?

As others have pointed out, the difference here is that she is the primary carer for their children. If he was, then it would be a no-brainer, she should leave. The dc's won't suffer too much as their main carer will still be there.

In this case, if she leaves the dc's primary carer leaves too. And she can't afford to take them with her. So it's not as simple as the vast majority of cheating spouse stories we read about here.

(And the OP hasn't been back in two days so I doubt she's taking any more opinions on board.)

The difference in the double standards argument is that if this was a woman we were talking about it would likely be the woman who was posting for the support, in which case the reaction is different anyway. It's possible to acknowledge that an affair hurts the party who did not seek that to happen while at the same time knowing that there are likely two sides to the story. But if the person is seeking support with dealing with the aftermath then that is surely where the support and advice is given? You don't question someone as to what their part was or where the marriage had gone wrong or any number of things.

I do however agree that advising a woman to throw him out and change the locks and cut up his clothes etc is no more sound advice and shouldn't be given either.

As for talking about there being two sides to the story, remember that two sides doesn't necessarily have to equal abusive relationship where one was at fault for instance, it could just as easily mean that a couple have drifted apart due to never spending time together due to work or having no physical relationship any more, or no longer communicating and having drifted apart for any number of reasons. Not a case of blame or fault but potentially a case of circumstances leading to situations where one might confide in a friend and before you realise it things have gone from friendship to emotional to physical and you realise the marriage is no longer what you want, for instance.

And the truth is that if someone came here saying their partner was leaving purely because they were unhappy and didn't want to be with them any more, people would still slate the partner and call them names on here, even though they should be free to leave the relationship for any number of reasons. So while on some threads we uphold the affair as being the crime of all crimes which should end a marriage/relationship, in reality nobody is really supportive of anyone's choice to end a relationship if the person being dumped is the one seeking support.

It's a fair point. And of course we naturally project our own experiences onto anything of this nature - doesn't mean it's 'right' or 'wrong'. Just that was our particular experience.

Which I guess is what the OP was asking for.

The law however is completely different and is impartial.

Actually, I think it is helpful when this woman is being castigated in this way.

How? Her dh, as far as we know hasnt cheated, so why does it matter that some men have had affairs that lasted years. What impact does that have on the op relationship or actions.

Some women have cheated for years. That doesnt impact the OP either. Some people (men and women) have slept with their partners relations/best friends.....that still doesnt impact the OP.

The OP has had 2 affairs. So she is worse than someone who had one affair. But not as bad as someone who had 3. What does that matter?

The OP has had 2 affairs and now ended the marriage. But wants to continue on as though nothing has happened. If a man cheated but didnt want to give his wife space, he would have excuses made for him. No one would go 'well its not that bad because other people.....'

"But if the person is seeking support with dealing with the aftermath then that is surely where the support and advice is given? You don't question someone as to what their part was or where the marriage had gone wrong or any number of things"

I agree that's probably what should happen. Unfortunately exactly the reverse often (not always, but often enough) occurs on threads where it's a guy posting. Other posters dive in on his "faults" - they definitely do start to "question what their part was" and so on. And much more frequently than is, in my experience to date, the case when OP is a woman.

And, for what it's worth, most sources of information I can find suggest that about the same proportion (roughly 50%) of men and women will cheat on their partner at least once in a marriage.

There are serial female cheats and serial males that do. There are women that'll stray once because the marriage lacks something and men that "slip" just the once. We're more similar than we are different.

I'm not sure she had two affairs though did she? Reading back and from what Italian has pointed out also, it seems more like she had an affair four years ago and she and her h decided to stay together for the sake of the children. But then she met and developed feelings for someone else, and instead of having an affair with him she decided that actually, if she could again develop feelings for another man then clearly the marriage wasn't actually working so she left.

How many times do we tel people that if they've met someone else then they should end their marriage before embarking on a relationship with that person. The affair from four years ago is irrelevant. She and her husband decided to put it behind them, so it's not up to anyone else to throw that back at her. But if in fact she left the marriage because of developing feelings for someone else and embarked on that relationship after the event then she only did what everyone would advise on here.

My old message was deleted because it contained soem truth. Oh, shocker

No, it was deleted because it was a personal attack on the OP.