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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being unreasonable? Or is this woman literally the most pig-headed person in the world?

175 replies

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 10:25

Bit of a long one here – sorry!

I met my fiancee when he was separated from his then-wife, with whom he has two kids. When we met they'd been living apart for a few months and were planning a divorce.

When we got together he told me about his situation, and explained that although he doesn't get on well with her, she's agreed to let him see the kids whenever he wants (she insisted on full custody when they split - saying that he could see them whenever he likes. He didn't have enough money to fight this and she's been as good as her word). He is a doting father.

After we'd been dating for a few months (while the divorce was being finalised) she agreed to let me meet their kids (now 7 and 5). She then abruptly changed her mind the day I was due to meet them. I was a bit frustrated by the whole situation (was weird never having met them and being in love with their father/hearing so much about them from him) but wanted to see things from her point of view and had only been with him for a few months anyway.

I assumed that she'd mellow with time. WRONG! Fast forward FOUR years (we've been living together for the last three).

Due to her demanding job, she lives abroad with the kids, and he visits them several times a year and Skypes them a few times a week. This is hardly ideal, but her work requires it and it works for now.

Things are always very awkward between them (the moment the kids go to bed they stop talking and ignore each other) but the kids seem to be happy and absolutely adore their dad.

She, however, has remained bitter to the last, refusing to let me meet them as this was just him being "selfish" and "not putting the kids first." We recently got engaged, and he messaged her to give her the news before it was made public so she'd have time to digest. From what I can see, he has really tried at every point to be amicable for the sake of the children, but she is having none of it.

Anyway, you'd think that now we were getting married I could meet the kids, but ... nope. Apparently she still "doesn't see how they could possibly benefit" from meeting me. He's tried explaining that I am a huge part of his life, am here to stay and that the kids could only benefit from getting to know me as I'LL BE AROUND FOR EVER, but she is having none of it. He is understandably really upset about this, but doesn't know what can be done apart from seek legal action and get joint custody rights (he's worried that if he goes against her wishes she can stop him from seeing the kids).

So what do I do? I've really REALLY tried seeing things from her point of view over the last few years, but this feels pretty absurd now. I mean, how can their kids not benefit from knowing such a large part of their fathers' life? And how will they feel when they find out that their mother has refused to allow them to meet their stepmother? Won't they be upset to not be involved in the wedding? Wouldn't it have been better to grow up knowing me rather than suddenly being told about me xxx years down the line?

What can I do? Am I being mad here? Is this woman as mad/bitter as I think, or am I being unreasonable?

Tips/ideas appreciated.

Thanks :)

OP posts:
Adora10 · 26/06/2017 10:38

You are not being unreasonable no but tbh I'd just accept this is the way it's going to be until they are adults; she's never going to warm to you or allow them to be with you, his kids will not suffer by not seeing you so I'd leave it as it is and not even bother asking her anymore, it's a shame but she's got the upper hand at the moment, as long as they have a good relationship with their dad which they do then they won't lose out.

Phosphorus · 26/06/2017 10:42

If the children have never come back to visit their father, meeting you hasn't really mattered.

They are old enough to have a say, and if they'd rather their father stayed in a hotel with you when he visited, I suppose that might work. Or do they want to travel, an stay with their father?

I think they are old enough now that you'll never be a 'stepmother' figure, just their father's new wife, so I wouldn't push meeting them.

Also, if they only see their father a few times a year, they probably have very close relationships with others around them.

They might see their father as fun for visits, but not be terribly interested in having to see you during time with him.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/06/2017 10:56

I don't think it's helpful to characterize her as mad or bitter. You don't know what her motivation is, and presumably it's going to be about what she thinks is best for the children even if you don't agree with it.

Presumably the children know you exist because their father surely mentions your existence? Or has he been asked not to discuss you at all?

It sounds like that when he goes to visit them he's staying in her house, is that right? Is there any way he could stay somewhere else and have the children come to stay with him?

If she's in another country going down a legal route could be incredibly difficult and costly. Plus even if he did somehow get an agreement for shared residency how would that work practically when you're in different countries?

bigmouthstrikesagain · 26/06/2017 11:08

It is his 'fight' - he has accepted his ex-wife's preferences from the start and has gone along with access arrangements for a very long time. How old are the children as at some point their opinion is going to count for more surely? They will at some point be old enough to come and visit their father for holidays in UK. That might be the aim your partner can work towards in the future as his children do have a right to get to know and spend time with their father and no matter how much his ex wishes to avoid that eventuality if you are married then you will at some point meet your husbands children.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 26/06/2017 11:08

It is his 'fight' - he has accepted his ex-wife's preferences from the start and has gone along with access arrangements for a very long time. How old are the children as at some point their opinion is going to count for more surely? They will at some point be old enough to come and visit their father for holidays in UK. That might be the aim your partner can work towards in the future as his children do have a right to get to know and spend time with their father and no matter how much his ex wishes to avoid that eventuality if you are married then you will at some point meet your husbands children.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 26/06/2017 11:08

It is his 'fight' - he has accepted his ex-wife's preferences from the start and has gone along with access arrangements for a very long time. How old are the children as at some point their opinion is going to count for more surely? They will at some point be old enough to come and visit their father for holidays in UK. That might be the aim your partner can work towards in the future as his children do have a right to get to know and spend time with their father and no matter how much his ex wishes to avoid that eventuality if you are married then you will at some point meet your husbands children.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:12

Thanks for all your advice - really appreciate it.

Phosphorus: Do you really think they're old enough to have decided that already? They're only 5 and 7, which doesn't seem old enough to be making those decisions, but I may be wrong!

They've never come back to visit their father on their own because they're too young to fly alone - whenever they've been back in the UK she's come with them, and they stay in a hotel/air bnb so he sees them but I never do.

AssassinatedBeauty: Agree that the language choice may not be the most helpful - it's just such a frustrating situation. Also don't want to go into everything here, but basically she's tried to make things as difficult for us as possible throughout our entire relationship, hence the "bitter" comment. But agree that I need to try and see it from her point of view...it's just hard!

He stays with his ex when he visits - she has a huge place so it makes sense for him to be there to put them to sleep/help get them up in the morning. Might make more sense as you say for him to stay elsewhere, but obviously very costly and also may be weird for the kids to visit him in a hotel room.

He has told them about me, but as they're so young don't really know how much they understand. He's not yet told them "daddy is getting married", because he's thinking about the best way to explain it to them...

OP posts:
AndNowItIsSeven · 26/06/2017 11:16

A five and seven year old can fly as unaccompanied minors.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:16

Adora10: Thanks for taking the time to comment. Just curious though - do you really think they wouldn't benefit from meeting me? I'm not trying to be selfish - happy to wait if it's best for them - but don't see why it wouldn't be helpful for them to grow up knowing me/what their father's life is like. Going from personal experience - when my parents got divorced and remarried I would have found it really weird if I'd been prevented from meeting my stepmum/dad...

You are not being unreasonable no but tbh I'd just accept this is the way it's going to be until they are adults; she's never going to warm to you or allow them to be with you, his kids will not suffer by not seeing you so I'd leave it as it is and not even bother asking her anymore, it's a shame but she's got the upper hand at the moment, as long as they have a good relationship with their dad which they do then they won't lose out.

OP posts:
user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:17

Oops! Copied your comment below mine so I could refer to it and left it there accidentally. Fail.

OP posts:
user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:18

AndNowItIsSeven: True, but there's no chance in hell she'd let them get on a plane without her. She won't even let his parents see them without her (she doesn't like them, for no particular reason).

OP posts:
DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings · 26/06/2017 11:19

Have you ever spoken to her or the children?

notarehearsal · 26/06/2017 11:20

I guess a lot depends on why he left the marriage when his babies were , what, 1 and 3? She may not actually see him lasting the course with you particularly if it was his choice to leave. In that case she may be not wanting the dc to meet you as she may believe you'll be the first but not last of his relationships

anchor9 · 26/06/2017 11:20

mad? bitter? pigheaded?

careful.. you could be in this position one day (presumably forever is what your DP and the EXW had in mind also..)

Peckwater · 26/06/2017 11:23

What notarehearsal said.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/06/2017 11:25

Has he ever had the children on his own? I think it might be an idea to explore staying elsewhere when he visits and have the children on his own. Maybe at the same place every time so they get used to it. Otherwise he is going to struggle to build a full relationship with them. It will also make it easier to then ask for them to come and visit him at your home. Yes it will cost more but I would consider it worth thinking about.

If your wedding is soon I think it's unrealistic to think that the children could come. They haven't met you, they're not used to staying with just their dad, so it's a big leap.

notarehearsal · 26/06/2017 11:26

And to add. My ex left me with slightly older children than your partner left his. I also didn't encourage contact with his next four live in relationships, two engagements and one marriage ( soon to be divorce!). One child met the first one once , the other met the Stb ex wife once! It didn't harm them

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:33

AssassinatedBeauty: He has looked after them on his own (when she travels for business), but in her house. Good idea re him staying elsewhere so they get used to it - will discuss this with him and suggest. Agree wedding may be too soon - didn't want the kids to think they couldn't be involved if they wanted to, but guess it's way too early for that atm.

notarehearsal: Marriage mutually ended because both weren't happy. They got married waaaay too quickly (after being together for 6 months - she got pregnant after 2!). Know what you're getting at, but as he and I have now been together for longer than their entire relationship, not exactly a quick fling. Am genuinely committed to doing the best thing for everyone here - just makes me sad that it has to be this way I guess. Have good relationships with my step parents and seems sad to be in this situation. Could understand if their relationship ended because he cheated/met me etc, but as I see it he/I have done nothing wrong and are trying to muddle through as best we can.

OP posts:
DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings · 26/06/2017 11:36

You be been together longer than their entire relationship? But their kids are 7 and 5?

Loopyloppy · 26/06/2017 11:38

I'm shocked at the responses here.

It's absolutely his right to say the children meet you.

If it were a father saying his ex wife's new husband was never allowed to meet the children I think we'd be seeing a different response.

And of course you want to be part of their lives, and I think they would benefit.

RunRabbitRunRabbit · 26/06/2017 11:39

I have the sneaking suspicion that you are broody.

His children don't need a stepmother. They've got a mother and a father. They are well-cared for. They are loved. Why should they be bothered about some woman their dad spends time when he's not with them? How would they be losing out by not knowing you? Are you going to be a super disney step mother who they adore? Got plans for how it will be?

Maybe she realises the relationship will end as soon as you have children? I mean, he started a relationship with you when he had tiny children and was merely separated. You say he is doting but he doesn't do any of the difficult work with them does he? He bailed right at the hardest time and was living with someone else within a year while she had to manage day to day life with two toddlers. I can see why she wouldn't see you as permanent or as a beneficial influence on the children.

Ultimately, it isn't special for the children to know you. When they are older and stay with you then they can choose to meet daddy's squeeze. They might be spectacularly uninterested though.

I met my dad's girlfriend after many years. She's nice enough. I am happy he has someone. I am mostly uninterested though. I'm not in the market for a stepmother. Maybe his kids aren't either.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:39

DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings: Not spoken to her - would be open to meeting her and discussing the situation but know she'd refuse...

OP posts:
Loopyloppy · 26/06/2017 11:39

Doesanyonereadyhesethings- ironic name seeing as you've clearly not read ops posts properly. Hmm

Adora10 · 26/06/2017 11:40

At 5 and 7 I don't think they are losing out by not meeting you OP, you're basically just their dad's girlfriend, that might change once you get married and they have grown more but you are not going to win a fight with this lady, I'd leave it well alone.

He's very heavily involved if he stays over at her place, I'd not rock the boat for the kids sake.

user1498466918 · 26/06/2017 11:41

DoesAnyoneReadTheseThings: They split up when the kids were 3 and 1...she got pregnant v quickly after they met hence the short-ish relationship.

OP posts:
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