Am I being unreasonable? Or is this woman literally the most pig-headed person in the world?

[user1498466918]

Bit of a long one here – sorry!

I met my fiancee when he was separated from his then-wife, with whom he has two kids. When we met they'd been living apart for a few months and were planning a divorce.

When we got together he told me about his situation, and explained that although he doesn't get on well with her, she's agreed to let him see the kids whenever he wants (she insisted on full custody when they split - saying that he could see them whenever he likes. He didn't have enough money to fight this and she's been as good as her word). He is a doting father.

After we'd been dating for a few months (while the divorce was being finalised) she agreed to let me meet their kids (now 7 and 5). She then abruptly changed her mind the day I was due to meet them. I was a bit frustrated by the whole situation (was weird never having met them and being in love with their father/hearing so much about them from him) but wanted to see things from her point of view and had only been with him for a few months anyway.

I assumed that she'd mellow with time. WRONG! Fast forward FOUR years (we've been living together for the last three).

Due to her demanding job, she lives abroad with the kids, and he visits them several times a year and Skypes them a few times a week. This is hardly ideal, but her work requires it and it works for now.

Things are always very awkward between them (the moment the kids go to bed they stop talking and ignore each other) but the kids seem to be happy and absolutely adore their dad.

She, however, has remained bitter to the last, refusing to let me meet them as this was just him being "selfish" and "not putting the kids first." We recently got engaged, and he messaged her to give her the news before it was made public so she'd have time to digest. From what I can see, he has really tried at every point to be amicable for the sake of the children, but she is having none of it.

Anyway, you'd think that now we were getting married I could meet the kids, but ... nope. Apparently she still "doesn't see how they could possibly benefit" from meeting me. He's tried explaining that I am a huge part of his life, am here to stay and that the kids could only benefit from getting to know me as I'LL BE AROUND FOR EVER, but she is having none of it. He is understandably really upset about this, but doesn't know what can be done apart from seek legal action and get joint custody rights (he's worried that if he goes against her wishes she can stop him from seeing the kids).

So what do I do? I've really REALLY tried seeing things from her point of view over the last few years, but this feels pretty absurd now. I mean, how can their kids not benefit from knowing such a large part of their fathers' life? And how will they feel when they find out that their mother has refused to allow them to meet their stepmother? Won't they be upset to not be involved in the wedding? Wouldn't it have been better to grow up knowing me rather than suddenly being told about me xxx years down the line?

What can I do? Am I being mad here? Is this woman as mad/bitter as I think, or am I being unreasonable?

Tips/ideas appreciated.

Thanks :)

I absolutely agree it should be gradually Assassinated beauty.
Again Swedish do you know these kids personally as you know their thoughts and feelings? And no its not only the OP not getting what she wants its the kids father.

I agree with Swedish- if they was only together a couple of years after having children and he was a SAHD it strengthens his case (legally). Is there any possibility he will be able to reason with her? If not can he get any legal help? I'm not sure how custody arrangements can be worked out as I'm not sure of the distances involved but if he loves his kids and wants to be part of their life then there must be something he can do to make sure it happens.

I'm a human lottie, we can do empathy.

So I'm a 7 year old girl, do I want to go to another country to stay with a strange woman so my dad can 'share his life with me'. Nope.

I'm sure the OP is doing her best and is trying to do what she thinks is best for her partner but there's something fishy in the back story.

I would imagine that the legal issues surrounding residency and access across two different countries could be very tricky. Plus, even if he is granted some level of residency, how on earth can that actually be achieved? It would have to be time during school holidays only otherwise you'd totally disrupt their schooling.

Runrabbit
I think you're being very harsh on the op.
It isn't all about the dc meeting her for her own sake, it's about the dc having a meaningful relationship with their father where they are actually aware of what his life is, and which includes his soon to be wife! It's probably impractical too, for these current arrangements to continue into the future. If Op and dad are going to be married soon, they may well start a family themselves. Will the original dc never meet the new dc? Will dad be able to take the amount of holiday leave from his job, and how will this impact on his new children, if he has to travel abroad to see them separately in the strange little bubble that is the current arrangement?
The ex wife is just wetting him up to lose contact with his dc at some stage, and it seems possible that she only allows it now as it's convenient to her. He needs to stop staying at her house now. Maybe he could actually take them for a holiday away but still in their country of residence for at least part of the time and stay in a local hotel the rest of the time, and build upon that. I think he probably need s to get legal advice to firm up the contact arrangements as it sounds as though exw won't be amenable to changes.

If you want to reverse sexes lets ask this.

I'm a stay at home mother. I've got a 1 and three year old and my husband works long hours. He wants custody and to move abroad.

Do I let that happen?

How is that he has ended up living in a different country to his children? Either he left them to move back to the UK or he allowed them to go without putting up a fight after being their main carer. Whichever way it happened, he sounds a bit useless tbh.

Yes you should of course be allowed to meet them but if he didn't stand up to her when it came to living in the same country as his children he is unlikely to fight her on this.

Sorry you think I'm being a bit harsh, but, honestly, I'm not. Many of my friends have got divorced and there has been ample time and opportunity for them to come to agreements about the children's residence. This is done through a Parenting Plan or mediation at very little cost. If the couple don't agree then it gets taken to court - and no-one is allowed to leave the country with the DC in the meantime! Courts are more and more inclined towards awarding 50/50 custody - especially as the DC were so young and your fiancé had been the SAHP for at least part of their short lives!

He didn't do any of this very standard planning for contact with his DC. It's bemusing, and in my opinion, either spineless, or he just doesn't give much of a shit about his kids. Your choice of you want to marry him knowing that or not - since you don't want kids of your own then it might not be a deal breaker.

I was a 7 year old girl who very much wanted to go to a different county and spend time with my Mum and new partner. I was actually very excited about it. It broke my Dad's heart but he let me do it eventually because he put me first.

Although I agree maybe you going over there and getting to know them would be less overwhelming.

Are you sure that they have actually split up? You have never met or spoken to his ex or the children and he stays at her house when he visits. Sounds like he could be living a double life to me. Be very careful.

Really Swedish?
Why do the kids have to travel to meet op, I think she's quite capable of traveling with her partner and meeting them in their country?

Does she maybe see you as the other woman and the fact you arrived on the scene prevented their reconciliation, she maybe thought they were on a temp split? Her not wanting to recognise you would indicate to me there is more to this story than a mutual and happy split. I suspect she thinks you ended her marriage. That's the usual reason women behave like this. They seldom behave like this in a mutual and amicable split.

If she is holding you responsible for the permanent end to her marriage, she may never accept you and you will simply have to wait for the kids to reach an age where they wish to meet you and ask to do so.

Lexiloo that was my thoughts when I read the first post but from the way the op has worded things she's seen messages and heard phone calls between them and net his parents. If she hasn't though I,d be very suspicious in her position.

The OP hasn't specified whether dad returned to UK as he couldn't stay after divorce (visa) or whether he let his exw leave UK with the kids.

Court + self representation = access and not a lot of £

Not meeting you at the moment I suppose is normal if she lives abroad and he visits them at her house. However, it does seem like your husband should have been fighting for joint custody and not let her move them abroad. I think the issue is that she has full power over everything including when he sees the children and who he introduces them to. If they had joint custody that would not be the case. It is up to him to fight this in court if she won't be accommodating.

OP, I can't help feel that your DP has been extremely passive in all this.

When he and his ex split (and two accidental pregnancies two years apart in a new and apparently already faltering relationship sounds unlikely to me, tbh), he would have had no problem at all getting a 50/50 split residency, especially if he'd been the children's primary carer and a SAHP for some of that time. This would have been straightforward and inexpensive. So to say his ex 'insisted on full custody', rendering him powerless to do anything but accept her terms, is nonsense.

The other time when he could have exercised his PR is to prevent her leaving the country with the children for her job -- again, he chose not to do this, and now he is in fact stuck in a position in which he has very few rights, with his children abroad in a foreign jurisdiction. I'm not sure what options he now has as regards legal action. How long is it since they left the country?

Are you in fact feeling bad because your DP has not been more proactive about being the fully-involved parent he could have been? I can't decide from your posts whether you are just irritated that you feel his ex is dissing your relationship after all these years by not letting the children meet you, or whether you have doubts about a yoking yourself to man who got together with you shortly after walking out on a one and three year old, and whose main form of communication with his still-young children is via Skype?

I'm shocked at some of the responses here.

It's absolutely his right to say the children meet you.

If it were the other way around, posters would be saying that the RP has noi right to say who her kids spend time with when they're with the NRP.

And of course you want to be part of their lives, and I of course they would benefit.

MN is mad sometimes.

How very sad for the dad and the children to have their lives dictated by the ex. I think he should definitely stay elsewhere when he visits. He should take lots of photos of his home and you, talk about the wedding, tell them he wished they could come (perhaps add it's too far or something rather than blame their mum), tell them when they're older, if they want, they would be welcome to visit. Other than that just have fun with them, let them grow up loving him and their time with him. Probably as they grow up they will want to go and will notice if their mother prevents them. She can only control for so long before it comes back to bite her..

I agree with Peck.
The OP's fiancée has been too passive. He allowed the status quo to be she- says- jump-he-says-how-high for years so she will naturally want to preserve this.

Lexiloo I must admit I wondered that too. From the DCs' pov they may not realise their parents are separated.
On the surface, OP, it doesn't seem UR to want them to know about you.
But, in practice, they get little time with their DF. There are probably vast parts of his life that they don't really think about including his home, his work, his partner. When time is precious, it's probably more focused on the DCs than on your DP telling them about him. Introducing you into the middle of Skypes and holidays, just gives them even less time with their DF.

What I want to know is: do they know about you?

Does your fiancé talk about you to them? Do you send them over presents? Are you an entity in their lives even anecdotally?

Or are you a secret to be hushed up?

Don't know what parallel universe some posters exist in.

The children should grow up only knowing their father in a strange little artificial bubble controlled by their mother. Hello. And how is that positive for them? Just how?

And ' they won't be interested' .

Nobody is saying that spiney, the children live with their mother abroad, the father usually visits there and stays over, it's not like they are 50/50 sharing the childcare.